A Small Rant against Skyrim

Redeye

Chronicles Creator
Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2013
Messages
430
Reaction score
240
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
I'm sorry, but ranting about the game just because some quests and questlines aren't inherently heroic is seriously dumb.

If you want to roleplay as a hero, do the heroic quests. Fight the bad guys, protect the weak, and so on. Some quests and questlines are literally designed specifically for morally grey or diabolical characters. If you don't want to be morally grey, don't do the quest. From what it sounds like, you're a completionist who wants to do as much as possible on a single character, but then you complain when some of the quests don't suit your character's heroic persona? Come on.

The general consensus is that people who try to do everything in Skyrim in a single playthrough probably shouldn't worry about roleplaying, simply because trying to justify your actions would just lead to a character full of contradictions.

But anyways, the game is indeed really buggy, but that's mainly why I always have the Unofficial Patch mod installed. I don't necessarily care that Bethesda "should've done it themselves" because this game is nearly 9 years old and they've moved on to other games long ago. The Creation Club is being worked on by a handful of people, but I'm pretty sure they've stopped updating it a while ago, either due to COVID or lack of interest.
 

Frostorm

[]D[][]V[][]D aka "Staf00"
Veteran
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
1,116
Reaction score
810
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
I don't agree with this whole "if it needs mods to be good then the dev failed as a designer". I think of mods for games just like mods for cars. The modability of a gane or car is a FEATURE in of itself. I bought a Subaru BRZ not because of its pathetic 200hp, but because of its extensive aftermarket support, lego-like design, and well-engineered chassis. Slap on FI (forced induction) on a BRZ w/ some grippy wheels/tires and you basically have a Porshe killer, at half the price. Skyrim is basically a BRZ in this sense. It's not superb out of the box, but you can do so much with it, the possibilities are practically limitless. That's its selling point.
 

gstv87

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
2,189
Reaction score
1,167
First Language
Spanish
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
I guess the mistake of Skyrim was putting a face to the protagonist.
Morrowind was about the land. Oblivion was about the king.
by making Skyrim about the player, they took most of the player's freedom away.
 

TheoAllen

Self-proclaimed jack of all trades
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
5,473
Reaction score
6,304
First Language
Indonesian
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
I don't agree with this whole "if it needs mods to be good then the dev failed as a designer". I think of mods for games just like mods for cars. The modability of a gane or car is a FEATURE in of itself. I bought a Subaru BRZ not because of its pathetic 200hp, but because of its extensive aftermarket support, lego-like design, and well-engineered chassis. Slap on FI (forced induction) on a BRZ w/ some grippy wheels/tires and you basically have a Porshe killer, at half the price. Skyrim is basically a BRZ in this sense. It's not superb out of the box, but you can do so much with it, the possibilities are practically limitless. That's its selling point.
The problem with mods is that people were not expecting that they need to mod the game to enjoy the game. The game was not advertised that you need to mod the game. People play the game and had no single clue on what does the game looks like and feels like so they play vanilla.

Turned out the game suck and you need to mod it to make it enjoyable. Now in the process of modding, you have to research it yourself, which is conflicting and which is compatible, pretty much like you do with RPG Maker plugins. Is it fun?

That's the barrier to modding the game.
Many people failed and choose to abandon the game and said the game sucks. They're entitled to their opinion. However, once they pass this barrier and having fun to try the mods left and right, and don't mind restarting all over again just to see how the mod works, it's going to be fun to them.

--------------
As for the bugfix that is made by the community, I'm really neutral about this.
It is better to get the bug fixed by the community rather than the game is closed and you can not mod it. I personally don't care who fixes the bug, let it be the community or the dev, as long as the bug is fixed, that is all the matter. I can play, it's a win-win solution.

The only problem is if the game never gets fixed because the game is not moddable and the dev just leaves the scene and working on the next game or simply abandon the scene altogether.

--------------
TLDR
People are mad because they were not expecting to do any extra work to make the game works.
 

gstv87

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
2,189
Reaction score
1,167
First Language
Spanish
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
People are mad because they were not expecting to do any extra work to make the game works.
.... which is usually what people expect, when paying for a product that is marketed as being finished.
*finished* usually means *no further work over it required*.
Skyrim did require further work over it.
.....I'm sure you see the problem.
 

magnaangemon01

Miles Montgomery
Veteran
Joined
Jun 7, 2014
Messages
447
Reaction score
237
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
I could never really get into Skyrim. I understand why people love it, but I'll play it for a couple hours, get bored with it, and then not touch it for a year or two. I think it's the fact that there's just too much to do that's kind of daunting. I like a game with a linear story, with some sidequests and collectibles, and that's about it.
 

Finnuval

World (his)story builder and barrel of ideas
Veteran
Joined
Aug 1, 2018
Messages
1,868
Reaction score
6,168
First Language
Dutch
Primarily Uses
RMMV
I'm Just gonna agree with @bgillisp and @gstv87 here in the fact that a game advertised as finished should be Just that - finished and hopefully enjoyable.


I think of mods for games just like mods for cars.
I can see your point here however you would expect that car to run and not actually need basic stuff like an engine and wheels xD
You might want better ones or more shiney ones and in that regard I agree with the analogy, but it should atleast run, right? :p
 

The Stranger

The Faceless Friend
Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,176
Reaction score
20,528
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
The problem with mods is that people were not expecting that they need to mod the game to enjoy the game.
LOL What? There are plenty of people who enjoyed the game without mods. You're of the opinion it sucks, but that doesn't make it true. You might need mods to play and enjoy the game, but others don't.
 

HumanNinjaToo

The Cheerful Pessimist
Veteran
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Messages
1,140
Reaction score
525
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Skyrim has been out now for what, like over 10 years? when it came out it was definitely not perfect, but it was arguably one of the best rpg's for the time. It's fairly easy to go back to the rpg's that came out over a decade ago and pick them apart or compare them to what is currently on the market. I feel like Skyrim was a great game, definitely not perfect, but it really allowed for a unique experience that you didn't get in very many games back then. There are a lot of mods that add a lot to the game, but I don't think you need any of them to enjoy vanilla Skyrim. I sunk hundreds of hours into that game before adding any mods. I think my positive memories outweigh my nitpicks for Skyrim. I will always consider it to be one of my favorites and I still play it from time to time today while I wait for Elder Scrolls 6...
 

Ragpuppy87

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2019
Messages
282
Reaction score
223
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
To be clear I just want to specify that this was my personal experience with the game.
It left me with very mixed feelings.

I won't deny that there are straight up some amazing things in Skyrim.

The design of some of the dwarven ruins, the first time I saw my character hop on a dragon and land the killing blow.

And again, the reason these problems frustrate me so much is that the game is so close to being among the best games I have ever played.

If I truly thought Skyrim was simply a horrible game, I wouldn't care as much strange as it sounds.

@Redeye Again, I don't mind that there are quests that make your character seem less than heroic.
If I wanted to play a character who is evil, these quests are great. It's that there is no alternative if you want to play a hero, other than "just don't do it". Or if there is an alternative it is so onesided it hardly matters.
And there are a lot of quests in Skyrim like that.
Either morally grey or just straight up evil. Equal time given for more heroic quests would also be nice.

And is it a somewhat silly thing to complain about? Absolutely.
Everything I said in the initial post were small annoyances.

Except they all add up. And in the end it really took a chunk of the fun with it during my playthrough .
To the point where I honestly don't know what I think of Skyrim.

If anyone else enjoys it, with or without mods, then go ahead and enjoy it. It just left me with very mixed feelings.
 

Windows i7

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
398
Reaction score
1,225
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
You ever drop equipment on the ground in front of a bandit? I did once, and the bandit started talking to me. I told them they could take the stuff, and then I killed them as they were walking over to take it. Not sure if that was a feature or a bug (or perhaps both?) In any case, some of the bugs can be amusing.
 

JGreene

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Oct 24, 2015
Messages
378
Reaction score
295
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
The best thing imo about Skyrim was the ability to create your own content and make the game into something you could enjoy even more. Yes there were/are a plethora of bugs/glitches. Skyrim was released without 100% proofreading per se. The creation kit, mesh tools, etc, extended the longevity of the game by several years whereas most RPGs become stagnant or are replaced in 1-2 years. Elder Scrolls Online didn't replace it. The sixth installment probably won't, but it should be better with updated software and stuff.

Anyway, Skyrim is kind of stuck in between it being for both RPG/series fans and content creators alike. You either enjoy the base game/expansions (which were great), or you make it something of your own and still find joy in it. It's hard to see anything wrong with a single player game that lets you use your imagination. We're all using our creative minds here for the same purpose more or less.
 

TheoAllen

Self-proclaimed jack of all trades
Veteran
Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
5,473
Reaction score
6,304
First Language
Indonesian
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
LOL What? There are plenty of people who enjoyed the game without mods. You're of the opinion it sucks, but that doesn't make it true. You might need mods to play and enjoy the game, but others don't.
There are people who enjoy the game without mods. I'm covering who don't. And why it sucks for those who don't find it enjoyable.
 

The Stranger

The Faceless Friend
Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2012
Messages
3,176
Reaction score
20,528
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
@TheoAllen Fair enough. It just seemed like you were trying to say the game was outright bad and unplayable without mods.
 

Touchfuzzy

Rantagonist
Staff member
Lead Eagle
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Messages
7,161
Reaction score
8,535
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMMV
Personally, I think that Skyrim is a good game. I'll say that I didn't encounter NEARLY that many bugs when doing my first playthrough vanilla (no mods).

That said, it IS a buggy game, and I did run into a few.

The thing is Skyrim does some things very very well, it is just kind of clunky and buggy. So while yes, I think the game itself is "good" I do think with mods the game elevates into a MUCH MUCH better game. One that I've put like 2k hours of my life into.

Yes a game should be able to stand on its own without mods. And I wouldn't describe Skyrim without mods as a masterpiece, BUT when talking about the enjoyment you get from a game, you can't just ignore they exist.

In all honesty, there are two mods that I think everyone should just install as soon as they install Skyrim on PC: the Unofficial patches to fix a ton of bugs and SKYUI to get a better UI.

(On a side note, I think Fallout 4 without mods is a better game than Skyrim without mods. But Skyrim with Mods is a better game than Fallout 4 with mods. It is an interesting thing.)
 

jonthefox

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
1,379
Reaction score
540
Primarily Uses
I always come back to Skyrim because I love the lore, the atmosphere, the freedom...but then I always get bored because, I'm just not into action-battle systems, and elder scrolls' falls especially flat for me.

My dream game would be Skyrim but with some kind of turn-based, tactical battle system.
 

kirbwarrior

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Nov 13, 2014
Messages
712
Reaction score
383
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
but it was arguably one of the best rpg's for the time.
I actually had to go check because this was such a hot take to me that I couldn't believe it.

And, wow, 2011 was not a nice year for rpgs. Saying Skyrim was the best isn't a compliment to the game.

So, large rant time. I've put so many hours into this game. I want it to be good. I want it to be worth playing. But most importantly, I want the what the game promises; Choice. And I didn't get it. So I'm going to talk about this game without mods.

The quest system is pretty bad. A huge part of quests requires talking to someone and selecting 'start quest' option. A handful of quests start within your vicinity. Very few quests actually happen at you (I can only think of the main quest, but I know there are more). Quest choice is quite literally that simplistic; Do I do the quest? Yes/no

Then the quests themselves are very much "Do thing 1, then 2, then 3. Probably come back." Yeah, every game has quests like that, but a game about choice and how you do things doesn't actually really let you do those things how you want. Similarly, nearly every dungeon is a straight line with tiny branches that happens to end with a handy exit out. You know how I know that? It was a huge breath of fresh air doing the quest where you slowly uncover more and more of the same dungeon. You have to explore it. You don't know exactly what you're looking for or what's going to happen. And that's DLC, or basically an official mod.

And doing quests heroically? You can't do the main quest that way. You have to break into a party and lie to the host. That entire quest requires you to kill people to succeed at information gathering. You literally can't lockpick a door that would help you avoid combat to get out with as little fuss as possible. You also must go through a nearly exact path made for you to get there.

What is diplomacy? Many, many (most?) quests are 'kill someone'. You can't talk a person down, you can't convince a bandit to leave, you can't scare off the giants. Nope, you have to kill to succeed. Far too many enemies are 'kill or be killed'.

How about the various ways of doing combat? Oh, right, there's very little. Combat is far less dynamic than most action rpgs (that I've played). There's no dodge, there's very little reason to think tactically (and where there is, it's hilarious like getting a giant spider stuck in the level geometry). Combat consists of; Choose weapon (including spells), find optimal range to use weapon, move around at that range and use weapon, use your choice of healing. Even difficulty has barely any effect on combat. The one exception I can think of is the final battle in the vampire DLC because the boss actually moves around in an interesting way and the battlefield is changing a lot through it. But you have to kill him! No curing him, throwing him into prison, or any other choice.

What if I don't want to be a hero, or what if I want to burn the world to the ground? Can't, very little environmental damage exists. Some people can't die. The game is literally programmed to not allow killing children. I can just pay off a bounty instead of having to live with the consequences of killing dozens of citizens.

Falling in love? Nah, marriage is easy, just do a quest for someone and wear a necklace, suddenly they're in love. Doesn't matter if they have a personality or not. Oh yeah, personality! Everyone seems either barely one-dimensional and/or terrible. You can literally pay a man 500 gold to marry you (which is either a side effect of simplicity or hilarious in its own right).

Progression? Similarly to Morrowind and Oblivion, I'm still not sure that leveling up and improving actually is a good thing. Not only do enemies get stronger in a way unrelated to how much better you get from leveling but many spells have level caps on who they can affect so keeping levels low can actually be a boon. I will state it is vastly improved from things like Oblivion and FFVIII.

Oh, yeah, you're basically the chosen one no matter what. Yes, be the dragonborn, that one makes sense. You also hear the whispers with the assassins? Well... Oh, you can become the archmage without ever increasing spell levels?

Also, graphics. Yeah, they might be technically 'good', but the game is just so... dirty? Like, it's gritty in a boring way instead of a dark way. Plus, the environment is just kind of there. And travel is pretty long getting around, so you take it all in well before you're done. Aside from the handfuls of beautiful landmarks, it all basically looks the same.

There's probably a lot more I'm forgetting. And there are absolutely worse rpgs than Skyrim that came out after it. But the game wants me to think I have choice and my choices matter. So I'm going to hold it to that simple standard. The number of characters I can make in Skyrim is quite limited because of the limitations on choice it has. If the game wasn't so focused on choices and wasn't so focused on the main character, then it would be other rpgs and I could compare it with them. But instead I feel like I have to compare it to D&D or GURPS and even being about to take out the people element it vastly falls flat.

I will say one hugely positive thing about the game; The Civil War is beautiful. There is no objectively good choice between supporting the empire, supporting the nords, or doing neither and supporting the elves. The battles are humongous, so you have a lot of moving things to worry about with your skill at combat (you, not the mechanical skill in game) suddenly matters a lot. The battles are a slog in a way that makes you feel invincible for winning. There are a handful of questionable choices that you can make that even get affected by other choices you've made in the game. You can switch sides if the side you're on starts to feel less good than you initially thought. There is a tangible change to finishing this quest, from significantly changing NPCs who rule each city to what quests are even available to removing an entire chapter from the main quest. And if you do the main quest first, this is the best quest line to use the shout you get at the end of it.

And that's without mods. With them? Marry anyone, including the girl you spend a huge quest line with (Serana I think?). Play a child! Have unrealistic clothing. Expand on quests. Add in fully fleshed out quests that have a ton of different possible approaches. Add a flying broom. Play an entirely different game or replay Morrowind in a better thought out system. Add breast physics. Change character sexes around. Get rid of the quest arrow on the compass. Add in dynamic combat. Make a third person view less inconvenient. My favorite and tiny mod is adding a clock to loading screens so you can keep track without having to leave the screen to check (which to me is more likely to pull me out of the game). But even with the absurd amount of available mods, the game still isn't, to me, worth the price tag. I'd rather take all the coolness of mods and bring them to game I like already.

Oh, and tiny thing; Load screens on consoles are alone a reason to not play them there. Maybe it's better on newer consoles, but I still remember sitting through 40 second load screens.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Profile Posts

Well... My game plays better at 1920x1080, so I guess that's the new resolution. Still runs at 60FPS. :LZSexcite: Also... I really want a boss to be able to build new maps around the player... Mostly because it's visually spectacular! I'm er... not quite sure yet how I can do that without making MV explode.... But I'll find a way, anything in service to the "sparkles"! :kaopride:
How to change your netbooks screen resolution

Forum statistics

Threads
100,790
Messages
979,553
Members
132,431
Latest member
JustNephi
Top