A New RPG Maker draws near! Command?

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pasunna

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ahh... can I skip to December?
I don't like the situation that I keep sitting on top of my hand
to keep it waiting for clue
before heavy metal work on my game that will gonna port to the new one
because I will never finish it before the new one stable...
 

MikePjr

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It hasn't stopped shocking me how negative some people are about something they spent absolutely no time or effort in making.

I just want to say, thank you Degica, Kadokowa and all the people who worked on making this new engine a reality. There are plenty of us who sincerely appreciate your work. <3 <3 <3
I'm pretty sure it's within the CONSUMERS right to be critical of a PRODUCT.
These engines are not a labor of love, they're products that are worked on and sold to make money.
The comment of negativity only makes sense if the folks working on these products weren't getting paid, and i'm sure they do.
I'm going to be negative, because i was not 100% happy with the last product.
I'm going to be critical of things and give my thoughts, and that doesn't hurt anything because i'm not being rude or mean.
I'm not cursing, and i'm not insulting them.
I'm speaking my mind ON A PRODUCT line.
 
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Skurge

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Keen to see what the new one offers, hopefully some sort of MV conversion would be nice too, some of us don't work as fast as others on projects to complete them before a new program releases.

I really hope this program combines all the cool things MV and XP did with graphics and layers, audio etc. Quite honestly MV's RTP was lack luster.
 

Dalph

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All I want here is (this is important):

- More mapping layers to make complex maps without parallaxing.
- Better performance and stability overall.
- GUI editing implemented by default.

As for the RTP (this is just an extra):

- NO squared RTP tilesets, I always hated the Minecraft cubic look of VX/ACE/MV.
- NO ballonhead sprites (MV only)
I prefer a return of VX/ACE styled chibis, or even better "tallish' sprites, basically a hybrid between XP and VX or even 2k3. Anything that doesn't make the character heads look like balloons (sorry Harold)... :hswt:

The RTP stuff isn't really important because it's just a base, but it's always fun to use it and make quick joke games.
 

K2loid

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Am I the minority who like the chibi sprite more?
I think no one has beef with the overworld sprites beyond the fact the spritework is just abysmal. The the sideview, on the other hand, gets a lot of flack for its art style specifically because of how cramped it is. Even kewpie dolls have friendlier proportions. Playing with the style isn't possible either; You can't give them serious refaces because it looks goofy, and you can't give them simplified faces because they're so detailed it looks jarring. I always use frontview battle so I don't have to look at them. Common sense dictates if you have a battle system with a bigger canvas the characters become clearer so the fighting looks better...why would you just...Increase Orb......

Personally, I'd love a blown up version of the wonderful 2003 sideview proportions; they've got clear silhouettes and they're stylistically flexible.

ACTUALLY speaking of sequestering myself in frontview, the fact all the enemies face right even though the compositioning is SOOOOOOOOOO BAAAAAAAAAAAAD on sideview is criminal. Compare this absolute train wreck of a complication pile-on;

2K3: Battle screen can be completely customized, from the terrain perspective to the exact positioning of each unit. Different layouts based on attacking style. Information like character detail and posing is clear even if this was on your DS on the other side of the room. The starkness of the art style also makes it easy to identify units when they're all clustered together. I don't like that it has a default of Squish and Squish (with some breathing room). UI uglee but at least you can have uglee flavours

MV: You can position monsters. The default layout clearly shows the characters. Which is good, because you can't actually change the layout. If you want to edit the background for events...no <3 You may have noticed the massive nothingness above the characters; It's probably for really big enemies. "Can't they just adjust the perspective so it's less noticeable." "Can't they just use the old perspective map". No. The abyss <3 Most people manually add widescreen, which is Even More Abyss, and you have to personally set the characters back, because again, nooooo custom positioning <3 If the user uses RTP that way, its just the hideous little orbs lost in the endless canvas. Which isn't great, because while the characters are chock full of detail, the cramped, squished up chibi style with murky pixel art makes movement low-impact and almost entirely dependent on weapons. That lack of impact is compartmentalized by the fact they don't have a silhouette, only Orb and Weapon, so seeing at a distance (or at a low-res screen recording) makes it visual soup. UI also uglee but for the soulless font this time. You can't even change the layout to shake it up, just sadness and plugins you downloaded off a wordpress blog

And the ENEMY ART IS BUILT AROUND YOU CHOOSING THIS ON PURPOSE

Um. I was trained on XP, Dread God Of Function Stripping, and only bought 2003 recently so I didn't realize how Nothing MV is. Golly. Hello? New editor? Spare new editor????
 

BCj

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Oh man, I forgot how much better 2k3 was. The Mv sprites nearly blend in with the background compared to 2k3 :(
 

Lihinel

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Any timeline on the reveals?

I am mainly interested if the RTP and Mapping system goes more into the direction of the XP and includes a character generator. If so, I might seriously consider purchasing it and restarting my project, as it might save a lot of time later on. If not, I think I'll give this maker a pass until my current project is finished.

(Right now I use XP Graphics and Parallax Maps on MV)
 

MikePjr

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I still experiment with 2K3 sprites. They're a rather easy style to work with.
Making a new sprite in that style is pretty easy.
I guess i'm kind of hoping that the next maker, makes things more approachable for folks who want to do the older 16x16 style of graphics.. ya know, without doing funky work arounds.
 

Touchfuzzy

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Touchfuzzy said this upcoming week there will come some more infos.
For more detail: there will be weekly big announces, each at the same time (Early Thurs morning, it's coordinated with the JP announces so it is a weird time for NA). That is where most of the big information will be.
 

Tai_MT

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While that is true, several of the requests in this thread are about stuff like "tactical/action battle systems", "pixel movement", 3D or other functionality that is not baseline. RPG Maker needs to be a framework. Anything that exists within it must not get in the way of the user. Having a tactical battle system hardcoded in the base engine would get in the way of any user that's not making a tactical RPG.
I see you missed my point about only including the "industry standards". 3D isn't an "industry standard". It is a Stylistic Choice. Pixel Movement could also be considered a "Stylistic Choice". "Action Battle Systems" isn't an Industry Standard either. Nor are "Tactical Battle Systems". These are genres of games to be more precise. There's a world of difference between a Turn Based RPG and a Tactical Based RPG.

Though, perhaps there's a separate point to be made there. If there are potential customers who want to create these types of games, perhaps there's money to be made in creating RPG Makers that cater to those specific genres.

But, no, I do not expect the next RPG Maker to cater to those crowds as those aren't "industry standards" for Turn-Based RPG's, which is what RPG Maker has always been. They're not even all that heavily requested features for the engine.

However, something like "Active Turn Battles" where speed fills a meter and then you get a turn... That's more in line with an "Industry Standard" for Turn Based RPG's. It's frequently requested and even used.

So that's the distinction to keep in mind. New features are welcome, but only stuff that is baseline; anything that's specific to a project should be a plugin and not base engine.
Yes, anything specific and relatively "unique" to a project should be a plugin or a script. Not things everyone changes or requests plugins for constantly.

Which, if we're honest... Eliminates most of the plugins and scripts people post on these forums. At least, if they're made "standard" to the maker.

Wrong. The purpose of a plugin or script should be to do something that is not integrated with the base engine for the aforementioned reasons. Trying to make every feature that 20%+ of the users of the program has ever thought about something that's deployed within the base engine is pure insanity. Giving that to us as free, or even paid, DLC, would be an act of generosity.
Why are you contradicting yourself? You were doing a fine job agreeing with me that plugins should be used for things specific to a project, and then you go and say that something that 80% of users would use and request is the purpose of the plugin.

No. No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no. The purpose of a plugin is to do something fairly unique to your own project. It is not to add basic functionality and common features to the base program because the devs of said program were too lazy or too short-sighted to even know what the Industry Standards are.

If 80% of the users of your program are requesting the ability to resize windows or have greater control over customizing those windows... Guess what? That's not a job for a plugin! That's a job for the devs to implement into their next iteration! INDUSTRY STANDARD. If 80% of your users request and use a "Quest Journal" plugin... INDUSTRY STANDARD.

The purpose of a plugin or a script is to cater to the 20% who request "niche" things. "I want a Stagger System in my game, and it needs to fit X specifications". Okay, script or plugin for it. Not many people use it. Not many people request it. That is the purpose of a script or plugin.

It is pure insanity not to include features that 80% of your users want, request, or need. That's just bad business. Heaven help you if someone else ever comes along and offers you a program similar to yours, but it does the 80% of things the customer base does while you refuse to. You've just been put out of business if that happens. Can you imagine that? Someone comes along and advertises, "It's like RPG Maker, except it's better!" and it does all the things the devs refuse to make standard? Yeah, there goes your customer base. There goes all that wasted dev time into the new product you wanted to sell, because you refused to cater to the majority of your potential customer base.

It's just business. If you want to keep customers, you cater to those customers.

"Good customers are as rare as Latinum. Treasure Them."

It's a complete overhaul in the base framework / backbone / code that makes the engine run. Even if it superficially looks the same, it's still something new that gives us a large amount of new options. If you don't need them, then you shouldn't buy the new RPG Maker.
MV might feel similar to Ace, but things have been achieved within it that, because of the updated framework, could hardly have been achieved with Ace.
I have a hunch that the new MV will look even more similar (superficially) to MV but will give us a ton of power, and it's technology that the devs are now familiar with and could greatly improve and polish (unlike 5 years ago when they released MV)
If it's just an overhaul of that stuff, then I expect it to be an update to the existing program rather than an entirely new paid product. After all, we're dealing with software here and not hardware. If you just update/upgrade your software to be more efficient in terms of code and such, then it's just an update.

I will refuse to pay for such an update as it's a ripoff (this isn't hyperbole, this is fact).

I'll buy a completely overhauled engine that implements Industry Standards in place and has more resources available within. As in, I'll buy a completely new product if it's good enough. I'm not going to drop money on the same product just because the devs figured out in 5 years they can make code more efficient.

Let them roll out an update to the existing program if that's all they're going to change/fix. Don't rip me off by trying to sell me the same product again, "except better, 'cause we know how to optimize our code this time".

Customers should not have to pay for dev/designer oversight.

But yeah, my guess is that the new RM will be a rebuild/heavy improvement over MV, with the team going back to the drawing board and rebuilding the engine from scratch with the acquired expertise, and technological improvement, of 5 years dealing with JavaScript, to deliver a product that is sturdier, more modern, more compatible, easier to program in, while delivering a familiar toolset.
This is my guess as well... and why I'm not eager to drop money on it. Without a complete overhaul of every feature and implementation of Industry Standards, there is little reason to buy it. There are faster ways to get rid of money, like throwing it off a bridge.

It is simply asinine to create a product that is a "slight improvement" over the last one and try to sell it at "full price". Though, I guess there are enough stupid customers that companies like Apple can get away with it year after year.

We've got a 5 year gap here. What I expect of a company that took 5 years between products is to have been doing a ton of market research and built an engine with all the most requested features in it as well as most common plugins used, as part of the backbone.

If all we have to show for 5 years of time between releases is, "here's a new feature, and we overhauled all the code", then I seriously wonder how they're managing their money over there at the company. Mismanagement of Resources does not often make for a strong-standing company.
 
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Velvela Jade

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If I have the funds, I'll buy it as long as the platform will work for me. However, it really does have to be a real upgrade and not just basic improvements. If I don't get more functionality, more game types I can make with it in an easier way, then I will wait to buy it. If I get 5 more tabs I can use for images, then you might actually sell me, even if that is the only new feature (which I highly doubt you even thought about adding).

1. I would like to see all of the Yanfly plugins updated and made native to the new game maker. I'd also love to see 2d and 3d gaming making options in the same game maker. With so many plugins that are good, going behind paid walls, if we lose a computer, we have to now buy what before we had natively its just sad. I've not found my backups yet. And way too many plugins have developers who just quit. This is why the game maker needs to be better and not need so many plugins just to get a great game made. It would be easier for me to pay $10 more to you guys, all at once, so that the plugin makers can get paid their $5 - $10 share, then to try and buy it through paypal name from Euro currency and other headaches.

2. Want to have sure hit? Git rid of arbitrary limits! I do get that you wouldn't need such and such therefore I shouldn't either. However, I am not Japanese. I do not subscribe to the one size fits all mentality. As to the arbitrary limits set in place in MV, I'm over it! We don't need it. Just because "the you" won't use 15 tabs, 5000 variables, 2000 events on the same map and so on, does not means "the me" won't use 15 tabs and so on. I love thinking games and to think. I don't need kill'm KISS principle and stay stupid games. My mother hated intelligence and abused me, which is why I love and play thinking games. All RPG game makers, no matter the version, are all alike in their purpose - create a kill'm questing game only. Awesome because people love that! But, if you were to expand a bit, some of us thinkings and intelligent would also love it. ;)

3. Ability to make Platformer, questing, battling, puzzles, escape and other type of games in the same game maker, sudoku games, sokoban games without having to script would be awesome. With maybe a $10 addon for sudoku generator with X factor, jigsaw puzzle, etc. with $5 payble to the Japanese Math teacher behind Sudoku and $5 for your headache for trying to make this - excellent! I'd pay it!

4. More tilesets coming with the maker. Currently, I have to make my own images if I want something that works for my game. Yes, I do buy tilesets too! But, I need 100% of all tilesets that I buy in your store, to be useable in commercial games, or I'm just wasting my time. I won't buy tilesets restricted to non-commercial use. If these tilesets were awesome and immense enough, it might sell the game better.

5. What would it take to have a game maker that allows you to make games that look like they came from you name the year 1980s - 2020. That would be brilliant and would give rpg game maker more credence in the peanut gallery world. This would mean 3D characters and worlds and 2D characters and worlds.

Thanks! Even if you ignore, burn, trash, whatever negative action you want to insert here, what I said, I'd most likely still buy the game because it IS still a game maker that doesn't require me to program everything. I just hope that you guys do implement what 80% of the people want in that game maker and still do not throw us little guys, under the bus like 99% of all other game makers do.

Many thanks! I do greatly appreciate your hard work even if I do not get what I want. And thanks for the JS as that is one coding language I can wrap my mind around to a point.
 
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PixelHeart

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In the event that the next RM is capable of rendering 3D assets, I hope that using 2d assets will still be supported :<

EDIT: ... cuz I just remembered that Touchfuzzy said earlier that all presently available assets would still be usable. So we good ;)
 

jonthefox

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Since there has been so much discussion of QoL improvements with the editor and code and features, I want to mention a simple thing that I don't see why should not be an option....by default, rpg maker has always only allowed parameter values to be increased or decreased multiplicatively.

When I create a state, i should be able to say "+50 DEF" or "-50 DEF" as an attribute, not only have the option to say "+50% DEF" or "-50% DEF".
 

Andar

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I want to mention a simple thing that I don't see why should not be an option...
because from a game balancing point as well as a programmer's point it is not as simple as it looks like from a player's point.
And that is with additive results, because if you look more closely neither +50 DEF nor +50% DEF exists in the engine. The trait you're talking about are multiplicative *150% DEF and that is for a lot of reasons.
 

Redeye

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@jonthefox On top of that, I think we should also have the power to have more / less than 6 parameters. What if I only wanted to use ATK, DEF, and AGI? I'd have to do some tricky coding to hide the other parameters from the UI, which would be a pain. If I wanted a 7th parameter... I don't even know what that would take in order to use it in formulas, on top of the UI issue.
 

Chaos17

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Edit: I spoke out of the line :LZSoops:
 
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Finding it amusing that people are posting support questions in new threads for an engine that isn't even released yet. Touch and Archeia are the only ones authorised to say anything, and there's only one active thread where they'll be answering questions.
I think my goal for MZ ... is to actually release a game and not have twenty technical demos and debugging projects. Let's see if I can manage that. ;o
I am starting to enjoy writing. I never thought I would enjoy it since my dyslexia was holding me back so much.
Thanks to the community here :)
For those interested chapter 2 and 3 are available to read here:
I'm having a fun time working with the MZ RTP. The waterfall hasn't changed, though, so I'm wondering if they didn't make a new one or if they forgot to put it in...

good progress on the typescript Definitions files almost done all the Manager and yet I still have to do the Battle Manager...who is seriously so much data lol

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