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Finnuval

but can you become older without being elder?

Kes

@Finnuval Oh yes you can. Getting older is obligatory. Becoming an adult is optional. Some people choose not to.

Kes

@SOC I'm a bit dubious about the statement. Logically it doesn't stand up (when you become an elder you are older than you were before you became one). It also puts me in mind of something I used to hear quite often "If you want to know something, ask your teenage son while he still knows everything." Sorry for the gendered nature of the saying, I simply quote it.

SOC

Nah, it's just an expression meaning you don't have to have physical "aging" symptoms quite the same way as we believed we had to have in the past. The idea of being 80+ years old in diapers, relying on others to take care of us in a nursing home and staying in wheelchairs is all optional if you take care of your self correctly. You can be old and wise with a much healthier, vibrant, "younger" body.

Kes

"All optional if you take care of yourself correctly" is simply not true. To take just a couple of obvious examples - motor neuron disease, multiple scelrosis, early onset dementia are not caused by failure to take care of yourself properly. To suggest otherwise is simplistic, and demonstrates a lack of knowledge of the most recent research.

Kes

Everyone, of course, has a responsibility to take care of their health. But when one considers the mounting evidence of a genetic component in many diseases and conditions, it is clear that self care is not sufficient by itself.

Sharm

As someone who has been sick since I was 7, and am currently bedridden and completely dependant on my family at 40, I completely disagree with your opinion SOC. I work harder at my health than anyone else I know, and I have my whole life. The current state of my body is not optional, and coming to terms with my lack of control over this situation is one of the most difficult things I've ever had to face in my life.

bgillisp

Let's see how that works out for you in 50 years. Let's just say that statistics are NOT on your side.

SOC

lol, I've had chronic health issues my whole life too, but you're free to believe what you want to believe. Lots of conditions mentioned here are optional and can be fully reversed. Remember, genes load the gun, but environment pulls the trigger. Control your environment so that the genes making you susceptible aren't firing.

SOC

Statistically speaking, it's very likely we will be seeing massive changes in technology that allows us to push far beyond the "120" years of age. You ask any decent expert and they'll all say "there is no current limit to how long humans can actually live," and that's before this technology. Do what you can now to set your self up for as much success as possible.

SOC

Regardless, don't belittle your selves (or others) or their power to control how their health expresses. There's way more we can do now than ever before, and must, due to how toxic our world is currently. Genes are a very minor role in the grand scheme of things, and believing that they're the "end all be all nothing I can do it's just genetics" is very limiting and frankly, untrue.

Sharm

You're blowing everything way out of proportion. Those people who think there's no current limit to age are also betting on science that doesn't exist yet. We're aware of the problem that needs to be solved to get there, but it hasn't actually been solved yet. They're also not talking about everyone, they're talking about the fraction of people who, by luck and willpower alone, somehow live longer than others.

Sharm

As for long life, there's been huge, long running scientific studies about it. Guess what? Environmental factors don't play a very large part in it. That factor is almost negligible.

Sharm

Secondly, long life and quality of life are completely separate factors. You can't just lump them together and act like it's the same thing. Environmental factors and genetics work together to create both pros and cons for quality of life.

Sharm

Those things, though? They haven't all been solved. We don't know why or how all sorts of things happen. The stuff we know about the brain, for example, is all completely throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. How it actually works, we haven't a clue.

Sharm

I am doing everything in my power to overcome my problems, I have researched, changed my environment, my diet, my friends, my mental frame of mind, anything that might bring me down. But I still get worse because that's the nature of my illness. You belittling my efforts is frankly a huge insult. I can, at best, slow the rate of it's progression and it is taking every ounce of my effort.

Sharm

It's not wrong to take care of yourself and get excited about the scientific breakthroughs that make things better for humanity, but it's so limited to think you know everything about any subject. That's not enlightenment, that's pride.

Kes

There are some environmental factors over which you have no control which impact heavily on health. Breathing polluted air (e.g. diesel particulates) has been demonstrated to impact lungs, brain development in children and the development of dementia. If you live in a big city you cannot escape it. That is not reversible, not amenable to self care solutions. Either you breath it or you don't breath at all.

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