a couple of questions

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Basically he wants the skill speed to affect the ATB speed.


I've seen one which uses charging skills (forgot which, tried quite a number of ATBs), which I suggested to him since he can just make all skills have a charge rate anyways to enable the player to have a skill that charges "faster" than the enemies.

 

[BoluBolu]

Basically he wants the skill speed to affect the ATB speed.

I've seen one which uses charging skills (forgot which, tried quite a number of ATBs), which I suggested to him since he can just make all skills have a charge rate anyways to enable the player to have a skill that charges "faster" than the enemies.

What? How come it can be done? I mean skill speed that affect ATB speed? Okay I need to bang my head to the wall..

AFAIK, ATB gauge is always come first, after it's full, that's the time actor can choose a skill(action), then if the ATB gauge is already full, why it's speed need to be affected again? Or the skill is chosen before ATB is filled up? If that's the case the system is not like ATB, it more like Charging system where everyone input their skill first then the system show which charging speed is faster then whoever charging gauge filled up first, then his/her skill will be launched first.

Or maybe the action order is determined first by Agility or any parameters, then after the order list queue is made, then do the charging system, battler will choose skill and every skill have their charging speed, and then for example : If an actor has to be the last actor in the action order queue list, but his/her skill invocation speed is really2 fast, it can overcome the other battler that' already make action because got earlier action order in queue list?

Spoiler

1. Eric

2. Natalie

3. Terence

# First action order is Eric, then Natalie, then Terence

- Eric use a skill with 1000  sec harging time (sec is just an example)

- Natalie use a skill with 900 sec charging time

- Terence use a skill with 100 sec charging time

Then Even Terence is in the last queue, his charging gauge will filled up first and launch his skill first?

But this is not different than the default battle system right? The difference only in this system show a gauge for charging time.

Okay , I'm afraid my wall is getting crumbled because I want to bang my head again. I thinkI need to go on XD. Good luck guys .

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

Charging, as I said, I'm sure I've used one that allows charging a skill. Basically like FFX-2 Magic, once the ATB gauge fills up, you pick your action, if it's magic, your gauge will re-fill again first before using the magic.


You cannot modify the first charge of course, which is based on your speed mostly. But the skill charge itself could be modified to make it faster. So if all skills have charges, then you can just make the super speed skill have a very fast charge compared to the other skills, so hopefully it will fire first before most enemies.


Though IMHO, I hate the double charging that this entails, which is why I support his original idea of modifying the ATB so that it let's you pick the action before the bar charges so that the bar can take into account the skill speed. Of course it will need an edit of any ATB to do that.


PS: Even if actions are picked first or it's the ATB + Charging (like how FFX-2 did their system for magic), it's still an ATB in it's essence.

 

[BoluBolu]

Charging, as I said, I'm sure I've used one that allows charging a skill. Basically like FFX-2 Magic, once the ATB gauge fills up, you pick your action, if it's magic, your gauge will re-fill again first before using the magic.

That means like what I've described about the chinese developer ATB system. The ATB filled up then after choosing skill, the gauge will recharge from zero to full, the speed depends on the skill charging time, when full, then launch the skill.

So if all skills have charges, then you can just make the super speed skill have a very fast charge compared to the other skills, so hopefully it will fire first before most enemies.

Yeah that's it, that's why she(the chinese) set all her game skill one by one to determine which skill has more faster charge speed, and what is not.

Though IMHO, I hate the double charging that this entails, which is why I support his original idea of modifying the ATB so that it let's you pick the action before the bar charges so that the bar can take into account the skill speed. Of course it will need an edit of any ATB to do that.

That is what I said earlier then, what differences between this and Default Battle System other then showing gauge? (Let's you pick the action before the bar charges), the default battle system let us pick action first, then when the turn start(The system implicitly doing the ATB(gauge) + charging skill time(if any) Whoever ATB gauge is already full(this also affected with skill invocation speed) his/her action will launch first because implicitly ATB gauge charging becomes much more faster according to skill invocation(if it has). This is not have big difference other than showing gauge and not showing gauge for Default BS. Anything that let the actor to pick action first then do ATB after it, actually not really different from DBS. DBS is like that, just not showing gauge and not(what word I should use for explaining this?) do calculation of who do action first explicitly. It does it behind the scene for all battlers straightly, after that straightly create the queue of who performed first and who not, also it does it very fast, if you know what I mean. Again sorry if I'm wrong XD

P.S : Skill Invocation Speed like what I had said can be configurated from Skill Database.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

The difference? You have a filling bar.


Also the fact that it's an ATB means that you can have a character filling up his gauge twice or more in a row before the others can re-fill. So you can still have a character that can act more times than the others.


Conclusion? It's still an ATB.

 

[BoluBolu]

Oh I see then , I got it, I got it. And yeah that's still considered as ATB system. An ATB system that I just only know now and this new for me XD.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

For me that's the most useful aspect of an ATB but also the most frustrating. Useful if your characters are fast as you can hit many times before the enemy can strike, but frustrating in the case of an enemy like FFX-2's Shiva which has far too much agility that she strikes you about 3 to XX times before you can strike.


Actually, for me if the ATB won't allow that, IDK why you even used an ATB. If me an my enemies would always have a 1:1 turn correspondence, I'd rather go default turn based instead.

 

[BoluBolu]

That is exactly right, another thing that is fun is ATB breaker I always love that. To kill a badass boss usually like the damn Ultra or Omega Weapon(I forgot the name) in FFVIII XD.

 

[Oddball]

This would take AGI into account right? if it's empty, then fills up? BTW, this discusion between BoluBolu and Engr. Adiktuzmiko has really helped me flesh out one of my unique classes, so thank you. Also, I'm wondering if there's a way to make modification of attack speed in skills that goes off a % of the charecters AGI. that way, the ATB system isn't broken as hell in good chinks of the game

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

That really depends on the ATB that you will be using. Some allows you to set your own formula for obtaining how fast the bar fills up. Some uses a hardcoded formula

 

[Oddball]

is there one that takes into account AGI + skill speed? also, is there a script that modifies the skill speed factor so it's a % of AGI?

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

None that I know of. Mostly because they pick actions once the bar is filled so there's no time to include the skill speed.. You might actually need a customized one.

 

[Oddball]

None that I know of. Mostly because they pick actions once the bar is filled so there's no time to include the skill speed.. You might actually need a customized one.

looks like I'm delving into the complicated world of scripting then. thank you for all your help

 

[Sixth]

Yami's Classical ATB. That one includes charge rate for skills.


DoubleX made some great fixes for that ATB system and he also made a bunch of neat addons for it too.


One of the addon is a script which makes the default speed of the ATB gauge dependent on a formula you have set up. The formula can include (and includes by default in the addon) individual AGI bonus for each actor separately.


Another addon includes a cooldown system, which is also dependent on AGI of battlers.


Basically, if you get the custom ATB formula addon for it and set it up to use AGI in the formula, everything will be dependent on that formula, the ATB filling speed, the skill charging speed and the cooldown speed.


You can also make states like "Haste", "Slow" and even "Stop" if you combine some of DoubleX's addons.


Btw, from what I understood, you want to make an ATB system like the one used in FF12 (3 hours fighting against Yiazmat... good old times ). You can set your commands anytime in the battle for each actor, and when the ATB fills up, it will automatically perform the last selected command continuously.


I am pretty sure that it can be done with a high scripting knowledge even in VX Ace.


That would be great to see in VX Ace for sure. I haven't seen any ATB like that made yet.

 

[Oddball]

Yami's Classical ATB. That one includes charge rate for skills.

DoubleX made some great fixes for that ATB system and he also made a bunch of neat addons for it too.

One of the addon is a script which makes the default speed of the ATB gauge dependent on a formula you have set up. The formula can include (and includes by default in the addon) individual AGI bonus for each actor separately.

Another addon includes a cooldown system, which is also dependent on AGI of battlers.

Basically, if you get the custom ATB formula addon for it and set it up to use AGI in the formula, everything will be dependent on that formula, the ATB filling speed, the skill charging speed and the cooldown speed.

You can also make states like "Haste", "Slow" and even "Stop" if you combine some of DoubleX's addons.

Btw, from what I understood, you want to make an ATB system like the one used in FF12 (3 hours fighting against Yiazmat... good old times ). You can set your commands anytime in the battle for each actor, and when the ATB fills up, it will automatically perform the last selected command continuously.

I am pretty sure that it can be done with a high scripting knowledge even in VX Ace.

That would be great to see in VX Ace for sure. I haven't seen any ATB like that made yet.

not exactly what i had in mind. I don't want the charecter to just repeat the action over and over untill you select something else. and i don't want ATB filling speed, charging speed and cooldown speed. I would only want the ATB filling speed.

just that you select the action FIRST. then it fills up, the action is preformed. then, right away after the action is preformed, you select another action. that's how i saw it in my head.

Also, you never mentioned tying in the speed modifications on the skills with AGI, and going off % for the modifications. like a skill at 200% skill speed would only fill up twice as fast as if the charecter used a skill at speed 100%. 150% would fill up inbetween, and 50% would fill up half as fast.

 

[Sixth]

You could set the default ATB fill gauge speed to always start at full with a formula too.


After this, you would need to change the formula for the charge rate for skills to use the actor's AGI (eliminate the default ATB speed dependence in the charge rate formula and add-in the actor AGI formula from the ATB fill rate addon). You can copy/paste some bits of codes here and there to make this without much problem.


Then setup the charge rate for each skill individually.


I haven't mentioned the speed modifications in the skill database, because the charge speed for the skills are setup with note-tags instead of that default setup, but the result is the same. You can set an individual charge rate speed for each skill making it possible to create quicker and slower skills at will.


By doing all this, you can have what you want, I think.


I will try to setup these for you later if you want, but I'm off to sleep now.

 

[Oddball]

I don't want to set charge rates of skills individualy. I want them to tie into AGI. I don't want to start on full, that sound like it would be too complicated. what? the gauge would empty, then fill up, the skill would charge then go off and you pick something else? this tottaly defeats what I'm trying to do

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

I don't want to set charge rates of skills individualy. I want them to tie into AGI.

You would still set them to tie with the AGI, individually, else how would you expect the game to know the speed of each skill?.. So you'd be setting them individually no matter which path you take.

 

[Oddball]

You would still set them to tie with the AGI, individually, else how would you expect the game to know the speed of each skill?.. So you'd be setting them individually no matter which path you take.

I'd like it so that the default is 100% though, to save a lot of work for skills that don't use higher or lower skill speed

 

[Sixth]

The ATB gauge would not be empty, it would be full always.

The charge skill operates like a 2nd ATB, meaning it will show the gauge filling up on charging too, and once it is full, the skill goes off.

So, by starting the default ATB always at full, you will get only one ATB gauge filling up.

This is exactly what you described, I have read your last post multiple time to make sure I don't misunderstand sonething.

Setting up the skills for a default charge rate would take around 2 minutes even for more than 200 skills, it is just copy/paste really.