Comments on Profile Post by The Mighty Palm

  1. Matseb2611
    Matseb2611
    Yes. Also Chaotic Good vs Lawful Evil is also overdone (noble rebels vs evil empire). I think in general making one side overly good and the other overly evil is cliche and unrealistic. Morally grey stances for every faction involved in a conflict makes things a lot more interesting and relatable.
    Jan 10, 2018
  2. The Stranger
    The Stranger
    We should get rid of the good and evil dichotomy entirely. These should be terms used by individuals based on their own beliefs\codes, not as objective moral categories. I mean, who really goes around describing themselves as evil? The only aspect of that system I like is the whole neutral, chaotic and lawful thing.
    Jan 10, 2018
  3. Vincent Chu
    Vincent Chu
    I don't really like the label neutral though. I think morally grey deserves another term to refer to it while neutral sounds too plain and boring like default and normal. I like stories like Death Note where I can relate to the main character who can be regarded as both good and evil at the same time.
    Jan 10, 2018
  4. Philosophus Vagus
    Philosophus Vagus
    Light was as evil as it gets though. An entitled brat who kills everybody the media reports as a criminal does not a good guy make, no trial, no evidence, just a little cute with a god complex watching the news and passing sentence. Lawful evil vs chaotic good, you'd probably define it but it's still a clear cut story of obvious good and evil if you really pay attention and don't get caught up in his ego.
    Jan 10, 2018
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  5. Philosophus Vagus
    Philosophus Vagus
    We do need more realistic morality in stories out there though, I can name many books that do this but very few games/movies/TV shows that do. The last of us did that pretty well, and nier eventually gets there once you play it enough times to halfway think you know what's actually going on but, those are the best examples in gaming I can think of, neither being particularly great examples of it either.
    Jan 10, 2018
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  6. FleshToDust
    FleshToDust
    I disagree that good vs evil is unrealistic. I mean look at isis. also dictators (USSR, NK) would be evil empire. I personally don't like the idea where you have to do something bad but choose the least bad choice. I saw a thread earlier about it. a train killing 5 people or 1 person, which do you choose? I think those situations are very rare in life.
    Jan 11, 2018
  7. Llareian
    Llareian
    My problem with the alignment system is that it's too simple, so it winds up being completely subjective. What's a person who goes out of his way to help every peasant, but murders the unquestionably evil guys?
    Jan 11, 2018
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  8. Llareian
    Llareian
    Why do most "good" PCs have no problem with grave robbing, or killing sentient humanoids without trying to talk to them first? Is stealing a good/evil or law/chaos issue? (What about when it indirectly harms the victim?)

    When DM'ing, I prefer my players answer questions about their stance on various moral issues, rather than pick a category that means something different to them than me.
    Jan 11, 2018
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  9. Philosophus Vagus
    Philosophus Vagus
    Unrealistic was the wrong turn of phrase, (character limit keeps messing with me) but even in the examples you gave I could point out gray areas as the US created Daesh(ISIS) through it's weird policy of getting involved, picking "moderate rebels" who end up not being so moderate once we've trained them, armed them and let them seize power; same way we created Al qaeda before them.
    Jan 11, 2018
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  10. Philosophus Vagus
    Philosophus Vagus
    You may not be able to say that Daesh and the like are 'good', but neither is the Western coalition as we did intensify the instability ourselves unduly so it's no wonder at this point how hated we are in the Middle East, we are the arms dealers that let them be so dangerous to their countrymen in the first place.
    Jan 11, 2018
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  11. FleshToDust
    FleshToDust
    why would someone be a dictator? another word for it is tyrant. tyrants are evil aren't they? It might feel boring to see good vs evil but I think that is because you like having a hard decision to make, not knowing which side is good or evil. I don't think things commonly seen in life are that grey though.
    Jan 11, 2018
  12. FleshToDust
    FleshToDust
    @Philosophus Vagus I would talk more about this but PM me. This can't go far into politics here.
    @Llareian I believe the answer why it's ok to help peasants but kill bad guys is because they are the enemy. Whatever happened in the games story made them the enemy and they must be killed until they surrender.
    Jan 11, 2018
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  13. Matseb2611
    Matseb2611
    I am pretty sure in the D&D alignment, 'Good' is described as those who value life and peace, who refrain from hurting others and making them suffer. 'Evil' is described as those who don't mind to hurt others to achieve their own goal or who might even enjoy the idea of hurting someone.
    Jan 11, 2018
  14. Matseb2611
    Matseb2611
    'Lawful' is described as those who prefer structure, stability, sense of honour, and authority. 'Chaotic' is described as those who prefer to break the rules, go their own way, and be anti-establishment.
    Jan 11, 2018
  15. Matseb2611
    Matseb2611
    So an anti-hero like Batman or Robin Hood would be Chaotic Good, because they go against the established structure in a hope to do greater good. This means their methods can often be seen as questionable. Whereas say a tyrannical regime would be Lawful Evil because it sacrifices personal freedom and rights for the sake of stability of the greater whole.
    Jan 11, 2018
  16. FleshToDust
    FleshToDust
    @Matseb2611 I don't play that game but the art of war is to kill your enemies. You have to even if you're good or you won't live long. I think once you have a declared enemy they forfeit all their I suppose morality points so if you kill them it won't reduce your morality points if you can think about it that way.
    Jan 11, 2018
  17. Matseb2611
    Matseb2611
    Oh yeah, I agree. But I think what sets 'Good' apart from 'Evil' in D&D alignment sense are the internal values and end goals. I think in real life sense, the 'good' and 'evil' morality is very subjective. What might seem like an oppressive tyrannical regime to some would seem like safety and security to others.
    Jan 11, 2018
  18. The Stranger
    The Stranger
    @FleshToDust I don't agree that a dictator is automatically evil. If the dictator makes beneficial decisions, then he\she isn't evil. Simply holding supreme authority doesn't make a person evil. Democracies can make some terrible decisions which can cause great harm - does this make them inherently good or evil?
    Jan 11, 2018
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  19. The Stranger
    The Stranger
    I think it's wise to understand why people do things, rather than judge them to be either good or evil. This is a very simplistic way of viewing things, and blinds people to the truth. You can understand why someone has done something without supporting their decision. You can even understand that their actions, though harmful, do not come from a place of evil.
    Jan 11, 2018
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  20. FleshToDust
    FleshToDust
    Power corrupts. I've not seen a good dictator in the world and the world has been around for a while. They all do shady things and eventually enslave their people. Maybe they had good intentions in the beginning but eventually something sways them whether it be money, power, desires of control and fame. Who knows. All I know is that i've not seen a good dictator.
    Jan 11, 2018
  21. The Stranger
    The Stranger
    All power has the potential to corrupt, it doesn't matter how trivial said power is. Ever seen how some store managers act? There have been, historically, good and bad dictators (if we include monarchs), but a good leader (good as in knowing how to lead) must be ready to make tough decisions which his\her people may not like.
    Jan 11, 2018
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  22. Philosophus Vagus
    Philosophus Vagus
    @FleshToDust because a 'good' dictator is called a Monarch (linguistically speaking) Dictator is used to describe one already deemed evil, both can have councils or not, both might call themselves something else to sound less absolutist than they actually are, but the bare facts of both positions are the same.
    Jan 11, 2018
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  23. Philosophus Vagus
    Philosophus Vagus
    Why not invite @The Stranger into our PM about East/West politics and extend it to the general sense of power structures? We three have hijacked and politicized Palms status enough I think.
    Jan 11, 2018
  24. FleshToDust
    FleshToDust
    I think the reason America prospered for so long is partly because government was limited and they couldn't easily become tyrannical but yeah managers are terrible especially at large companies. My old boss had a wife in the hospital and his boss (the manager) said "choose between your family and your job" not letting him leave work to see her.
    Jan 11, 2018
  25. The Stranger
    The Stranger
    @FleshToDust Yeah, that boss sounded like a right clown. Clearly, he was very business oriented and lacked compassion. If he gave me that ultimatum I would've just left - so very little comes before loved ones in my life.
    Jan 11, 2018
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