A lack of animation worries

[JessieK]

So I'm currently working on an RPG maker game with my own original art, the idea is to try to avoid as much "standard" RPG maker assets.


My current worry is that even when avoiding using there assets my game will look...cheap and unprofessional, because simply put there will be no animation.


My combat system doesn't use the side view at all, and the enemies you fight won't be moving. Do you think gamers of today are okay with this as long as there is enough verity of static 2d art or do they expect a little more from the games art direction (Such as animation in or out of battles) 


Secondly do you think there is a way to make static 2d art a little more engaging, is this were more "over the top" effects work well for example.

 

[Skunk]

It honestly depends on so many things.


Some new age gamers LOVE games that are thinking outside the box, meanwhile others LOVE the traditional look and feel of rpg maker, playing someone elses game that looks like yours can give you some amazing insight into what you can do with your project.


I suggest if you are using your own art work, take a look at others who have done the same thing and see what they did to either compensate or work around the fact... animations are hard, and not everyone is an amazing pixel artist.


I hope this helps

 

[BigToastie]

You will never make everyone happy, as people's likes and dislikes in games vary.


I personally am very open to trying any type of game, as long as the story is good, the graphics (if custom) are done well.


Still games in term of fighting are fine, as long as your effects from using magics and spells is custom and pleasing to see.


you use a skill called "1000000 slashes of death rage FIRE" and it does the basic slash, is rather underwhelming!


also like the above said, check out other peoples games who used custom art as it may give you inspiration for your own design

 

[cekobico]

I am rarely interested with games that disallow me from looking at my own squad. Therefore, I am easily demotivated from trying games that doesn't offer a way for me to look at my own characters moving and showcasing their grandiose skills that I grinded for hours to learn.


This is especially even more prominent in RPG Maker games that usually screams "I used default battle style" with no customization effort from the developer's side. LGD, however, customize front-view battle system enough for me to get engaged with it; so I think if you are minimizing usage of animations, it has to serve a purpose. 


Are you not using animations simply because lack of resources (which I deemed -I'm sorry if it's offensive-, lazy) or because you want to allow another aspect of your battle system to shine through and not be distracted by the animations? 


What is the reason for you to not use animations, if I may ask? (and by animation, do you mean the actual battle effects animations like Fire, Ice, etc or the lack of movement from the sprites displayed in battle?)

 

[Skunk]

Here's a good game to check out with mostly original artwork, echo is awesome. Much to be learned.


http://gaiasmelody.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Echo607

 

[bgillisp]

Considering I'm the type of gamer whose first move in most games is to go into the options and turn off the animations because I don't want to watch your 15 second attack animation 100000x while playing the game, no, having no animations is not that big a deal.

 

[JessieK]

I am rarely interested with games that disallow me from looking at my own squad. Therefore, I am easily demotivated from trying games that doesn't offer a way for me to look at my own characters moving and showcasing their grandiose skills that I grinded for hours to learn.


This is especially even more prominent in RPG Maker games that usually screams "I used default battle style" with no customization effort from the developer's side. LGD, however, customize front-view battle system enough for me to get engaged with it; so I think if you are minimizing usage of animations, it has to serve a purpose. 


Are you not using animations simply because lack of resources (which I deemed -I'm sorry if it's offensive-, lazy) or because you want to allow another aspect of your battle system to shine through and not be distracted by the animations? 


What is the reason for you to not use animations, if I may ask? (and by animation, do you mean the actual battle effects animations like Fire, Ice, etc or the lack of movement from the sprites displayed in battle?)

I meant battle animations sorry to not be clear there.


And it may sound lazy but as a single developer it's very hard to create animations alone.


For example I can draw 40 details pictures or I can draw 320 animated pictures of the same enemy with 8 frames of animation (Which isn't even that much looking more at 12 - 15 which is 480 - 600 frames to draw) it's just too much work if I want to actually finish this game within any decent time span (under 3 years haha) 
Or I could draw 80 different unique looking enemies in less time with no animations, which will create more verity. Just seems to be the more sensible option to someone trying to finish a project alone. And yet part of me really want's to animate everything, maybe for a short game.


The idea of my game is to change the game from looking like a "RPG maker game" so the battle hud, menu screens and everything will look different and pop a little hopefully that'll be enough to not have it dismissed right away. 


Obviously attacking effects and what not will still be used, but the enemies just won't be moving around. 

 

[bgillisp]

@JessieKI think you mean what we call animated enemies. Battle animations are usually referring to what shows when you select a skill to use in battle. And as for animated enemies, considering there are almost very few animated enemies in existence for RPGMaker (at least that are legal to use) I think you'll be fine.

 

[cekobico]

I meant battle animations sorry to not be clear there.


And it may sound lazy but as a single developer it's very hard to create animations alone.


For example I can draw 40 details pictures or I can draw 320 animated pictures of the same enemy with 8 frames of animation (Which isn't even that much looking more at 12 - 15 which is 480 - 600 frames to draw) it's just too much work if I want to actually finish this game within any decent time span (under 3 years haha) 
Or I could draw 80 different unique looking enemies in less time with no animations, which will create more verity. Just seems to be the more sensible option to someone trying to finish a project alone. And yet part of me really want's to animate everything, maybe for a short game.


The idea of my game is to change the game from looking like a "RPG maker game" so the battle hud, menu screens and everything will look different and pop a little hopefully that'll be enough to not have it dismissed right away. 


Obviously attacking effects and what not will still be used, but the enemies just won't be moving around. 

Then you would want to cut corners! xD


My battle sprites for actors will be drawn in detached limb parts and I will rotate them as means of animations. Spine 2D can do this, but until it is fully supported with RMMV, I will have to do it manually with Ctrl+T in Photoshop. 


For enemies, I will be using 3D renders with animations arranged into spritesheets; but they will be rendered in cel-shaded look so they don't look too realistic and out-of-place with the actor and battlebacks. I'm using Blender, for the record, which is free and have tons of tutorials on youtube and blogs; I suggest if you don't mind becoming a jack-of-all-trades, go learn it. It's quite easy to use imho rather than them pricey Maya/Max. 


Additionally, thanks to using Blender, I only use 4-5 RTP Battle Animations xD. Everything else I generate using the software's Particle System. 

 

[Warboss74]

I would suggest Yanfly's Battle Engine Core and Animated Enemies if you want to add a bit more to your static battlers. (Breathing and Float effects)

 

[Skunk]

Im also gonna leave this here


http://yanfly.moe/2015/12/13/yep-44-animated-sideview-enemies/

 

[Skunk]

I would suggest Yanfly's Battle Engine Core and Animated Enemies if you want to add a bit more to your static battlers. (Breathing and Float effects)

You beat me to it! lol

 

[JessieK]

Im also gonna leave this here


http://yanfly.moe/2015/12/13/yep-44-animated-sideview-enemies/

I know HOW animation works in RPG maker MV that wasn't my concern, whilst yanflys engine is awesome it does still require me to do a lot of work to get a unit to be animated to the quality I am holding myself too.

Then you would want to cut corners! xD


My battle sprites for actors will be drawn in detached limb parts and I will rotate them as means of animations. Spine 2D can do this, but until it is fully supported with RMMV, I will have to do it manually with Ctrl+T in Photoshop. 


For enemies, I will be using 3D renders with animations arranged into spritesheets; but they will be rendered in cel-shaded look so they don't look too realistic and out-of-place with the actor and battlebacks. I'm using Blender, for the record, which is free and have tons of tutorials on youtube and blogs; I suggest if you don't mind becoming a jack-of-all-trades, go learn it. It's quite easy to use imho rather than them pricey Maya/Max. 


Additionally, thanks to using Blender, I only use 4-5 RTP Battle Animations xD. Everything else I generate using the software's Particle System. 

Do you not feel that allows you less detail in the enemies though? I'd rather not cut corners and feel like I have a slightly uncanny look to the game purely for the effect of having someone flap or breath.


I guess the question is, do you think it's a good trade off. Quality for animation, and Quantity for animation. Both of which even with cutting corners I feel need to be lowered in order of having any hopes of finishing a product.

 

[Skunk]

I will be honest with you then, what you are asking is a tiny bit unrealistic with the current version of MV.


I am not trying to explain HOW animation works, I am showing you a script you may be able to modify to suit your needs.


It sounds like you are looking for a "quick fix" and there just isn't one yet.

 

[JessieK]

I will be honest with you then, what you are asking is a tiny bit unrealistic with the current version of MV.


I am not trying to explain HOW animation works, I am showing you a script you may be able to modify to suit your needs.


It sounds like you are looking for a "quick fix" and there just isn't one yet.

Huh? No I am well aware of how hard animation is, which is why I was asking "Is it worth the work or can I do without" not "How do I do this, fix it for me"


I'm curious where I came off as someone who's wanting a plugin or something to do the work for me, I am asking if the work load is worth it and if the sacrifice in quality of art was worth it.


You got the wrong end of the wrong stick.


Also everything I am saying is very possible in RPG MV with that plugin, it's just you'd have to draw a ton of frames, which takes time. Hence the question of the post.

 

[cekobico]

Do you not feel that allows you less detail in the enemies though?

How less? 

 

[JessieK]

How less? 

Well just due to how hard animation can be, if you have a highly detailed character it's even harder to animate them cause you have to redraw the part you want to move every time. (Or you can cut and move but that looks odd)


Static pictures can be as complex as you want as they will never move it's just how long you're willing to spend drawing them. Animated pictures I feel you have to have some restraint a lower quality picture to make animation a little easier, and even then I feel animation takes a massive amount of time and work even for simple motions, I should make it very clear I am an animation newbie so correct me if I am saying anything way out of line.

 

[cekobico]

Well just due to how hard animation can be, if you have a highly detailed character it's even harder to animate them cause you have to redraw the part you want to move every time. (Or you can cut and move but that looks odd)


Static pictures can be as complex as you want as they will never move it's just how long you're willing to spend drawing them. Animated pictures I feel you have to have some restraint a lower quality picture to make animation a little easier, and even then I feel animation takes a massive amount of time and work even for simple motions, I should make it very clear I am an animation newbie so correct me if I am saying anything way out of line.

On the contrary, you can be as detailed as you can with the rotatable-limbs approach rather than drawing frame-per-frame a la spriting. 


Coz your focus will be on that individual limbs that you want to animate. How crazy do you want to draw the details, when all it takes to animate them is simple warping/distortion and rotation. Take a look at this Spine 2D workflow video. Look at how each moveable limbs are drawn separately. While purchasing the software simplify the workflow, you can go the 'free-route' like I do and emulate it with rotating/transforming them manually in your graphics editor. 

 

[JessieK]

On the contrary, you can be as detailed as you can with the rotatable-limbs approach rather than drawing frame-per-frame a la spriting. 


Coz your focus will be on that individual limbs that you want to animate. How crazy do you want to draw the details, when all it takes to animate them is simple warping/distortion and rotation. Take a look at this Spine 2D workflow video. Look at how each moveable limbs are drawn separately. While purchasing the software simplify the workflow, you can go the 'free-route' like I do and emulate it with rotating/transforming them manually in your graphics editor. 

Thanks very much I will take a look, honestly I might look much more in to animation, I've been looking around and it seems the more "stand out" stuff uses animated enemies and players, so it's something I will try, if you have any more tips please PM me I am always open to hearing how others work. If it ends up not being a massive time sink I might move a lot of my work over to that.

 

[cekobico]

Thanks very much I will take a look, honestly I might look much more in to animation, I've been looking around and it seems the more "stand out" stuff uses animated enemies and players, so it's something I will try, if you have any more tips please PM me I am always open to hearing how others work. If it ends up not being a massive time sink I might move a lot of my work over to that.

You're welcome! I myself am not much in the illustration industry as I am more in the 3D animation process. Being able to create intricate design while animating them at ease has been enjoyable for me (though the downsides is, sometimes I put too much distracting details and forget that less is indeed more lol). 


Likewise, feel free to PM me if you needed help and guides in animations. The learning curve may seem steep at first, but when you get used to it, you'll be surprised on how much time is saved by not redrawing the same thing over and over.