3D vs 2D vs 2.5D

GraveBusta

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Of all things I do not know why I feel like I love 2D and 3D best when in perfect harmony some might call it 2.5D,What are your opinions? Does it matter what dimension or do you have a specific favorite?  Really I am not picky I can play any Dimension and be satisfied but my personal favorite is 2.5D
 

cabfe

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I like 2D because this kind of graphics always look good even years later, unless it was crap to begin with :) .

Pure 3D doesn't age as well.

Take games from 10 years ago in both categories and compare.

2.5D is interesting in that it allows smoother animations, but requires more work for the 3D modeler and animator than classic 2D sprites.

It's the way often used in remakes of old 2D games, by the way.
 

Tai_MT

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I think 2D has it's place and 3D has its place.  However, I feel like 2.5D was invented for developers who had no idea how to do 3D, so they made a 2D game and then tried to make the background as 3D as possible in order to try to cover up the fact that they don't have the time, money, or resources to make the 3D game they wanted.

Personally, I find narrative delivered through first person games a little more immersive than on 2D games...  But, I like 2D narrative games (like RPGs) because it feels like you're in a story instead of making your own, like a 3D RPG would feel like.  Place for both.

But, again, I consider 2.5D fairly lazy.
 

GraveBusta

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I think 2D has it's place and 3D has its place.  However, I feel like 2.5D was invented for developers who had no idea how to do 3D, so they made a 2D game and then tried to make the background as 3D as possible in order to try to cover up the fact that they don't have the time, money, or resources to make the 3D game they wanted.

Personally, I find narrative delivered through first person games a little more immersive than on 2D games...  But, I like 2D narrative games (like RPGs) because it feels like you're in a story instead of making your own, like a 3D RPG would feel like.  Place for both.

But, again, I consider 2.5D fairly lazy.
Lazy or not it looks quite nice
 

Tai_MT

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And yet... wouldn't it look nicer if it was a completely 3D environment...  Or that budget was spent making the 2D portion of the game even nicer instead of trying to make some weird hybrid that has a feature that doesn't need to exist except as merely a marketing tool towards people who buy games entirely on how it looks instead of how it plays?
 

GraveBusta

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And yet... wouldn't it look nicer if it was a completely 3D environment...  Or that budget was spent making the 2D portion of the game even nicer instead of trying to make some weird hybrid that has a feature that doesn't need to exist except as merely a marketing tool towards people who buy games entirely on how it looks instead of how it plays?
Heh just a difference in opinions I can see where you stand, your style and mine aren't the same but I understand how you feel with this.
 

Tai_MT

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Well, it probably doesn't help that I've also never really played many 2.5D games that were any good...  Save for maybe Super Smash Brothers.  My opinion on it tends to be skewed by me not really playing any that use the 2.5D games that are any good as games themselves.

Same reason I'm not a fan of fighting games.  Or sports games.  Or most racing games.

Then again, in this case, the "good games" might be somewhat subjective.  Though, I could probably make decent and compelling arguments for why those genres aren't good, ha ha.  Still personal opinion at the end of the day.

I dunno, I guess I just feel like 2.5D games are the result of devs not really knowing what they want to do instead of some grand artistic choice.  I typically just throw my hands up in the air at those games and go, "make a decision!  Either one is fine!  Stop trying to mix peanut butter with ketchup!".  Yeah, I'm weird.
 

GraveBusta

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Well, it probably doesn't help that I've also never really played many 2.5D games that were any good...  Save for maybe Super Smash Brothers.  My opinion on it tends to be skewed by me not really playing any that use the 2.5D games that are any good as games themselves.

Same reason I'm not a fan of fighting games.  Or sports games.  Or most racing games.

Then again, in this case, the "good games" might be somewhat subjective.  Though, I could probably make decent and compelling arguments for why those genres aren't good, ha ha.  Still personal opinion at the end of the day.

I dunno, I guess I just feel like 2.5D games are the result of devs not really knowing what they want to do instead of some grand artistic choice.  I typically just throw my hands up in the air at those games and go, "make a decision!  Either one is fine!  Stop trying to mix peanut butter with ketchup!".  Yeah, I'm weird.
Legend of mana great example of 2.5D my opinion idk if youd like it or not
 

erpicci

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I think 3D allows to insert some interesting effects in a [RPG] story.

I'm not talking about special effects, instead... suppose your character is watching at something from a certain point of view. Then she moves and sees the same thing from a different point of view, this allows her to understand something about what she's observing (to make the thing more interesting, this could be a metaphore for something deeper).

I think this could be hard to obtain in 2D, where you usually just see everything from above.

Then, of course, in 3D you have all those fancy lighting effects, physics and so on, but that's a bit unfair for a comparison :)

I've never played a 2.5D game so far, so I cannot tell...
 

Tai_MT

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I played Legends of Mana and it was... Okay.  It really wasn't all that "2.5D" other than the movement field.  Almost all of the backgrounds were static matte paintings (which looked gorgeous... but weren't 3D).  The player sprites were all 2D as well, but they moved in this 3D field.  It made combat in places kind of.... wonky.  Especially once you got instruments to cast spells and the spells were all AOEs on this 3D playing field, but it was sometimes tricky to judge where the 2D enemies were in that field (or sometimes if the bosses were even in the field).

As a fan of the Mana series... I have to say I liked it...  But I also thought it was a very weak entry into the franchise.  The game really only got fun for me when I was playing with my friends, though I don't think I ever found a permanent "second player", so my friends could never level up and improve their skills and abilities like I could.

2.5D in that game made a lot of the combat mechanics really wonky, ha ha.  So... I can't really say it was a "good game".  It was fun for what it was (which was... not really a Mana game... just a different game they seemed to slap the Mana name on and put in a bunch of characters from it), but it wasn't as good as other sidescrollers I'd played with kind of the same mechanics (like some of the Tales games).
 

GraveBusta

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I think 3D allows to insert some interesting effects in a [RPG] story.

I'm not talking about special effects, instead... suppose your character is watching at something from a certain point of view. Then she moves and sees the same thing from a different point of view, this allows her to understand something about what she's observing (to make the thing more interesting, this could be a metaphore for something deeper).

I think this could be hard to obtain in 2D, where you usually just see everything from above.

Then, of course, in 3D you have all those fancy lighting effects, physics and so on, but that's a bit unfair for a comparison :)

I've never played a 2.5D game so far, so I cannot tell...
I really hate when people try to be realistic in the wrong genre though, for example fantasy RPGs (my opinion not fact) do not belong with realistic fancy graphics I never was impressed by realistic graphics in RPGs, when I play RPGs I want it to be less real as it can get without glitching up
 
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Quxios

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I personally like 2.5D best when it's done correctly. Like GraveBusta said, I like my fantasy RPG with less real graphics so that kicks down 3D to the bottom of my list.

My favorite example of a good 2.5D would be Transistor, all the environments are 2D painted and the models look like 3D but think they might have been exported as spritesheets.
 

GraveBusta

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I personally like 2.5D best when it's done correctly. Like GraveBusta said, I like my fantasy RPG with less real graphics so that kicks down 3D to the bottom of my list.

My favorite example of a good 2.5D would be Transistor, all the environments are 2D painted and the models look like 3D but think they might have been exported as spritesheets.
some games use use even stranger animation methods, Elsword had a model system that is very similar to a sprite I do not understand what it's called the difference is sprites have animated poses elsword model system is like a cross of sprite and model I would need to show a template to explain better. While recently that game has made one bad choice after another you gotta admit the art is impressive for a Sidescroller.
 
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ElementalLight

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i prefer 3D however on a development stand point i much prefer 2.5D or 2D because it allows for easier animation and no needing to worry about a  z axis
 

kerbonklin

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2.5d is designed for games that want to add depth while resembling a classic side-scroller at the same time. (aka your character can only move left or right) Using 2.5d, it allows your gameplay to do cool things, such as going into the background, or having curves within a map that changes visual direction, and stuff like overlapping paths, while still only moving left or right along a single X Axis.

The current MMO I play, Elsword, is 2.5d and makes very well-designed dungeons using their 2.5d system/engine. Here's a sample dungeon where the map in whole is a circular dome, and the level makes you go around it towards the center map-by-map to the boss area in the center all while moving on a straight left or right path.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qub-ePCH1vo

Edit:

GraveBusta, on 06 Mar 2015 - 8:47 PM, said:
Elsword had a model system that is very similar to a sprite I do not understand what it's called the difference is sprites have animated poses elsword model system is like a cross of sprite and model I would need to show a template to explain better. While recently that game has made one bad choice after another you gotta admit the art is impressive for a Sidescroller.
Mad props to ya. Elsword characters and enemies are all 3d models. Grand Chase is also all 3d models but the level design was all 2d. (the company's other 2.5d game that Elsword was based off of)
 
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cabfe

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Seeing the video Kerbonklin put in his last post, I think there is a need for a definition of 2.5D.
 
Elsword, as seen in this video (I don't know the game) is 3D.
The characters are 3D, the level is made of 3D elements (you can see under/above the platforms when they're viewed from different heights - 2D cannot do that).
 
It's a locked camera in that you cannot "walk" everywhere but the engine is still full 3D.
 
Here is my vision of 2.5D, a screenshot from the remake of Gabriel Knight: (very large picture, beware)

249fd86dc3a775bd45390680ef7ff0cef0f7f27b.jpg
Static background, maybe created from a 3D model but with 2D enhancements by artists and full 3D characters put inside the scene.

Actually, I think there are more adventure games that uses that style than RPGs.
The OP didn't specify the game genre but in my mind, when talking about 2.5D, I visualize adventure games.
 

Matseb2611

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2.5D can be really nice if done well. Super Castlevania 4 did it really well in one of the stages with a cylindrical room where the background was constantly spinning, making you feel like you were inside an enormous cylinder:

super-castlevania-4.jpg
 

arekpowalan

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What game, I ask?

If RPG, I go 2D, or something bird eyes. Such games includes Dragon Quest and all the SNES classics. They are easy to get into and fun to navigate. Beside, 3D polygons in JRPG are difficult to attract the eyes. Most 3D Final Fantasy from 10 on are not great, and Tales of series is not my cup of tea, so there's much less to expected from 3D games for me.

Fighting games seem to work better in 2.5D sprites and polygons. Most 3D Anime-related fighting games in PS2 and Wii are not that very engaging, while games like Street Fighters IV and Tekken V are great.

Racing games are always better in 3D.

Action games, I can go with anything.

Ultimately, it comes to how the game delivers its perpective. I'm rather open at presentation.
 
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GraveBusta

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The only way you notice elsword is 2.5D is by lowering the graphics most of that fancy 3D stuff is trimmed down on low graphics.
 

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