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gstv87
gstv87
RTS games probably make you play as the antagonist.
you never know, maybe that empire you just toppled was meant to become the savior of all humanity, and now everyone is ruled by your military dictatorship.
who knows!
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Poryg
Poryg
@The Stranger In your story you are the protagonist, but you are still the antagonist in the world, y'know, so not entirely impossible.
ex0rc1sm
ex0rc1sm
I think antagonist refers to the character that opposes the protagonist, it's possible to play a morally ambiguous or villainous protagonist with a hero that is their antagonist. The hero would see you as their antagonist if you were to play as them.
There is the Anti-hero, but they aren't necessarily villainous.
The Stranger
The Stranger
Yeah, antagonist has no defined morals, and simply refers to someone, or something, that acts in opposition to the protagonist. You can be the villain protag, but never the antag if the story is about you and is from your perspective.
DarkSpectre
DarkSpectre
I wish you could put spoilers in comments. Lol. All I'm Going to say is Dark Messiah by Might & Magic. Best plot twist ever!
Poryg
Poryg
I have found a definition of "antagonist" as someone, who opposes someone. In a story it's the main opponent, but according to that definition it could be possible to use as someone, who is against something. But guess I should have used "villain" instead.
The Stranger
The Stranger
@Poryg An antagonist doesn't even need to be a character, it can also be an emotion, a natural disaster, or something else entirely. You can be a villainous protagonist, though. In the Overlord games you play as a Dark Lord in a fantasy setting, even if the game is more comical than serious. Tyranny is also about being the bad guy, but I never really felt like one. lol.
Poryg
Poryg
Tyranny is a joke in this aspect. Since it focuses heavily on its rpg elements, the story is irrelevant and you could just be a hero trying to save the day. I like the evil aspect of the from the sound of it, so maybe one day I'll buy it and perhaps even play it.
Poryg
Poryg
I also prefer the more lighthearted approach to evil instead of the "I will destroy the world" type, although as long as it'd be well-made, I would play even serious titles. But... A villain needs to be relatable to be taken seriously, so his motives must be something a sane person would do. Robin Hood type pillaging, paying off debts, vengeance,...
ex0rc1sm
ex0rc1sm
@Poryg I agree, the best villains are the ones who do not see themselves as evil, but someone who believes their actions to be the correct choice, despite being immoral or unjust. They have their own ambitions and challenges, as does the protagonist. I dislike villains who desire world domination, especially without any believable reason why they are motivated to do so.
ex0rc1sm
ex0rc1sm
Although, I disagree that the motives must be something a sane person would do. They could be a very irrational and delusional individual, and their motives could reflect that. But to them their motives are sane, and there should be a reason why.
Poryg
Poryg
Irrational/delusional means stupid, not not sane. If I give concrete examples of real life actions, robbing a bank is quite a standard, if you can get away with it. But someone has tried to rob a gun store. Needless to say, he did not make it alive as 5 people shot him to death. The only things that'd justify such foolishness are: no fear of death, desperation, experience, overestimation or taken precautions.
Poryg
Poryg
Of course someone can work their way from robbing banks to robbing gun stores, get overconfident (known as Napoleonic complex) and shot to death. But that's at least some character progression. In a lot of games the Evil one tries to conquer the entire world at once instead of conquering it piece by piece without even a conscise plan against random mighty heroes approaching.
ex0rc1sm
ex0rc1sm
Hmm, I don't think irrational/delusional is the same as stupid. If someone has an irrational fear/ delusions of grandiose, it wouldn't be accurate to imply those are unintelligent conditions. Lacking a fear of death, among other reasons, can provide a better explanation for things that would otherwise be overlooked as stupid. Take Batman's Joker, a villain who is the personification of the irrational, and not sane.
ex0rc1sm
ex0rc1sm
(My example would depend on which Joker. Heath Ledger's Joker in The Dark Knight is arguably very rational)
Poryg
Poryg
Usually you don't use "irrational" as in "irrational fear", just like "delusional" is used for when you think something is different than what it obviously is. So "irrational" and "delusional" as terms are quite close to stupid. If you say "irrational fear", you call it either paranoia, phobia or schizophrenia.
Poryg
Poryg
As for Joker, he is an unique case. He is clinically insane. Has no motivations, does things just because. But he works as a villain, because he is a mastermind. He is always one step ahead of Batman. And that is a sane action. He doesn't put himself in uncalculated danger or let himself be killed stupidly. And when he is killed by Batman... He knows he has won.
ex0rc1sm
ex0rc1sm
Irrational means not thinking logically or reasonably, delusional means having thoughts or ideas that contradict reality. These things are not synonymous with stupidity.
I agree, the Joker is a mastermind. He does not let himself be killed stupidly. But he is subject to delusional thinking, and irrational behaviour. But he is by no mean unintelligent. That is why I used him for my example.
The Stranger
The Stranger
Yeah, irrational and delusional do not mean the same thing as stupid. Not even close. Delusions of grandeur do not make someone stupid, but their delusions likely conflict with reality. Irrational fears (phobias) aren''t the same as paranoia and schizophrenia; schizophrenia being a very specific psychiatric problem.
The Stranger
The Stranger
Anyone can become paranoid, anyone can develop irrational and deluded beliefs, but these things don't make a person stupid.

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