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The Mighty Palm
The Mighty Palm
Justice would've been to marry one of his daughters and execute her. But the tyranny probably isnt worth it. Gonna purge his entire house? Hunt down every living member and strike them down?
Poryg
Poryg
Careful, "revenge" does not equal "justice". If someone kills your daughter, killing theirs is not justice. It does not punish the criminal in any way. It's merely revenge on the innocent. Killing them would be justice. Making them suffer would be justice. Unfortunately though, he is a high ranking member of the Hashashin, so that ain't possible.
Poryg
Poryg
So I chose to make him suffer. I don't think I can take his remaining territory though, he still has three emirates and we're both old. I'm 66 and infirm, he is incapable and ready to die. But well... My granddaughter will surely carry the message to the future. I just need to deal with some internal power struggles before I die.
The Mighty Palm
The Mighty Palm
If we're talking the medieval judicial system then a daughter for a daughter is quite fair. An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. Maybe not just by modern standards, but medieval I'd say yes.
Kupotepo
Kupotepo
@Poryg, how are you? I do not see a long time. Do you play CK too? In the middle age, royal intermarriage is a sign of trust and ensure peace between two kingdoms. However,you prefer in the game to execute hair to the thorn.
Poryg
Poryg
Nah, eye for an eye was not medieval. Eye for an eye was ancient, it was Confucianist philosophy. Medievals already knew that eye for an eye only makes the world blind... So they punished the criminal directly even if the execution was sometimes quite cruel. But well... Humane execution wasn't really too thought of until certain mr. Guillotine.
Poryg
Poryg
@Kupotepo I never execute my heirs if they're my direct family. Since I play as Muslim, I don't even need to - the Open inheritance law allows me to choose my heir from my offspring. But that was not even me executing her, it was someone who asked to marry her just 5 days prior to it.
Kupotepo
Kupotepo
@Poryg,ok, you create a plot to assassinate right. Can female become a ruler in the muslim kingdom in CK? I do not that far yet.
Poryg
Poryg
By default Islam has an unchangeable inheritance law. Agnatic open. That means only men sons can inherit. It's meant to simulate the Turkish inheritance law, where one son inherited all and then every other son was murdered.
Kupotepo
Kupotepo
@Poryg, thanks for letting me know. What if the ruler/murder inherited, then he has to kill all of his brothers. Such horrible to line of Ottoman succession because you are going to be killed or you have to your own brothers. That is a dog eat dog world.
The Mighty Palm
The Mighty Palm
Eye for an eye is from Hammurabi's code. Its not confucianism, though the idea may also be present there.
The Mighty Palm
The Mighty Palm
And in medieval Christian europe, no, eye for an eye would not be common. Sippenhaft was a thing, but not for christianity (christ condemns the law in the book of Matthew) but in medieval Islam yes, sharia law includes eye for an eye.
Poryg
Poryg
@Kupotepo Yup, that is why in CK2 if you have Open succession law, you automatically have -20 opinion towards brothers and -40 to half-brothers in Islam. Then in Pagan enatic open it's the same between women.
Poryg
Poryg
@The Mighty Palm Not exactly. In medieval ages Muslims were especially cruel in their capital punishments and the biggest acts of treason were punished by either being cooked alive in a cauldron, or by being thrown to birds alive. This would be one of the cases of such punishments. But Islam was a religion of purity, it would not justify revenge on innocent people. Even if they were women.
Poryg
Poryg
Although it's true that "eye for an eye" was never taken literally, social status was always looked at too. A noble wouldn't get as punished for acts against a slave and slave would get harsher punishment. Now since both of us were Sultans, he would probably get no punishment for what he did. Who would dare oppose a Sultan?
Poryg
Poryg
But I was a Sultan too and what he did was insult my family. So he was a traitor in my realm and I could do whatever to him. But still, even though I would get away with punishing his daughters for it, it would do no justice. He insulted our family, so the conflict is already on personal level, not in "eye for an eye" level.
Kupotepo
Kupotepo
@Poryg, your amirs are still happy with your ruling. They are tries to rebelled somehow.
@The Mighty Palm, it is not term of word, but in term of act. Ask emperor Constantine, what he did to the Roman pagans after he converted? Revenge when you get an upper hand.
@Poryg, it is true that why if people do something terrible. They need get in power and crush any dissidents. Sad, but true.
The Mighty Palm
The Mighty Palm
The Mighty Palm
The Mighty Palm
Also according to Qisas you were in the wrong to avenge your daughter, as no punishment is to be given if the victim is the wife or child of the killer.
Poryg
Poryg
According to the wikipedia article you just posted: "According to most variations of Sharia, neither Qisas nor Tazir applies if a Muslim parent or grandparent kills their child[18] or grandchild,[40] or if the murder victim is a spouse with whom one has surviving children." There were no surviving children, the marriage lasted for 5 days.

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