104 NPC's?!

[CobeSlice]

I planned out the map for my first town. It's 150x150 and looks pretty good for my first attempt. I am using Mack Style sprites, which is why I made it so much bigger than it probably needed to be. Anyway, once all was said and done I made a list and realized I'll need about 104 NPC's for this town to operate on a believable level. Most of these NPC's are going to be workers such as the Inn Keeper and Shop workers, as well as the Mayor. However, some of them are not. Some of them are Nuns, Priests, Dockworkers, Warehouseworkers, etc. My question is this:

Obviously not ALL of the NPC's will be on the main map. Most of them will be sequestered to their own individual interior maps (houses, shops, etc). Is this too many NPC's for the game to load and render properly if I have minimal events occurring on the map as well? I don't want to create a laggy opening to the game, but this is definitely going to be the central hub of my game.

In the same vein, would it be better for the game if I created large sheets for interiors and put a few on the same page, or would it be better for the game if I created individual interiors for each building (which is about 50-55). Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, guys and gals. (Talk about biting off more than you can chew for a solo project, fresh out the gate).

 

[Solo]

This is just my own opinion, from personal experience, but I really don't think this is something you need to worry about. Like you said, all the NPCs will be split across several maps, so I wouldn't think lag would be an issue.


As for making each interior section its own map or not, in my own experience, this is really only an issue if you intend to make a truly massive game, as there is in fact a map limit (999 in XP, and yes I actually did reach it; I'd think it would be the same in Ace). Toward the end of my project, I had to condense several maps into one, while keeping each separate section out of view, which can be a bit of a pain. Plus, with everything jumbled together like that, it can be easy to forget where things are.


So you should create each interior map separately, resorting to the "cluster method" only as a last resort. In my opinion.

 

[Shaz]

Maps are loaded one at a time. What you have on interior maps has no effect on how long an exterior map will take to load and render properly.


Poor performance is caused by many more things than just the number of events. You could have 2 events and cause the map to lag like crazy. You could have 100 events and it'll run perfectly smoothly. HOW you MAKE your events is what matters, so nobody can tell you one way or the other until you've actually created them.


Also, a large map with several interiors vs many maps with a single interior each is also down to personal preference. You might find it easier to have many maps (and they WILL be faster to load, not that you'll really notice) if you want to have autoevents running on some of them - otherwise you'd have to use switches or conditional branches to determine if they're in a building where you want to run an autoevent.


You might just want to check on the limits for number of maps - they can be numbered from 1 to 999, so I assume that means a maximum of 999 maps. If you've got 56 for a single town (one exterior and 55 interiors) and you have 20 towns like this, there's your map quota gone.

 

[CobeSlice]

I had the same concerns, but I also kind of like the aesthetic of a cluster map system where you can see other areas while in one. Maybe not for the interiors of houses and shops, but for dungeons. I've seen it used effectively in games like Skyborn, and I find it highly appealing. I'm glad to know there is a map limit though, and that lag shouldn't be an issue. I'm just never really sure what the game can handle before it starts to slow things down. I am using a Region ID script to block out places the character or NPCS cannot go, as well as a script to define places a player walks under vs over, etc. Can scripts cause a lag if there are too many of them?

EDIT: There is no foreseeable maps that will come anywhere close to being this big with the exception maybe of the Castle and its surrounding town... and really that's just due to the size of a castle. Like I said, this is going to be the main hub of the game, so I wanted to take care to make it special and grandiose and worth hanging out in. Thanks for pointing out it's HOW an event is scripted versus how many there are. My next step is to start looking at what kinds of events I need to keep against what are considered throw away (NPC's saying "Hi").

 

[Shaz]

Again, it depends on how the script is written. A dozen scripts could cause no discernible loss in performance, and a single badly-written script could grind your game to a halt.


Certainly if you have MANY scripts that all have an action to perform on every frame update, you're going to end up with lag. But a lot of scripts are only active at certain times, so do not vie for the same timeslices.


Basically, try and be smart with eventing and with your scripts - don't use parallel processes just because they're there (or just because someone suggests them - I've seen way too many people suggest parallel processes lately when there's absolutely no reason for them, and in some cases the suggestion was "it MIGHT fix your problem") - make sure you NEED them first. Similarly, don't use scripts just because you can. Make sure your game NEEDS them.

 

[CobeSlice]

Let me ask you this then... for my central town, it is basically built upon a large canal system. There are areas of water that run all through the town. At first it wasn't an issue because it was just a tile the player couldnt step on and it was pretty. Then I decided to create a "pool" for the NPCs to hang out in. This created the need for the regional ID script (This one here) to block out the canal tiles I dont want the character walking in... which is 99.8% of the maps canal tiles. From there I also added another script for walking over/under bridges, and behind large terrain (which I cannot seem to find the link for and am deeply kicking myself for not taking GrandmaDeb's advice on and copy-pasting it somewhere). I could obviously just remove the pool and delete the entire need for the first script and the HUGE amount of regional tiles on the map right now... but if it might not make a difference I may keep it. I just feel like my play tests (with nothing but the exterior) are a bit laggy and am wondering if this might be the cause... or if my computer is acting up.

 

[Ralpf]

One potential problem that occurs to me is you need to make sure that the player progress isn't being blocked by NPC's.

A lot of my play tests have been a bit laggy, too. And I only have a few very basic events on the map with the issue.

 

[Shaz]

You're probably talking about Neon Black's Terrain Tags script.


It could be that you've got an event (or several events) that just aren't designed very well. Do you have parallel process events anywhere (either events on the map OR common events) that are active? Do they HAVE to be parallel process events? Do they HAVE to run 60 times a second?


Also, what scripts do you have? A screenshot of your script editor, with all your custom scripts visible in the panel on the left, should give us a good idea.


Going to move this into VX Ace Support, because you now have a specific problem you need help with, and it's not just about game mechanics design anymore

 

[CobeSlice]

You're probably talking about Neon Black's Terrain Tags script.

It could be that you've got an event (or several events) that just aren't designed very well. Do you have parallel process events anywhere (either events on the map OR common events) that are active? Do they HAVE to be parallel process events? Do they HAVE to run 60 times a second?

Also, what scripts do you have? A screenshot of your script editor, with all your custom scripts visible in the panel on the left, should give us a good idea.

Going to move this into VX Ace Support, because you now have a specific problem you need help with, and it's not just about game mechanics design anymore

If you're talking to me and not Ralpf, I have no events currently on the map, and only have the Terrain Tags and the other script I posted.

 

[Shaz]

Yes, in response to this:

I also added another script for walking over/under bridges, and behind large terrain (which I cannot seem to find the link

What about common events that are set to parallel process? What about "animated" events (torches, street lamps, fires) that you might have set to parallel process thinking you need to do that in order to animate them (don't laugh - it's been done MANY times).


If none of those, I can only suggest you zip up your project and load it up somewhere for someone else to take a look at.

 

[CobeSlice]

Yes, in response to this:

What about common events that are set to parallel process? What about "animated" events (torches, street lamps, fires) that you might have set to parallel process thinking you need to do that in order to animate them (don't laugh - it's been done MANY times).

If none of those, I can only suggest you zip up your project and load it up somewhere for someone else to take a look at.

I have absolutely NO EVENTS on the map aside from two terrain tag scripts... The lag however could be internal because I've noticed it as a general thing on my computer earlier today.

 

[Shaz]

I said COMMON events. Those are NOT on the map. They are in the database.

 

[CobeSlice]

Oh. No. There is literally nothing done. Built a town. That's about it. Added the two scripts.

 

[Andar]

then please zip your project and upload it somewhere where we can download and check it - I don't think we can help you without checking the project ourselves...