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Tai_MT

@The Stranger You literally confused what I was saying with "I think Hard Sci Fi is the only Sci Fi". You continued to do so even after I told you that wasn't the case and that I wasn't even insulting "Soft Sci Fi". What I'm against is people who use "Sci Fi" in a poorly written way... in which their technology is basically magic. That's it. That's all.

Finnuval

Tone : style or manner of expression in speaking or writing. Yup, sure... Doesnt work like that despite it being defined like that.

Tai_MT

Honestly, the author decides the genre most of the time. They do so in order to get published. If you tell your publisher, "It's a Sci Book about...", they typically tell you whether or not they even want to publish that genre right then and there. It isn't as simple as, "uh, here's my book, please tell me the genre and then market it under that."

The Stranger

@Tai_MT Because you say you're not, but are doing exactly that. Sci-fi doesn't have to obey scientific consensus. It never has. I agreed with you that it needs to make sense. What I said to you was that explanation of tech isn't always important. We used the flying car as an example. It's rarely, if ever explained, but no one questions it.

Tai_MT

@Finnuval Considering I leave emotion largely out of my writing and tend to write in a "matter of fact" way, there usually isn't a tone unless you bring it with you... which would be reader's bias. Meaning, you read what I wrote, it upset you, so you decided to call it "condescending" for whatever psychological reason you came to that conclusion.

The Stranger

I said to you that sciencey sounding words and technobabble are often used as a way to handwave such things, and that's fine. If the tech isn't central to the plot, the reader doesn't care. Well, so long as it stays consistent. Thus, it may as well be magic. There's no difference at that point. The "grav car" has no connection with science at that point beyond simply being a futuristic object.

Tai_MT

@The Stranger I never said it had to obey scientific consensus. It needs to have some sort of explanation is all I said. With your flying car example, the details of its looks are often what provide that explanation. Back to the Future doesn't explain how the cars fly, but you can see some sort of propulsion system coming from the wheels, so you roll with it. It's not magic at that point.

Finnuval

Except you said in your own post after that it in fact was condescending.... Also I found the way you spoke to someone else condescending which isn't upsetting to me but hey, whatever storlline works for you I guess

Tai_MT

With Sci Fi, you just need to have the explanation reasonably grounded in some sort of science (present science or made up future science based on future rules of the universe we might not know yet). When Sci Fi doesn't have that explanation or grounding, it comes off as "magic". At which point, may as well write a Fantasy book instead of Sci Fi.

The Stranger

And is there a difference between the magical airship, complete with physical mechanisms for propulsion and steering, and the flying car? Not in my opinion. Neither have any connection to actual science, but both have explanations and logic in their settings. Neither are really explained to the reader.

Tai_MT

@Finnuval

Read the posts again. I admitted to the condescension in the post I made AFTER your accusation of it. That is, you accused me of it, I made my first condescending post, and then I admitted that condescending post was such. Meaning, you asserted personal bias before I ever did the act.

Finnuval

So the moment I explain my magic in a sciency way like say : energy converted through crystals as a conductor it is no longer fantasy but science fiction? (i mean lasers work similar) see the problem with your definition is it falls flat the moment you turn it around.

Tai_MT

@The Stranger

I think calling it "Magical Airship" kind of wrecks your argument there. By definition, "Magical Airship" wouldn't be Sci Fi. Just sayin'. Now, if you're talking just "An Airship", you could actually provide a reasonable explanation for its flight and maneuverability and such so that it would be Sci Fi. Which, you know, I wouldn't have an issue with.

The Stranger

Sci-fi can also use previous known science. It really doesn't matter when a story was written, the genre doesn't change because the science turned out to be bs. It can also be based purely on reader assumption of how things work. The author explains nothing of how tech works, it's just assumed to work because the tech isn't important to the plot.

Tai_MT

@Finnuval Man, you are really desperate to win an argument, aren't you? So much so that you're twisting my words to say things they aren't saying and constructing strawmen in the field to topple. Nope, I didn't say any of that, nor did I imply it anywhere. Try again please.

Tai_MT

@The Stranger Yep, I agree with that. Just because science turned out to be bunk, doesn't mean it isn't still Science Fiction.
To give an example of what I'm talking about hating:
A man wearing jeans and a t-shirt bails out an airlock wearing only a helmet. he can move freely in space and not die because... There's tech in that shirt and helmet that keep him from dying! But, it's not explained!

Tai_MT

@The Stranger That example is what I'm talking about. Things like that. Where "It could be tech", but it's probably actually just "magic". As in, it works because, "shut up, I say it does".

The Stranger

I fully agree that internal consistency, and not pulling things out of your arse, are important for good storytelling. If you've described something as doing one thing and only one thing, then it shouldn't suddenly be able to do something else just because. Anyway, it's 6am here. I can't stay up any longer discussing this. lol.

Tai_MT

Alright, have a good sleep man. Fun talking with you. Almost midnight here. I might crash too. Been exhausted since 4:00 today, but this status blew up, so I got engaged.

Finnuval

7am here but it was a good exercise xD

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