A rule against continously questioning people's game design decisions/philosophies in development support forums after they have already explained it.

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Philosophus Vagus

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See a big problem here with the entire premise of this thread is that people aren't mind readers, and just because you feel you've explained what you want adequately from the perspective of someone who doesn't actually know what is needed to accomplish what you want doesn't necessarily mean that that is true. I've basically checked out from looking through support threads personally because of people who don't provide enough details, or leave out context that ends up ultimately meaning that I waste my time trying to help them because what they say they want doesn't actually facilitate what they are trying to accomplish and so when given what they say they want they respond with vitriol or when asked for clarification to make sure I'm not wasting my time before trying to help them they rant at me for wasting theirs or they get mad when with more context it turns out that its beyond my scope of capability to help with after all.

I'd say to stop taking what you perceive as pointless questionings so personally, because it is rare if ever the intent of the questioner to waste your time maliciously, more often than not that's the opposite of the intent, though good intentions can sometimes result in bad results. Still, even in those cases, the idea of moderating people to that degree is concerning, and I would be finished with this site entirely if such a thing were ever to actually be implemented.

This is a forum, discussion is basically the entire point of being here. You ask for free help expect to get mixed results, there are smart people here and sometimes they find something interesting and swoop in and give you exactly what you need with no hassle merely because it piques their interest to do so, other times someone less smart but trying to learn will come by and try to help you as a personal learning experience, and those results are going to be more of a mixed bag. But in either case you are going to have to justify why your request is worth someone else's limited time, because you aren't giving them any incentive beyond altruism and curiosity to help you in the first place.

If you don't want to deal with that my suggestion would be to go to the classifieds and find one of those smart people to pay to solve your problems regardless of whether or not the prospect piques their interest, because you aren't going to get what you seem to think you want by trying to moderate the free support portion of the forums to weed out everyone who doesn't just come in with an answer straight away, what would more likely than not happen is your support thread would simply die.
 

Mike-Turtle

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What an interesting read!

While I agree with the OP, inasmuch as I have seen threads questioning design philosophy quite harshly. Especially threads with topics regarding issues of:
  • map size limitations
  • number of events on screen
  • number of parallel processes
There is usually a good reason behind it, and good motivations behind those asking the questions, and offering alternatives. I've never seen a design philosophy harshly questioned on battle system choice, protagonist choice, or art style however.
 

lianderson

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One of the most annoying conversations in my life, was a close friend of mine telling me how to make my game without even realizing it was 2d.
 

coyotecraft

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They mean well. But if it takes 20 questions to reach an understanding - who is helping who?
Its courteous to provide examples. But if they are that eager to help, they can research it themselves.
Ive also seen some mods threaten to close a thread because the poster wasn't following their commands.
*Post screenshots*
*show me*
I know there's users that practically live on the forum. I think they need reminding this is a public place. They didn't come to you, you came to them.
 

Iron_Brew

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They mean well. But if it takes 20 questions to reach an understanding - who is helping who?
Its courteous to provide examples. But if they are that eager to help, they can research it themselves.
Ive also seen some mods threaten to close a thread because the poster wasn't following their commands.
*Post screenshots*
*show me*
I know there's users that practically live on the forum. I think they need reminding this is a public place. They didn't come to you, you came to them.

I'm confused as to what you mean by this; if someone comes to the forums and asks for help how am I meant to "research it myself" if they are not specific enough?

Let's take a question: "I want to make a job system like FFV"

What are you specifically setting out to emulate? Is it switching jobs? Is it job leveling separate to character leveling? Is it the menus used to do so? Is it the graphical systems involved? How far are you able to get on your own? What plugins are you already using? Did you use FFV because that's the only example you're familiar with or because you want it to be exactly like FFV? Do you need the information handed off to you or do you need specifics for implementation? Do you have all the assets you're looking to use? Have you considered the implications of what your design means for your game or is it just 'I want this system from this game I like'?

If I just go and "research the job system from FFV myself" I don't have the context needed to actually help the person asking.

Questions are a necessary part of the process of collaborative development, and if people get defensive rather than clearly and concisely communicating what it is they're trying to achieve then the issue is with the person asking for help, not the person trying to do the helping.
 

coyotecraft

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I'm confused as to what you mean by this; if someone comes to the forums and asks for help how am I meant to "research it myself" if they are not specific enough?

Let's take a question: "I want to make a job system like FFV"

What are you specifically setting out to emulate? Is it switching jobs? Is it job leveling separate to character leveling? Is it the menus used to do so? Is it the graphical systems involved? How far are you able to get on your own? What plugins are you already using? Did you use FFV because that's the only example you're familiar with or because you want it to be exactly like FFV? Do you need the information handed off to you or do you need specifics for implementation? Do you have all the assets you're looking to use? Have you considered the implications of what your design means for your game or is it just 'I want this system from this game I like'?

If I just go and "research the job system from FFV myself" I don't have the context needed to actually help the person asking.

Questions are a necessary part of the process of collaborative development, and if people get defensive rather than clearly and concisely communicating what it is they're trying to achieve then the issue is with the person asking for help, not the person trying to do the helping.
You don't. You can't. You stay out of the topic. You don't take it personally because it wasn't directed at you.
Edit: i mean, if you've never played final fantasy. How much help can you be, when you are expected to be familar with it? Let someone else answer the question.
 

Iron_Brew

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You don't. You can't. You stay out of the topic. You don't take it personally because it wasn't directed at you.
Edit: i mean, if you've never played final fantasy. How much help can you be, when you are expected to be familar with it? Let someone else answer the question.

I'm confused by the stance you're taking here. The question posited was so ambiguous that not asking follow up questions would only cause wasted work all round.

Nobody could answer that question. That's the point I was highlighting; I'm familiar with the job system in FFV but there's a lot of elements to it, and the question asker might only want some, or not know what they want and be benefited by the discussion.

Like, my whole point was that even if you are familiar with the subject matter you still won't be able to help without asking questions. "Researching it yourself" doesn't make any sense.

The idea that we should mind-read and make assumptions is only going to lead to people getting bad, unactionable advice.
 
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coyotecraft

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Edit: I apologize for the formatting. Typing long posts on a phone is a pain.

But you don't know what other people know.
And you're allowed to make assumptions about their skill and knowledge level.
This is another problem i see. Someone will claim to know 20 different ways of doing something. But they'll refuse to take a guess, and post 1. But they won't walk away either.
They are afraid to be wrong. They want the satisfaction of being right. Hellfire and damnation on anyone that'll deny them that. That's hyperbole btw. No. What they'll do is deflect their insecurities. As if to say "I'm not incompetent! You are!"
"Its not my fault! Its your fault."
For whatever reason the mods will stand behind this kind of harassment. Like ~oh, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There's nothing wrong with telling people to better themselves~
But if I jump to defend that person's honor and say, "I understood just fine. It's not them, it you".
Then suddenly I'm the bad guy that's harassing a member.
You know, people hold their tongues for a long time. An avalanche is inevitable once someone speaks up. The person who broke the silence shouldn't be responsible for the person who couldn't shut up.
The mods could prevent something like that. I think they have a one-sided interpretation of the forum's social inclusivity mandate. They should alleviate malice before someone accidentally incites a lynch mob.
We can't say "you are not helpful. Go away." Because when things get "elevated" a mod will lock the thread. Ironically excluding everyone else from participating. Which is just harboring malice towards the problematic individual. Sure we can ask the mod nicely to unlock the thread. But we can also just go to one of the hundred other "speakeasies".
I think that's what they call a morality sink. Shut down the brothel and the nunnery becomes the new house of sin.
 
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Sword_of_Dusk

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But if they are that eager to help, they can research it themselves.
That's not how that works. You don't go ask for help, then put the work on a potential helper to go research what is being asked. You put forth all pertinent details and explanations in order to maximize the chance of someone being able to help.


You don't. You can't. You stay out of the topic. You don't take it personally because it wasn't directed at you.
Edit: i mean, if you've never played final fantasy. How much help can you be, when you are expected to be familar with it? Let someone else answer the question.
And what if no one who decides to post in the topic is familiar with the game in question? Or what if they are, but has no idea how to go about helping the person asking for assistance? There's not always going to be a perfect person to answer a given question or aid in a request. What you're saying basically seems to amount to you wanting to be lazy about asking for help and requiring others to spend time researching what you could just put in your post to begin with. Why would anyone deign to help if you aren't willing to put in some effort too?


Someone will claim to know 20 different ways of doing something. But they'll refuse to take a guess, and post 1. But they won't walk away either.
They are afraid to be wrong.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe it actually matters and without enough info they can't advise someone efficiently?
 

RianQuenlin

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But if I jump to defend that person's honor and say, "I understood just fine. It's not them, it you".
Then suddenly I'm the bad guy that's harassing a member.
If I find myself having to tell someone this, I just add them to my blacklist instead. Not worth the mental stamina.
 

123edc

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*jumps in and randomly throws around 50 - cent*

maybe we should simply add a prefix,
"discussion encouraged",
"pls only answer, if you have a concrete answer / i don't answer "why's"

... then the people will see, that one gets answered and another ... well ... doesn't and can choose, if they want to answer questions or not ;)
 

Iron_Brew

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Edit: I apologize for the formatting. Typing long posts on a phone is a pain.

But you don't know what other people know.
And you're allowed to make assumptions about their skill and knowledge level.
This is another problem i see. Someone will claim to know 20 different ways of doing something. But they'll refuse to take a guess, and post 1. But they won't walk away either.
They are afraid to be wrong. They want the satisfaction of being right. Hellfire and damnation on anyone that'll deny them that. That's hyperbole btw. No. What they'll do is deflect their insecurities. As if to say "I'm not incompetent! You are!"
"Its not my fault! Its your fault."
For whatever reason the mods will stand behind this kind of harassment. Like ~oh, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There's nothing wrong with telling people to better themselves~
But if I jump to defend that person's honor and say, "I understood just fine. It's not them, it you".
Then suddenly I'm the bad guy that's harassing a member.
You know, people hold their tongues for a long time. An avalanche is inevitable once someone speaks up. The person who broke the silence shouldn't be responsible for the person who couldn't shut up.
The mods could prevent something like that. I think they have a one-sided interpretation of the forum's social inclusivity mandate. They should alleviate malice before someone accidentally incites a lynch mob.
We can't say "you are not helpful. Go away." Because when things get "elevated" a mod will lock the thread. Ironically excluding everyone else from participating. Which is just harboring malice towards the problematic individual. Sure we can ask the mod nicely to unlock the thread. But we can also just go to one of the hundred other "speakeasies".
I think that's what they call a morality sink. Shut down the brothel and the nunnery becomes the new house of sin.

Again, I am confused by the things you're saying. Nobody is talking about harrassment but you, you're acting like everyone here is acting in bad faith. You are absolutely right on one point though: I don't know what other people know, that's why I'm advocating for asking clarifying questions.

I don't think we're talking about the same things here. "Hellfire and damnation", "Clearly I'm the bad guy", "People hold their tongues", "It's not them, it's you" ,"Morality sink" - it sounds like you're having a different conversation about forum ettiquete based on your own negative experiences, while all I want is to get the information necessary to help people realise their vision.

I'm here to make video games and to help other people make video games, not to harrass people or have bizarre discussions. I am very confused by your attitude towards this subject, and to the way in which you're posting about it.

If you have gripes with the moderation of the forum, that's on you, but this thread really isn't about that and I am concerned that you're taking this to a weird and personal place.
 

HexMozart88

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@coyotecraft Your stance here just sounds like entitlement. "You should be able to know everything about what I'm saying and ask no questions. If you ask questions instead of doing all the work for me, you should be slandered by other members." I ask millions of questions when I take on a commission because I'm not going to waste my time trying to figure out what they want and end up doing it wrong. Also, you're saying if you don't know how the thing works, don't participate in the thread, but then you have those people who say "no one's responding to me!1!!!!1" And they whine and complain and spam the thread with "HELLO???" until someone responds. I think it's better for as many people to try and help as possible without people saying "well, why should I have to do any work? I asked the question, you should just know."

Also, when you're talking about Hellfire and Damnation, it makes me think that you're trying to bring up something different than question asking because I have literally never seen this.
 

Andar

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But if they are that eager to help, they can research it themselves.
That sentence is an insult to everyone who even tries to help.
Just a few facts to compare:

1) no one gets paid for any forum work here. Everyone who offers help here does so for free, instead of working on their own project.

2) the poster that has the question is asking other people to spend their time to help him/her make their game. And since he doesn't pay anything, he cannot make any demand but should be nice and try to make things as easy for those who he expecst to do the work for free as he can do.
he is not paying anything for that help, so he is not entitled to get anything!!!
On the contrary the poster should be commanded to make everything as easy for the one doing the work for free as possible, as part of his agreement to get the free work.

3) aspects of games are complex, and even if two people know everything about any game, they usually consider different aspects of that game with different importance.
Do you have any idea how often there were cases like "I want a battlesystem exactly like XY" - "Here you go, I made a plugin to replicate the UI exactly, all enemies and actors where you want them" - "NOOO, I wasn't talking about the stupid graphics, I wanted the damage calculation exactly like in that game".
The original poster has to add descriptions of what exactly he wants from any game instead of just saying a short "like XY" to prevent the free work from being wasted like that.


For those that do not like this - there is a classified section where they can get paid commissions instead of free requests. If they go there, then they are entitled to get their return based on the amount of payment they offer (battlesystems rarely go for less than 200$ however).
But as long as they want others to work for free for them, they can't demand things and have to answer questions if the one who does the free work thinks he need those answers.
And it doesn't matter if that work is just a small bughunt or a big plugin request.
 

TheAM-Dol

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I'm a little bit biased here. @coyotecraft was a life saver for one of my earlier threads. He probably doesn't remember me, but I certainly remember the amazing work he did for me. I had a tough question, he swooped in with some lines of code, but I'm a coding dummy, and so he spent the next few posts walking me through all my dumb questions.
I mean, reading coyotecraft's long post, I couldn't help but wonder "who hurt you?" but I sort of get what he's talking about too.
What I've noticed is that generally once the first response has been posted, a lot of the time, that's the last person who will help...It's not impossible, but it is somewhat uncommon for a second party to come in and offer their advice - I should say, that's the case for more "intermediate" questions. (Novice questions tend to get a lot of answers from many different people)
So in that regard, it certainly would be nice if smart people who KNOW the answer were the ones to always answer the thread, or otherwise, it would be nice if people would still be willing to step up to the plate even if the thread already has a few posts in it.
But I'm also aware of the reality:
for case A, not everyone present on the forums at all times know all the ins and outs of all things JS and RM. Getting any help is still greatly appreciated since it's better than getting ignored.
for case B, the deeper the thread goes in posts, the more time folks may have to commit just to get caught up to speed by reading all the older posts, and that can be an even great time sink in addition to whatever time is spent answering the question.

Anyways, stop picking on Coyotecraft. I understand him just fine. It's not him, it's you.
 

Arthran

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But if they are that eager to help, they can research it themselves.
I think that anyone who has this attitude is likely to have a very hard time getting the help that they need. If you want help, then it's in your best interest to help people help you. Taking a stance where you think that you're not only entitled to free help, but you're actually doing other people some kind of favor by gracing them with the opportunity to help you... is certainly your prerogative, but it's definitely not in your best interest. It will probably discourage people from wanting to help you (as a matter of principal), and it will limit their ability to help you even if they wanted to.

They didn't come to you, you came to them.
Uh, no? If you post a help request in the forum, then *you* are coming to other people for help--not the other way around.

i mean, if you've never played final fantasy. How much help can you be, when you are expected to be familar with it?
The point is that you *shouldn't* expect other people to be familiar with it. If you do that, then you're limiting your own chances of getting help. You're making it so that only people who are both capable of solving the problem *and* have played the game can possibly help you.

If instead, you can be bothered to put forth a little bit of effort in your help request, and explain exactly what it is that you want, then you will increase the pool of people that could possibly help you. If you explain exactly what mechanic you're trying to implement, then people don't *need* to have played the game to be able to help you.

For example, if I make a help request that says "How can I implement a materia system like in FF7?" Then only people who have played FF7 can help me. There might be dozens of other people out there who are perfectly capable of helping me implement the system, but I've excluded them from even trying, because I couldn't be bothered to explain myself and instead expected them to go out of their way and do extra work on my behalf.

If instead, I were to say: "How can I implement a system where the player can attach a special type of item to their weapon, and doing so will grant them a skill that is associated with that item? Btw, I would like for the items to also be removable, and I would like to make it so that each weapon has a specified number of slots that will limit how many of this item can be attached." Then suddenly I've expanded the pool of people that might be able to help me. Then they don't need to have played FF7, and they can still help me.

If I explain my problem in detail, and am cooperative when people who are interested in helping me ask for clarification, then I'm helping myself by increasing the chances of getting my problem solved accurately. Conversely, if I act stubborn and take some weird condescending stance about it, then I'm only hurting myself... For whatever reason, you don't seem to grasp this, but the person who stands to gain the most from a help request being adequately resolved is the person who is asking for help--not the people who are trying to help.

Someone will claim to know 20 different ways of doing something. But they'll refuse to take a guess, and post 1. But they won't walk away either.
They are afraid to be wrong. They want the satisfaction of being right.
I think that a more reasonable assumption is that people don't want to waste their time taking guesses. Why would I want to spend time writing somebody a plugin, or a big explanation about something, when it's not actually what they need? It's actually not that fun to write somebody a plugin because they say they want to add X feature to their main menu, and then to find out afterwards that they're using VisuStella Main Menu Core and that all your work was for nothing. Simply knowing what plugins a person is currently using can completely change the optimal approach to solving a problem. Since people often don't supply that information in their initial post, it can be prudent to ask them before you bother offering any solutions.
 
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coyotecraft

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Did it ever occur to you that maybe it actually matters and without enough info they can't advise someone efficiently?
Yes. I already said "if you can't; you can't". Nobody is obligated to follow your personal rules of engagement. Your effectiveness, performance, success rate...whatever, it's nobody's concern but your own. If you have some form of mental rigidity that is preventing you from engaging further; just leave. It is unfair to demand others to stand up because you refuse to stoop to their level.

Nobody is talking about harrassment but you.
Yes. Because it's was my point. Your "confusion" might seem like a problem to you. But making your problem my problem is exactly what this topic is about.
it sounds like you're having a different conversation about forum ettiquete based on your own negative experiences, while all I want is to get the information necessary to help people realise their vision.
I'm not the one who created this topic. I don't post support questions. They're not my experiences. But I know exactly what this is about. It's literally not you. But pretending it is you,
consider that your willingness to help and your ability to help are 2 different things.
The continuous interrogation is just going to demonstrate your inability to comprehend. People are not all social butterflies. You can exhaust their patience. You can frustrate them to the point that their topic gets lock - making your involvement a hinderance and curse.

On resource request, someone might request something vague like "a cup". My time is limited. I will just draw the first "cup" that comes to mind. Because I here now. I'm not dedicating my whole weekend to this. I'll assume the details aren't important. I might even draw something like a men's protective sports cup, knowing that's probably not what they want. But! Someone else might see it and have a use for it. The topic isn't just for the original post. It's not for me to promote myself.

Your stance here just sounds like entitlement.

It is entitlement. But who's? You're commission analogy is a little out of context. Since usually people come to you, but in this case you approach them. It's backwards.

So this rule we're talking about, who is it serving? Who is it oppressing?
It's a matter of adversity when it's stubborn people who can't take "no" for an answer.
Everyone is like "What if I know better?" As if it mattered.

That sentence is an insult to everyone who even tries to help.
That's a lot to unpack. Because of course they're volunteers. Meaning there was no obligation. Meaning they have no right to demand gratitude or assign themselves a value nobody validated. Especially in this context where they couldn't have possibly helped, because the poster could not suffer their probing. Maybe this is a cultural difference. I say you shouldn't feel insulted, you should feel ashamed. What a gift that would be to declarer a title for yourself and expect everyone to step aside so you can claim your throne. Like there's some indignity of being an entertainer and not being allowed to entertain. In that scope of that statement, it is a pretentious designation "of being" without "doing" .

"who hurt you?"
No one hurt me. I just think people need to be honest about their social reality.
They are framing the questioner as "biting the hand that feeds them".
But it's more like "casting pearls before swine; lest they rend you asunder". If you charge yourself with the responsibility of feeding livestock, yes, you should know that pigs do not eat pearls but do eat human flesh. It shouldn't be a surprise if you lose a hand in the process of figuring out what they eat. Reading all the opinions above, all I imagine are people who want to elevate their importance. Or some unspoken agenda from this deal. God forbid someone waste "their" time they were-but-weren't offering.
All I know is that if they lost a hand, they didn't sacrifice it.
 

Bex

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Are we still in reality or in make beliefe land?

Entitled Helpers who want to sit on a Throne? And as a common thingy in this Community?
Or are you talking about rpg maker help forums in general?

You said you dont ask Help Questions.
And you dont realy care if your help was helpful to the one asking. judging by the Pot Item example.
Is that correct?

I can so far agree with you, that we should know that Trolls can be Questioners but also Answerers
in a Forum Topic. So as soon one Side is put down, the troll will use second account and start trolling from the oposite. End Goal: own satisfaction. worst case more things added to it like: damage or disruption of community or trying to paint people as incompetend specialy if some kinds of emotions can get steamed up.
But if some bad manners would take realy overhand, than this would be the Topic to talk about it.
Or like others said use the Report function and call the moderation to check it if its repeaditly and too much.
 

ScorchedGround

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I have no idea how we can even have a discussion like this.

Usually, when you post something in the support forum, you are the one attempting to reach out to other people. So it would be a person in need of assistance reaching out to people that can potentially help.

You cannot demand for a third-party to do research on YOUR behalf to help you with your problem.

Because the question then is, why are you posting a thread in the support forum instead of doing your OWN research? And if you did, I hope you provided that in your support question.



So it is your responsibility to contribute as much information and context as possible.

The relation here being roughly as follows:
The more information you offer up, the more efficient and fast people can understand and find a solution to your problem. If you give out enough information, you might even get alternative solutions that work far better than what you previously intended to do.

On the flipside, if you only give out minimal information and no context whatsoever, people will either
1) Completely ignore you and decline helping
2) Ask questions about your inquiry, seems logical right!?

Now, in my mind there are two main types of questions being asked:
- Questions to elaborate
-> "Is this supposed to happen on the map or in-battle?"
-> "Are you talking about random battles or evented battles?"

- Questions concerning practicality
-> "Why are you using switches for this? Variables are more efficient in this case."
-> "Common events are probably better suited for this."
-> "Why wouldn't you just use a self-switch here?"

Both of these types of questions are not asked out of malice or to belittle the skills of the person asking the question.

People are merely gathering information to find the most appropriate approach to tackle the problem. They would rather have a discussion about details before they attempt to help and not after the fact only to be told "Uhh thanks but that's not what I wanted".



Last note: If you're really not interested in giving out more information or people *probing* you, just SAY so. I think it would gravely hurt your chances to receive help, but I believe most people here would oblige if you put out a disclaimer like "please don't ask any questions I like to keep things vague" in your post.

Otherwise, if you feel someone is genuinely trying to spite you, just report that as harrassment.

I really don't understand how this could become a fiery discussion.
 
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Philosophus Vagus

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You know that a block function exists right? So if someone is really harassing your thread with questions about how they might solve your problem, and you are hypothetically feeling harassed by this because you believe, for whatever reason, that those questions are malicious and intended to waste both your time and theirs, and that by responding they are just going to keep responding and it's just going to get heated to the point where a moderator locks the thread and you can't get any more help then you can simply not respond to them right? The same way you are saying that they shouldn't be responding if they don't have a solution ready for you? Just ignore the people 'harassing' you in that way, you don't even have to block them, they aren't going to keep bumping your thread unprovoked if you don't keep responding to them (and if you have an example that proves that statement wrong, please link it and actually prove me wrong, because otherwise I call bullshit, that doesn't happen and anyone whose ever lurked in the support forums either as a potential helper or a requester of help knows that doesn't happen) so if you think they are being unhelpful just don't engage.

There is no need to censor people over such petty disagreements that 9 times out of 10 are going to be over differences in perception between different people and not an actual, intentional slight in the first place. And your quip about how moderators are biased on how they enforce these rules is the perfect justification for why further censorship is a bad idea here, because everyone is biased and no one is completely impartial and the best you can realistically do to balance that is to try to keep any censorship geared towards what is commonly agreed upon with at least a general consensus, that is the basics of not allowing illegal activity or obvious spam or off topic discussions to derail the conversation. It is becoming increasingly difficult to have frank discussions on the internet about anything because we are moving beyond that commonality into the more ideological, which will inevitably result in more biased moderation (not a knock to any moderator here or anywhere, I am strictly speaking to human nature itself, not to any specific actual person) because people are biased by their experiences and if you encourage them to censor others in a way that either conforms to or rubs up against that bias, that bias is going to influence their actions accordingly.

The easiest answer to this is we need to return to understanding that the solution to offensive (or unhelpful, or whatever you want to call it) speech isn't to shut up the speaker, it is to exercise your freedom of association and choose not to associate with them. Block them if you must, or simply don't engage with them. In the event that they actually do continue to harass you at that point, well then all of a sudden it becomes actionable, and you can prove it is in fact harassment simply by showing your thread where said person is flaming you or spamming you with unprovoked bumps, and actually prove your point rather than continuing to speak in what to most people come off as far-fetched hypotheticals.
 
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