About one of my projects

[Newquaza 96]

I don't really know how to start a topic...
Basically what i'm trying to say is that i'm undecided:
The general idea for the project i'm talking about is this: Roguelike RPG.
This means that you start with a set of four random characters, that have no skills and no specific class. Their portrait/sprite is randomized and so are their names, starting stats and peculiarities. For example, there could be a character that's resistant to poison and a character that's resistant to fire and so on. Every character is unique.
You can retire a character to call a new one with different characteristics etc.
There are no real classes, and instead characters grow certain stats/learn certain skills through stat-boosting/skill-teaching items that are found randomly in treasure chests or bought at the shops. The number of skills that can be learned though is limited, so one cannot just obtain every possible skill in the game on one character.
I would love to also make the dungeons random to a certain degree, but i don't know if i have the skills to do that myself. I can kind of do the other things though.
The main question here, though, is about the general THEME of the game.
Personally i am undecided between two themes:
-----1) A sort of Tron/Matrix-like virtual world in which the characters are robots/androids (makes sense with all the randomness involved).
The story similar to OFF in certain ways. Pretty basic at the beginning but becoming deeper as the game goes on.
The overworld and the battles with simple graphics while the portraits have normal resolution.
-----2) A very standard RPG kind of theme, but centered on the adventure and the exploration.
The random characters are supposed to be actual people that want to join the player's guild, instead of tailor-made characters made by the player.
No real main story but instead lots of actually relevant, big quests. Kind of like Skyrim in some way.
These are the two main ideas i have in mind. What do you guys think? Do you have ideas that can work with the theme of "Rougelike RPG"? Let me now. This is actually my main project and i really want it to come to fruition, so i'm kind of excited and scared about talking about it with you guys.
...
I don't know how to end starting posts "

 

[TalalAlgreby]

i'd say 1, The robots

because that would make your game Special in a way, that if you have all the sprites ready and the suitable tiles

But Remember, a story is always needed !

Everyone playing a game need a great story, a purpose, and make sure the story is making sense too.

 

[Loke]

Wow, that's a very interesting idea! I have no idea how that would work script-wise, but I can kinda visualize how the graphics would work.

About dungeons: Have you heard of the game SCP containment breach? It's a brilliant example of a randomized dungeon, consisting of several different pre-made rooms that are linked together in a random order. Something like that could probably be done without much trouble, I should think. 

I think the Tron idea is cool, it's something different, and that would go well with the other atypical aspects of the game. I guess the generic RPG thing would work aswell, but meh, we have enough of those, don't we? =P If you wanna go with a common RPG style, be sure to add some unique elements graphic wise, otherwise it might get overlooked since RTP RPGs are a dime a dozen, ya know?

Also, I agree with Talal, a story is vital! There must be some kind of idea behind the whole thing, otherwise it would just be a random mini-game.

 

[Ralpf]

Story isn't as important in a roguelike, mainly because of one of the more important mechanics in roguelikes (which the OP failed to mention the plan for), permadeath. Backstory and setting are important to give the player a sense of purpose, but story telling would actually get in the way of it being an enjoyable game, because the player would be seeing the same stuff over and over again.

A lot of rougelikes are are in a high fantasy setting, so the Tron/Matrix idea would be a welcome change I think.

(Also, bit off topic, but if anyone hasn't played Dungeons of Dredmor it is on the Humble Weekly Bundle for the pay what you want price, I highly recommend it. It's a roguelike that's what brought it to mind.)

 

[Loke]

Backstory and setting are important to give the player a sense of purpose,

Exactly what I mean when I say a story is important. Not storytelling in the form of dialogue, but a solid ground plot that explains what the player's purpose is.

 

[tofuman]

Maybe have a "main" storyline, with added side epics? Like in kingdom of amalur or as mentioned above, skyrim. So it won't be a personal story of a single character, but as a group, like if using the Tron style as an example, it is about the adventures of an online guild/clan that is involved with saving the digital world or something. If you've heard of "Etrian Odessey" series you'll know what I mean.

And instead of random stats with revoke, how about assigning each character certain points they can use in character creation to buy stats and resistances? Adding a weakness can give you points, while stronger boosts like double attack will cost more points.

Just throwing some ideas out there.

 

[Newquaza 96]

Sorry i couldn't respond earlier. I was afk "
Anyway i guess i'm gonna go with the "virtual world" idea then. It really would make it stand out.

@Tatal1001:
Thanks for your opinion .u. You're probably right: I guess not many people tried to experiment something so "different".
For the story, i think i'm gonna go with something along the lines of Etrian Odyssey/Skyrim like tofuman said. A story that's "too relevant" for the game would actually get in the way in the case of a Rougelike, what with the original characters and permadeath...

@Loke:
I do know SCP Containment Breach! I didn't know it was randomized though.
Still, i don't really know precisely how to make random dungeons like that. I can imagine there would be at least a couple of variables to regulate the room limit and the various rooms... And stuff like that. Thanks for pointing that idea out, by the way.

@Ralpf:
About permadeath... I'm not sure how to make it work right now. I mean, revival skills are a must in an RPG a la Dragon Quest...
I was thinking about, like, a virus of sorts: Certain "infected" enemies will have the chance of spreading this "virus", that consumes the victim's HP rapidly. If either the infected party member isn't cured of the virus in time or he/she dies due the HP damage, then it's permadeath. Otherwise, allies that are normally knocked out can be revived. The thing is that i don't know how this "virus" thing would work script-wise (I have some experience but i'm still learning) so i might need someone to help me...
I don't know Dungeons of Dredmor actually... But i'll make sure i'll either play it or at least check it out.

@tofuman:
Like i said, i LOVE both Skyrim and (especially) Etrian Odyssey, so i know exactly what you're talking about. Actually i was going for a story on the lines of those games already, but maybe i'll need a bit of help in that section as well. Starting up with a story that locks you to certain characters or locations is bad, so i like to slowly make the story through the development process.
I would like to actually keep the random stats, since they give some kind of "Nuzlocke-like" uniqueness, but the skill point system is a very good idea. If i remember correctly there was a script that allows you to do that, and i saw something very much like that in Last Dream (This one is actually an RPG Maker game) but i don't have the skills to actually program something like that yet. That aside, it would really work well with the other unique aspects of the game, so thanks for pointing this idea out!

 

[Newquaza 96]

Now that we actually got there i'd like to ask if you would prefer if:
-----1) The characters were all actually randomized, and not tailor-made by the player, thus adding more to their personality and uniqueness, aiming to make the player care more about his or her imperfect party members (Nuzlocke style) and to suit the nature of a Roguelike more.
The downside is that some players might abuse the RNG to get the best characters they can, thus breaking the formula, but it's also true that there aren't many people who are really willing to abuse of the RNG.
-----2) The characters were instead made by the player according to his or her desires [Name (maybe), appearance (maybe), stats/resistances/etc. balance and all that kind of stuff] Makes sense considering the party is gonna be made out of androids, so the character creation segment would be like a "factory" in which the android is created with certain selected characteristics. This gives a more Etrian Odyssey vibe but still doesn't compromise the experience in my opinion, though it risks to make the game become more like a sandbox in certain ways.
The downside of this is that, in the case a character gets permadeath'd, the player can go and create a perfect replica like nothing at all happened, and this, as you know, really breaks the Rougelike formula, since it is to be expected that the player should get a different experience every time.

I've reflected for a while about this now, and i'd lie if i said this project has very solid foundations, so before throwing in the idea and start looking for staff to actually start the developing process, i wanted to ask you guys, since you all were so cool to give me your opinion.

 

[Loke]

Keep the randomization thing in there, it'll definitely make for a more interesting game, and give it a lot more replay value since you never know what you'll get! =) And who really cares if anyone's gonna try and abuse it, cheats will be cheats, and the only one they're ruining the experience for is themselves, so not much harm in that.

About the dungeons, what's their purpose? If you haven't already, It'll help to figure that out before you think up how they're gonna work. Is the game one big dungeon (like uh... SCP for lack of a better example, haha) or several dungeons w/ quests or whatever, or an endless pit of despair that you have to survive for as long as possible? I imagine the mechanics would differ a lot depending on what the nature of the dungeon aspect is. Not that I'm an expert in game mechanics, but I think this is viable advise, haha =P

 

[Newquaza 96]

The game is gonna be structured somewhat like a Disgaea game: With a central map in which there are the shops and other stuff, and then the dungeons, that are sort of like stages in a way.
The plot in a nutshell: In this virtual world, that is divided in zones, there's a spreading virus that makes everything it touches go berserk. Like a zombie apocalypse, but virtual. The player is the leader of a new squad of androids trained to face the epidemic and to find what's causing it. The plot will eventually thicken, but this is the main idea.

 

[Loke]

Sounds pretty awesome so far! So are the dungeons gonna have a limited amount of rooms, which ends in an exit, or does the team have to exterminate a certain amount of "zombies" before they can return to HQ?

 

[Newquaza 96]

They're gonna be a certain number of rooms (the first dungeons only have a few, the more advanced ones have a lot more)
Most of them will end with either a boss fight or a treasure room, and for certain main-plot related dungeons, an event.

 

[Loke]

That's pretty much exactly what I'd imagined it would be, haha. =D Sounds like it could be really good!

I'm wondering about the art, will you have face graphics and such, or just randomized sprites? And will you be drawing them? =)

 

[Newquaza 96]

For the art i was thinking about simple graphics for the tiles, overworld characters and stuff, a la OFF, but normal-res portraits, battlers and other stuff that deserves better quality.
Randomized sprites wouldn't work, so i'll have to ask someone to make the portraits for the characters and the enemies. I can handle making the tiles and the other overworld/dungeon graphics.

 

[Loke]

You're inspired by OFF too? Haha, me too! I love that game, strangely the graphics have real charm to them, in a way. Anyway, if you can draw the sketches for the portraits yourself, I could help you transfer them to digital. I have quite a bit of experience as a lineartist, and I use SAI, so the quality would be good. That is, if you want to draw them yourself, haha. It would definitely be a lot more convenient for you, I know for one that finding artists to work for you here is pretty tough. Just thought I'd offer if you need it =P

If randomized portraits can work, so can randomized sprites I should think. Also, maybe since they're androids, you can just have a selection of different designs (however many you feel like I suppose) and have plenty of recolors of them for extra randomizing effect! Something like that would be easy to do for the artist with the uncompressed file, and it would really add another level of randomness to it, while keeping it a realistic amount of work, I think. =)

 

[Newquaza 96]

Also, maybe since they're androids, you can just have a selection of different designs (however many you feel like I suppose) and have plenty of recolors of them for extra randomizing effect!

THAT is exactly what i have in mind: 2 designs for mature guys, 2 designs for teen guys , 2 designs for young guys, "" for mature girls, "" for teen girls and "" for your girls.

But with every recolor i also think of, like, changing the facial expression. To make them a bit more "personal" and less like "oh goody it's just a recolor". So like for one design the blue recolor is emotionless, the red one is angry, the pink one is grinning, the black one is sad and so on.

 

[Loke]

Ooh, that's a great idea!! Facial expressions are my absolute favorite things to work with, so if you need any help with that too, just ask, haha! xD Also, I'm sure you know, with layers in digital programs, switching out the faces but keeping the body the same is no trouble at all, everyone does it with the "Emo Sets" here =P

 

[Newquaza 96]

It should be no problem at all. If i take care of the designs (and possibly draw two full portraits, one for the males and one for the females) and draw the emotionless expressions i should be fine.
There ARE gonna be recurring characters relevant to the story/game in general that are gonna need portraits as well, but the main problem is with the playable characters, so if we get it out of the way swimmingly the rest should be easy.

For the music, i already found lots of useful themes on Soundimage, so that's taken care of at least...

Another thing that i want to talk about is about the skill system.
Since the skills are not learned by leveling but by finding/buying skill-learners (I'm imagining them to be like Pokémon's TM/HMs discs or just floppy discs) then weapon-restricted abilities should only be a few, while most of the abilities should be like: "Slash of Whatever" can be used by Claws/Sword/Katana/Axe/Dagger(and Spear?) wielders, as in all of those weapon have a blade and they can slash things, while "Slam of Whatever" can be used by Fists/Club/Staff/Rod wielders because all of those weapons can be slammed on the enemy.
I don't think there are gonna be actual "magic" abilities (as in being in a different category) but i'll definitely implement some skills that work like magic does in common RPGs (thus can be used by any weapon).

 

[Loke]

Heya, how's it coming along? Made any progress? =)

 

[Newquaza 96]

I made the template for the sprites of the characters and drawn the full portrait of the male characters. I'm a bit confused on how to edit the tiles in order to make them animated (like, the movement of the water) but for now it's going slow but steady. .u.