if only there was a face-palm emoji on this forum...
I wish there was a "face-desk" FONT we could use on the internet. Some people make the most ridiculous arguments to push their opinions. It blows my mind when these are opinions and arguments from people in respected scientific fields.
which is why I avoid arguments on the internet
They say that because they cannot say that "access to guns has been linked to an increase in overall crime" and keep the statement true. Britain is considering banning knives now because their homicide rate sans guns continues to rise, so much so that Birmingham's has at this point eclipsed Chicago's. Hell even over here where they are plentiful more people are attacked with baseball bats.
@Philosophus Vagus Ah, that explains things... I was talking with someone from the UK and they linked me to a video that stated exactly what I quoted. Just... what? If people want to commit crimes, they'll commit them. If someone wants you dead, they'll find a way to do it. I mean, more deaths in the world are linked to "improvised" weapons than knives and guns.
I mean of course you're never going to stop crime. There will always be sick people that go to any length to hurt others. It's more about making it less easy. People usually give up if something is inconvenient. Like how your car is more likely to get broken into if you leave it unlocked vs locking it. Same with guns. If theyre easy to get, theyre easy to use.
I don't really subscribe to that argument for anything. Poison is amazingly easy to obtain at any common store... yet... people don't poison each other all that much. Why? It's fairly impersonal. Likewise, if someone really wants to break into your car, like 45% of it is made of easily broken glass and people ignore car alarms.
A locked door really just keeps the teenagers out, as they're fairly "low effort" people most of the time. They open a door, take a few things, and back out. The ease at which a crime is accomplished has little to do with how often it occurs in most cases. Assault is remarkably easy to carry out... but it doesn't happen all that much except in certain circumstances.
A couple years ago, there was this girl who took a pocket knife to school and managed to stab like 23 students in the halls and most of them didn't even know they'd been stabbed until they'd gotten to class and were bleeding. It was pretty difficult to track the stabbings back to her and was only done because of CCTV in the school. People want to hurt you, they find a way.
I've been saying it for years and I'll keep saying it: violent crime is largely a mental health issue. Fix the heath care system, and this kind of stuff will slow down.
*mod hat on* Reminder everyone, no politics here. If it gets out of hand we'll delete the status. Just a friendly reminder, so far it looks ok.
Now the question is, is it illegal access to guns or legal access to guns that is the problem? Also, is it mental health related? Is there anything bigger going on in society that is driving such hatred, that would cause mentally unwell people to snap? Lots of questions. I don't think it's as simple as banning guns - just as you wouldn't ban water due to drowning victims.
Lots of mass shooters seem to want to make political statements in a way that will gain them lots of media coverage, in order to spread their infamy around the globe. And it seems to be working.
That is why mass shooters use guns, and not poison. Guns are more boisterous and arguably more scary (though a mass-poisoning would also be quite terrifying, wouldn't it?). A mass shooting strikes fear into people... which is what I believe the shooters want to happen.
When it comes to normal shootings (non-mass shootings), guns are still a more immediate way to kill (I think; are there immediate-killing poisons?), and all you do is pull the trigger. I think a loud BANG and seeing the victim fall to the ground makes killers feel more powerful than a poisoning would.
I don't mean to spam but I just want to clarify: no, guns don't kill people immediately most of the time, either. What I meant is that it gets more immediate results.
Also, it seems there are plenty of poisons that kill within minutes. I don't know how easy they are to get versus getting a gun. I still think that there's something about a gun that attracts killers more than buying poisons.
"If people want to commit crimes, they'll commit them." Guns though make a criminal more capable and effective if goes for mass murder. Owning legally a gun has one flaw. If you give power to someone stupid, stupid things happen. That is a general rule, related but not limited to guns really. Ban guns? If you ask me, for it or against it, I am for it, but that's just me.
To ban guns bans good people from owning guns in order to protect themselves and their families. Remember: criminals don't follow the law. The only way to really prevent gun crimes is to do what Japan did: ban them and take them all away EARLY. Japan did it as soon as it could, and now no one in Japan has any access to guns period. In the US, that is impossible. There are more guns than there are people.
Yeah no doubt, it is a very complex situation. In the States things are really strange and complicated. I guess you can own ONE gun if needed, but not a whole armory.
@Dreadshadow guns make anyone more capable and effective, though, not just mass murderers. They are called "the great equalizers" for a reason. Put a woman next to a 20-something thug and the thug can do what he wants. Give them both knives or 2x4s and the woman has the potential to defend herself but more likely than not unless the woman is far more technically skilled then the thug can do what he wants.
Give both a gun and in all liklihood the thug is gonna turn tail when he realizes she is armed. This happens far more frequently than most realize. Statistically guns are used defensively far more often than offensively. In any given year there are an average of 10k homicides with firearms in the U.S. In the same given year the most pessimistic estimate posits that they are used more than 500k times for defense.
@Dreadshadow The argument against people owning guns has always been "they're dangerous". Lots of things are dangerous, yet we're allowed to own them. More people die a year from car accidents than shootings or stabbings. But, nobody is seeking to ban cars or to keep idiots from owning them.
There are typically two reasons for using a gun. The first is that most people don't carry one on them, so it's an immediate advantage and those without the gun have a fear response. Automatic power trip just from wielding it. Two is because it is hard to ignore or simply a "fire and forget" type weapon where criminals assume you're dead just because you're shot.
Guns are rarely used because they are "most effective". In most crimes, the use of a gun makes you easier to track down and apprehend. It's usually an admission that you don't care about getting caught. That's not even getting into the issue where the countries that have banned guns have some of the highest gun crime rates in the world.
The reason "guns" get so much attention is because of the way popular media has almost deified them. If someone owns a gun and waves it at you, and you do not have a gun, you comply with every demand. Because you are helpless without one. This is why there's a push to "ban" guns. Simply for the fear. Not because it's practical or sane in any way.
I'd posit that if everyone owned a gun and there was a good chance that the person you threated with one could/would shoot you back, or shoot you first... There's a lot less shootings. I mean, the "Wild West" in the United States proved that. There were remarkably few "shoot outs" and "shootings" during that period despite everyone owning a gun.
Actually, I'd argue that the reason most gun owners use a gun is for hunting or for self-defense. Or for suicide (iirc, most gun deaths in US are actually from suicide).
In regards to everyone having a gun... doesn't Texas have a lot of people who carry? And I'm sure they have less gun deaths than Illinois (home of Chicago).
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