Comments on Profile Post by Dalph

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  2. Dark_Metamorphosis
    Dark_Metamorphosis
    Worst part is when people redistribute stolen materials (or ripped materials) and put it up for free on various site and doesn't say anything about where they ripped it from, or even saying that the content are their own.


    I had that with my game with icons and other graphics, when people that played my game spoke out and said that "those icons are from x commercial game" and even though I had no clue about it at the time, it really made me feel like sheep. I'm glad they spoke out though, cause now I have removed all of them, but at the time it still pissed me off a bit :p
    May 20, 2016
    3 people like this.
  3. bgillisp
    bgillisp
    I've never understood it either. Why go through the trouble to rip those resources? Why not just find something in the RTP that you can tolerate to look at for a few months? Or, even do my approach and mix the RTP/DS/DS+ sprites into a goulash as placeholders while you focus on the story, skills, and enemies? Sure, it will look awful, but what proof of concept doesn't? Plus, this way you can focus and make sure you really have a game that you can make before worrying about finding real graphics for the game.
    May 20, 2016
    5 people like this.
  4. Noct
    Noct
    38455.IPB
    May 20, 2016
    5 people like this.
  5. Victor Sant
    Victor Sant
    Except for the legality issue, I see no problem with that.


    My case for example, i never ever liked VX/Ace graphic style and no matter how many artist there were around, it would be hard (or expensive) to find one to make new graphic assets on a different style for a full game.


    So I would rather use RIPs than ever using VX/Ace charsets and tilesets. (and this is one of the reasons I never even tried to make a game on Ace, because i wouldn't use RIPs, but wouldn't use the stock graphic style either).


    On the audio aspect, there are musics that some people simply love and would like to use them.


    Yeah, there are some that are just lazy, but there are people that would use them simply because they like the style more than what anyone else is willing to offer.


    If there was a company that would say 'you can use ripped graphics from our games' and I liked those graphics, I would use rips all time. Well, this won't happen anyway.
    May 20, 2016
  6. Dark_Metamorphosis
    Dark_Metamorphosis
    @Victor Sant The biggest problem with rips (I talked about that in my previous post) is that no matter how good your game is these ripped materials will ALWAYS be attached to THAT franchise. Like I said, I stumbled upon ripped materials by accident with my game (Partly my fault too since I should have done a bit more resarch about the icons) but in less than 2 seconds, the people that recognized the icons attached them to X GAME in an instant, taking out any focus on my game.


    That is what will happen when people are using ripped material. Like said in previous statement, if someone is using FF 6 battle theme in their game will you think about their game or remember the good times you had in FF 6? I'm pretty sure it would be the latter. It doesn't just destroy the legal issue, but it also damages your game. People are not gonna take the game serious, or think about the game that the rips are related to. If you use RTP or any other rpg maker related graphic no one is gonna think about that BIG commercial game, even if It's used in a more succesful rpg maker title.


    Graphics and music will always be a problem, but ripping from big titles from big companies will only damage the game in the end, no matter what.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  7. Victor Sant
    Victor Sant
    @Dark_Metamorphosis Some people don't see this as a problem. It's not likely everyone is always wanting they game to feel unique and exclusive. Sometimes people just want them to be enjoyable, without caring much from what is the source.


    In my case I wouldn't mind people thinking about other games when playing mine, in fact sometimes I would even want it.


    On the only project I started on RMXP, I had a lot of references and homages, and it had a some RIPs (it was at a time that I didn't cared about legality as I do now) just because there was no fitting resource available. (At the RMXP time, there weren't much sideview monsters graphics available, in fact not even today we have many)
    May 20, 2016
  8. BloodletterQ
    BloodletterQ
    They were more popular during the 2000-2003 days I've thought when realistically those were pirated anyhow. We've advanced. It's even more annoying when the graphics are mixed.
    May 20, 2016
  9. taarna23
    taarna23
    I see a lot of excuses for using ripped resources. "I like the style." "Nothing fits my game that currently exists." "It's just a free game." "I'm just trying to get my idea out there."


    It doesn't matter. None of these matter. There's no reason or justification. It is theft, plain and simple. No matter how old, new, popular or obscure; no matter the "why" it was done, it is still theft. It's easy to gloss this over when the odds of repercussion are small, but you are still stealing someone else's work.


    Pretty easy when it's not the hard work of people you respect in a small community, right?
    May 20, 2016
    4 people like this.
  10. Dark_Metamorphosis
    Dark_Metamorphosis
    @Victor Sant True some people doesn't see this as a problem, but no matter how you look at it it will damage the game in a aspect, even out of story/gameplay/mechanics it will instantly be damaged without the player even knowing anything about the rest of the game. Why would people want to steal someone elses work, just to get the vision they have for the game, or wanting them to think about another game when they are playing yours? It first of all takes you out of the immersion of the game (I cant stand games that uses FF music for example, how am I supposed to focus on the game when Celes theme is playing and all I'm thinking about is Celes from FF6?) 


    Then again, a game is not instantly "enjoyable" just because you have familiar tunes or familiar graphics in there. In most cases these kinds of projects will only get unnecessary damage right off the bat, both in legal terms and in other areas, even if there are people that don't care about it.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  11. Dalph
    Dalph
    Doesn't matter how u look at it or what reasons do you have, ripping copyrighted resources is "wrong", as simple as that. Also there are many more styles besides Ace and MV:


    DS, TF, POP, Kaduki (for sprites only), PVGames, Celianna's style for her Farm tiles and many others on japanese blogs.


    And try to go commercial with rips, if your game will be popular enough you'll face legal problems for sure, a software house might ignore smaller projects but when something gets too big\successful they won't close their eyes anymore (look at Chrono Trigger Resurrection which was also labelled as fanmade).
    May 20, 2016
    3 people like this.
  12. Dark_Metamorphosis
    Dark_Metamorphosis
    And yes, my wording about "the biggest problems with rips" were a bit out of place. Of course the biggest issue is that It's plainly wrong to steal someone elses work, especially if you are not allowed to use them or if you credit them as your own. I should have said that "The biggest problem for ME as a player when I stumble upon projects that are using ripped materials is:"


    I still think that ripping tons of stuff into your game will only damage it in several ways though.
    May 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  13. Sharm
    Sharm
    I have a huge problem with rips (partially because people have done it to me with my art and to lots of other artists I know and consider to be friends, partially because it cuts into my ability to actually earn money on the stuff (dilution of brand is a real thing), partially a whole lot of other reasons), but I actually can understand the draw.  There's a lot of really beautiful artwork and music out there that begs to be played with, remixed and just explored in a way outside of it's original context.  So if you rip stuff just to goof off with or as some sort of proof of concept that you'll not be sharing with anyone except maybe the artist you hire, I'm actually fine with that. (I'd prefer to be paid and have money for groceries, but I get it.)  But the instant you use it in a published game (free or not) or share it on a resource site or something, use it as a base for your own artwork, or something like that, you're using it like you have some sort of claim of ownership on it, and that's where it stops being okay.  That's where it's not admiration, it's just selfishness and jealousy.
    May 20, 2016
    4 people like this.
  14. Matseb2611
    Matseb2611
    I can't stand rips, both from the moral standpoint and from the creative standpoint. Taking a resource from another game essentially destroys your game's identity, because you're using something that is affiliated with another game. Using that song from Final Fantasy doesn't make your game any better. It just makes your players remember how much they enjoyed FF and not have any emotional attachment to your game.
    May 20, 2016
    4 people like this.
  15. Victor Sant
    Victor Sant
    @Dark_Metamorphosis


    This "damage" you say is subjetive. It just a matter of personal feel, not a rule.


    Also, I never said that using ripped content automatically makes the game good, but the opposite is also true, using ripped content doesn't automatically makes you game worse, as you implying.


    The only valid argument against rips are the Legal Issues.


    Other than that is just a matter of personal feeling, there is no such "if you use Rips, your game is damaged and is worse, this is a rule".


    @Dalph™ Except for Kaduki and Celianna, most of them weren't available until Degica took RPG Maker.


    And most of them aren't enough to build a whole game.


    It's also funny you to mention DS... because they ARE ripped from RPG Maker DS.


    Just that they are a 'Legal Ripping", because it was done and provided by the ones who hold the copyright. This by itself shows that using 'ripped content' is not wrong, what is wrong is using 'copyrighted ripped content'. The bold part makes both statements total different things.


    'ripped content' and 'copyrigthed ripped content' are different things: the first is not wrong (because if this is wrong, dayum all DS resources owners, including myself), the second is a crime.
    May 20, 2016
  16. taarna23
    taarna23
    @Victor Sant Uhhh, no? The DS resource pack was created from scratch. That is a seriously WIDE field between ripped (original graphics taken directly from final released product) and recreated (made from scratch with, at least in this case I am assuming, the original creator's permission).
    May 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  17. Victor Sant
    Victor Sant
    @taarna23 they weren't redone 'from scratch' they were 'remasterized', using the original as base.


    Redone from scratch means that not even a pixel from the original was used, wich is obvious wasn't the case.
    May 20, 2016
  18. Sharm
    Sharm
    You're both wrong/right.  The DS artwork was taken from the DS version of RPG Maker.  The files came from Enterbrain, but whether they had the originals still or if they had to rip them from their own program, you'd have to ask Archeia.  A large portion of it, however, was made from scratch, plus there are huge modifications done to the original DS stuff to make it work in Ace.


    All that is semantics though, when people are talking about rips, they're not talking about the completely legal stuff.  No one cares about that.
    May 20, 2016
    3 people like this.
  19. taarna23
    taarna23
    @Victor Sant Obvious how, exactly? I'm pretty sure they were done from scratch because 24px tiles != 32px tiles and would scale extremely badly, as anyone that has tried to scale Ace tiles to MV can attest to. The best you get is "not bad." I'm sure @Archeia can tell you more, but I'd love to see your evidence on how it was not from scratch.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  20. taarna23
    taarna23
    Okay, Sharm beat me to it. I've personally compared the remade tiles to the original and most of them look nothing alike.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  21. Sharm
    Sharm
    Yeah, Archeia and a few other artists did a ton of work on them.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  22. taarna23
    taarna23
    @Sharm Pretty sure the original owners/creators providing them also places them outside the realm of rips. I suppose that one is open to opinion.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  23. Susan
    Susan
    To my knowledge, "ripping" means using resources from another game or other sources without knowledge and consent from the original creators.


    Having gotten permission to remake a resource pack from one format to another isn't "ripping" in this case.


    Having owned both RMXP and RMVXA, if I edited and rearranged RMXP's tiles and sprites to fit RMVXA's format, as well as changed the tracks format to be used in RMVXA, would it be considered "ripping"? If so, a lot of us will be in danger of being banned.


    There are also RM2k3 resources to utilize these days, now that the engine has been localised and legalised. ;)
    May 20, 2016
    4 people like this.
  24. Dalph
    Dalph
    I think Victor here doesn't realize that I'm talking the whole time about "ripping copyrighted materials here" (I even wrote it) so I don't understand what's the point of making that comparison. Speaking of which, adapting\re-creating from scratch with permission shouldn't be called "ripping" because I think it's insulting.


    Ripping (regarding digital things) basically means extraction without consent.
    May 20, 2016
    3 people like this.
  25. Sharm
    Sharm
    Victor is technically right in the definition, but it's a definition that almost never gets used to the point where using it the technically correct way is really misleading.  It's a bit like the term Hacking.  What most people think of as hacking is really slashing, but no one uses that term at all, everyone uses the term hacking, and hacking is always used to mean the illegal stuff, not the legal stuff.
    May 20, 2016
  26. Victor Sant
    Victor Sant
    @Susan Ripping has nothing to do with legality. Ripping is just the act of copying a content from a media (game, music, video...) and storing it.
    May 20, 2016
  27. Victor Sant
    Victor Sant
    @Dalph™



    I will never understand about why people use rips in their games when there are a lot of great artists and composers around, I find that so annoying and insulting at the same time.


    Sorry, didn't notice the mention to copyright on the text, maybe because they aren't present.
    May 20, 2016
  28. taarna23
    taarna23
    @Victor Sant Considering most games/programs/apps/services/what-have-you contain a EULA that prohibits you from doing exactly this, I beg to differ.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  29. Victor Sant
    Victor Sant
    Most is not 'all"
    May 20, 2016
  30. taarna23
    taarna23
    @Victor Sant Cool. Find me some that don't, and we can go from there.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  31. Victor Sant
    Victor Sant
    Show me the 'EULA' from any game from NES please.
    May 20, 2016
  32. Sharm
    Sharm
    What exactly is the point you're trying to make, Victor?  If it's that not all rips (by your prefered definition) are bad, then no one is arguing with you on that.
    May 20, 2016
  33. Susan
    Susan
    @Sharm & @Victor Sant: Sorry for misunderstanding what "rips" mean. That was my understanding based on forum rule 2.6, and what I've seen floating around the internet, since "rips" were always associated with unauthorised extraction of resources from other games, especially popular, commercialised games such as those from SquareSoft in the days of pre-legalised RM. Thanks for your correction. :)
    May 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  34. Victor Sant
    Victor Sant
    @Sharm On the start of the discussion there was a generalizaion that in short was 'using rips = bad'. not 'using copyrigthed rips = bad', this difference is very sensible


    People should be more careful with generalization.
    May 20, 2016
  35. Sharm
    Sharm
    Not a problem.  The forum rules are referring to rips by your definition and like I was trying to say, most people don't even know the real definition.  Since the purpose of words is communication, I don't see the point of using that definition anymore.
    May 20, 2016
  36. Dalph
    Dalph
    Dalph™



    Doesn't matter how u look at it or what reasons do you have, ripping copyrighted resources is "wrong", as simple as that. Also there are many more styles besides Ace and MV:

    @Victor Sant:


    Do you see it now?
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  37. Susan
    Susan
    It's going to be a mouthful to say "unauthorised copyrighted material extraction and use" from now on. XD
    May 20, 2016
    3 people like this.
  38. JCBrickston
    JCBrickston
    Whoa, haha. I logged back on the site and my notifications were off the charts! This is one busy thread!


    Listen to the little critter beneath me. He speaks the truth.

    38473.IPB
    May 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  39. taarna23
    taarna23
    One generally needs to define things based on the community they are part of. In this community, the generally accepted usage of the word "ripped" when referring to resources is, as Susan so succinctly stated, "the unauthorised copyrighted material extraction and use." To say that you will define "ripped" differently because you see it differently and then not expect there to be miscommunication and confusion is somewhat foolish.
    May 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  40. Susan
    Susan
    @JCBrickston: That's so accurate in my case, you have no idea. XD


    http://previews.123rf.com/images/foodandmore/foodandmore1304/foodandmore130400224/19271412-Italian-pizza-with-tomato-topped-with-melted-golden-cheese-herbs-and-basil-served-on-a-round-wooden--Stock-Photo.jpg
    May 20, 2016
    4 people like this.
  41. AwesomeCool
    AwesomeCool
    @Sharm - I agree, definitions are defined by how a society uses the word, not by what a dictionary says (and dictionaries even add word definitions to match how it is used as society changes).


    I mean, just look at all the difference with English between America and Great Briton alone.


    ex: If the whole world only used the word "happy" as a way to describe someone with depression, nobody is going to care about the "official" definition.
    May 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  42. AwesomeCool
    AwesomeCool
    Wow, how many people replied since I started typing that last post I did!?


    Not sure if this is a good discussion, or @Dalph™ is a master manipulator that is stealthily stirring the pot while turning the heat on max.
    May 20, 2016
    3 people like this.
  43. JCBrickston
    JCBrickston
    @Susan It's true for me too! Come saturday, my family and I are gonna be eating pizza like bosses. @DesperateMeasurez and I are gonna be on the kitchen crew again. He and I pretty much make homemade pizza every weekend.


    (Man, my brother's username is a glitch. I can't get it to light up in blue. Now he won't know that I'm trolling him)
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  44. Dalph
    Dalph
    AwesomeCool nailed it, my generalization at the start of this status is all part of my allmighty plan.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  45. Dalph
    Dalph
    Jokes aside here. TBH in one of my posts here "I wrote" that I was talking about copyrighted rips (it's there), doesn't take much to do 1+1 and understand what I meant from the beginning.


    At any rate like some people suggested, next time it will be: unathorised copyrighted material extraction and use. Yeah! Let's talk like robots:
    May 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  46. Dark_Metamorphosis
    Dark_Metamorphosis
    @Victor Sant I was talking about ripping copyrighted work / Or putting in resources in your game without the creators permission. I do however feel that ripping in any form does some damage to a game too, but that is in my own personal belief. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding but I would never talk about "rips" if they are A) not copyrighted material or B ) Resources used in fair use/ or with the creators permission under a specific EULA/ whatever. 


    When I read Dalph's status update that was what I saw as his "using rips" meant, and nothing else. If it by definition is wrong then I apologize, but for me ripping is in the sense of the first aspect that I was referring to.
    May 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  47. Dalph
    Dalph
    @Dark:


    Don't worry, we all define "ripping" as "using without permission copyrighted stuff" and that's what I meant from the start here.
    May 20, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  48. JCBrickston
    JCBrickston
    Hahaha, I love that music video!
    May 20, 2016
    2 people like this.
  49. Susan
    Susan
    I understood "ripping" as within this community's (and other game communities) context as stated by Taarna and Dalph.


    @Dalph™: Here's another ripping tutorial. ;)


    May 20, 2016
    3 people like this.
  50. Archeia
    Archeia
    The DS/DS+ materials aren't actually ripped and are given as source files  I mean that most of the stuff is actually 'premade' e.g. A building is premade and you have a selection of houses and so forth. We would also get 'maps' where the tiles are not separated at all and have to do it manually. Autotiles? None of that are usable here, time to make them!


    So we had to recreate them in tileset format. It was also impossible for us to even check DS/DS+ at that time for several reasons:


    [*]DS emulators can't run DS+ at all and DS was only slightly working. The colors were off and terrible. My computer could barely run a DS emulator before.

    [*]DS graphics at that time is not easily rippable nor there were tools to help me out to check if there are missing materials (there are when I researched it hardcore for anything we missed). So we had to ask Enterbrain for them if they have it somewhere. Otherwise, we look at the jpg image and recreate it painstalkingly.





    So no, on the subject of rips, DS/DS+ was not 'ripped'
    May 21, 2016
    2 people like this.
  51. taarna23
    taarna23
    @Archeia Harsh! Does this mean no original DS/+ tilesets period? I really would love to be able to work with them, but then, I like the pixel-y feel of working with something older and scaled up.


    Upside of premade stuff is there were some REALLY cute house interiors!
    May 22, 2016
    1 person likes this.