A Charge Turn Battle System with... Multiple acts per turn?

Neo Soul Gamer

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
659
Reaction score
409
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
This idea just hit me. Maybe it's been executed in other games, but I've never seen it.

For my game, I initially wanted to go with an Action Point Mechanic within a Turn-Based battle system. But what if I kept that same Action Point mechanic within a Charge-Turn Battle system? In other words, you can execute multiple actions per turn.

Out of every Charge-Turn battle system I've played, I've never been able to act multiple times by default. It always required some kind of special ability and it was usually only available to limited party members. 

What do you guys think of the idea? 
 

Andar

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
33,346
Reaction score
8,389
First Language
German
Primarily Uses
RMMV
There are already several ATB/CTB scripts that can do that - it's just rarely used for combat, because it requires more balancing work compared to an ATB/CTB where all skills need the same number of points.


If you check the Battlesystems on Ace master script list, you'll find several that have this option
 

Neo Soul Gamer

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
659
Reaction score
409
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
There are already several ATB/CTB scripts that can do that - it's just rarely used for combat, because it requires more balancing work compared to an ATB/CTB where all skills need the same number of points.

If you check the Battlesystems on Ace master script list, you'll find several that have this option
Oh I know it can be done. I've just never seen it done before. My concern pertains to whether or not it would be enjoyable. Obviously the execution would have a lot to do with that. But is the idea somewhat appealing?
 

kranasAngel

Wanderer
Veteran
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
128
Reaction score
47
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
I would play that kind of game
 

Frozen_Phoenix

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
134
Reaction score
79
First Language
Portuguese
Primarily Uses
RMMV
It's a good idea as it can add another layer of complexity to your system, allowing more variety to the character skills. Just make sure it's balanced.
 

Accendor

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 24, 2015
Messages
230
Reaction score
62
First Language
german
Primarily Uses
N/A
You may want to have a look at the combat system from Bravely Default.

Its basically this way: You start combat with 1 Action Point (AP). You can chose to wait and defend for a  turn to generate another Action Point with a max stack of 4. You can use each action point for one action in a round. So basically with 2 AP you can to Damage + Heal, with 3 Damage, Damage etc.

BUT this also works the other way around. You can use AP that you did not yet have. So if you want you can do up to 4 actions with 1 AP, e.g. Heal, Damage, Damage, Damage, Damage. But now you are on -3 AP and everytime it is the turn of your character again, he is unable to do any action and will regenerate 1AP instead until he is back on 1 AP again.

Works really nice, you can have a look at it here: https://youtu.be/mclenX2LmEU?t=5m38s
 

Rinobi

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Seems like a balancing nightmare with no real advantages, probably why they aren't usually implemented together.
 

Neo Soul Gamer

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
659
Reaction score
409
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
You may want to have a look at the combat system from Bravely Default.

Its basically this way: You start combat with 1 Action Point (AP). You can chose to wait and defend for a  turn to generate another Action Point with a max stack of 4. You can use each action point for one action in a round. So basically with 2 AP you can to Damage + Heal, with 3 Damage, Damage etc.

BUT this also works the other way around. You can use AP that you did not yet have. So if you want you can do up to 4 actions with 1 AP, e.g. Heal, Damage, Damage, Damage, Damage. But now you are on -3 AP and everytime it is the turn of your character again, he is unable to do any action and will regenerate 1AP instead until he is back on 1 AP again.

Works really nice, you can have a look at it here: https://youtu.be/mclenX2LmEU?t=5m38s
I'm very familiar with that battle system actually. Love it.

Seems like a balancing nightmare with no real advantages, probably why they aren't usually implemented together.
Let's be real. Game Balancing is a nightmare regardless of what battle system you use. The reason why I want to use a CTB is because there would be an extra element of strategy in manipulating the turn order gauges. I also plan to add a feature where consecutive strikes/combos can grant special attacks. A risk/reward factor comes into play at this point. That's just one of many ideas. 
 

Andar

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
33,346
Reaction score
8,389
First Language
German
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Seems like a balancing nightmare with no real advantages, probably why they aren't usually implemented together.
The advantage is that it adds a tactical decision (using multiple weak skills or one powerfull in the same time) to the battles for those that want to think instead of button mashing
 

Rinobi

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
579
Reaction score
220
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
@thechancellor

I see, I'm thinking of a different 'Action Point" system then. Like button input combos, or skill chaining?

@Andar

CATB already has that advantage through turn speed. A faster charging ATB bar means more turns. A strong skill can take longer to charge or cooldown, while a weak skill could charge quickly or have a very short cooldown, thus... granting the same level of complexity (in a slightly different way). Then again, I'm not entirely sure what was meant by "Action Points". The first thing that comes to mind is something akin to Yanfly's Free Turn Battle.

If you don't want players just mashing the attack button, then enemies need to be a little more than a cardboard cutout...
 
Last edited by a moderator:

laaghisce

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
36
Reaction score
24
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Would FF10's battle system count?

If so, there was an attack called 'Quick Hit' that was like a regular attack but the character would be able to act again much sooner than before. Every character could potentially learn it, and at late game\superbosses would be an essential attack.

While it made most other skills later obsolete, I enjoyed using it a lot! It was pretty balanced for me when going through the main story because it had a high mana cost (this is HD remastered version) at the time, the character capable of learning this skill had 200 max MP or less while this skill costed 30 MP. ;[

I wouldn't say it's balanced if it makes every other attack pointless to use, but if it's possible to make other attacks more powerful than this then it sounds decent to me. Or use it to do a 'combo' of skills. Using 'Quick Hit' as an example, the player can use 'Quick Hit' (the damage for this would be no different than a regular attack) and then use a skill that does double or triple the damage! or other things like healing a character, debuffing an enemy, etc.
 

Neo Soul Gamer

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
659
Reaction score
409
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
@thechancellor

I see, I'm thinking of a different 'Action Point" system then. Like button input combos, or skill chaining?

@Andar

CATB already has that advantage through turn speed. A faster charging ATB bar means more turns. A strong skill can take longer to charge or cooldown, while a weak skill could charge quickly or have a very short cooldown, thus... granting the same level of complexity (in a slightly different way). Then again, I'm not entirely sure what was meant by "Action Points". The first thing that comes to mind is something akin to Yanfly's Free Turn Battle.

If you don't want players just mashing the attack button, then enemies need to be a little more than a cardboard cutout...
No, you got the right idea. That's what I was implying. Although each actor would have their own individual Action Points. And Yanfly's Enemy AI plugin gives me a lot more control over how enemies will act, assuming there aren't any compatibility issues.

Would FF10's battle system count?

If so, there was an attack called 'Quick Hit' that was like a regular attack but the character would be able to act again much sooner than before. Every character could potentially learn it, and at late game\superbosses would be an essential attack.

While it made most other skills later obsolete, I enjoyed using it a lot! It was pretty balanced for me when going through the main story because it had a high mana cost (this is HD remastered version) at the time, the character capable of learning this skill had 200 max MP or less while this skill costed 30 MP. ;[

I wouldn't say it's balanced if it makes every other attack pointless to use, but if it's possible to make other attacks more powerful than this then it sounds decent to me. Or use it to do a 'combo' of skills. Using 'Quick Hit' as an example, the player can use 'Quick Hit' (the damage for this would be no different than a regular attack) and then use a skill that does double or triple the damage! or other things like healing a character, debuffing an enemy, etc.
Would it count as an example? Sort of. CTBs usually have an "act once per turn" type of feature. I'm trying to break that mold and have an "act as many times as you can" type of feature. When I say combos, I mean attacking consecutively before the target gets to act. So it then becomes a decision of whether you want your turns to spread out in order to react appropriately (heal, cure status ailments, etc.) or do you want to have multiple party members attack one after another. To me, that would make for interesting battles. 
 

LoganForrests

Warper
Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
The battle script/system that I'm currently working on features the possibility to of multiple actions per turn with a charge turn system. Additionally, the more actions performed the longer the wait before that actor's next turn. There is a limit to how many actions can be performed (many low cost or few high cost); if you imagine that a "turn" is available at 100, the total number of actions points allowed cannot exceed that 100 (as this would put them down to 0 - the longest wait for their turn). Throw in varying rates at which actors can recharge their turns, and it (hopefully) becomes a system in which how you use your actions can affect how quickly can you respond to future threats.

The battle system itself is much more tactical battle than described so far as it is also grid based and the variable charge turn system is only part of it. As such, even movement costs time opportunity where repositioning will also factor into delays in future turns. 

It certainly does require a great deal of care for balancing. But then any battle system does if you don't want it to become a dull, just-use-attack-by-default kind of affair.
 

Neo Soul Gamer

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
659
Reaction score
409
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
The battle script/system that I'm currently working on features the possibility to of multiple actions per turn with a charge turn system. Additionally, the more actions performed the longer the wait before that actor's next turn. There is a limit to how many actions can be performed (many low cost or few high cost); if you imagine that a "turn" is available at 100, the total number of actions points allowed cannot exceed that 100 (as this would put them down to 0 - the longest wait for their turn). Throw in varying rates at which actors can recharge their turns, and it (hopefully) becomes a system in which how you use your actions can affect how quickly can you respond to future threats.

The battle system itself is much more tactical battle than described so far as it is also grid based and the variable charge turn system is only part of it. As such, even movement costs time opportunity where repositioning will also factor into delays in future turns. 

It certainly does require a great deal of care for balancing. But then any battle system does if you don't want it to become a dull, just-use-attack-by-default kind of affair.
Sounds like a Tactical Battle System.
 

Latest Threads

Latest Posts

Latest Profile Posts

For anyone interested: there's another huge humble bundle with JRPG assets + a game jam starting next month - it's for a good cause, so check it out <3
Turning a specific vibe into reality is incredibly difficult. For instance, this song is one of the ones I listen to when working on my post apocalyptic project, and getting it's "feeling" into the game has been a real challenge.

I don't just wanna regurgitate the numbers I see, I wanna actually understand the calculations I'm making so I'm probably gonna make a post later with some calculations and what I THINK they mean to get some advice and corrections.

Edit: All (Most) of these will be tested in game prior. I just wanna make sure I understand what's going on under the hood if you will.
my girlfriend calls all my little chibi art cute lol... funny considering that wasn't the original art style of the game.
100 problems in RMMZ 100 more problems take one down pass it around 101 Problems in RMMZ

Forum statistics

Threads
113,778
Messages
1,077,362
Members
147,808
Latest member
traviscot
Top