Ace: Does lag hinders creativity and potential for great games?

♥SOURCE♥

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I was trying to make a nice city, with lots of people and therefore lots of events (100/200) to convey the feeling of dynamism and to make it look/feel more alive, and I found that the game lags heavily.

 

I realized that RPG Maker Ace's performance is severely limiting the creativity, the potential and the possibility of making even detailed small sized city maps (don't even think about having a "big" city map), forcing us to divide our vision into smaller chunks and spread them over different maps.

 

Do you think event-related lag is limiting your creativity, your vision, and the potential to create awesome games?

 

TL;DR: RPG Maker Ace's event lag is severely limiting you.
 

nio kasgami

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sure this can limiting you this is why script maker do Anti-lags system increase the posibility of events on the maps :3!
 

Bloodmorphed

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Not really. I mean it can limit some people, if their PC isn't powerful enough. But to be honest most gamers now have a powerful enough PC to go bat **** crazy with everything. So it can be limiting, but not really?

However, RPG Maker does lag a bit for some reason on bigger maps.
 

Baddibu

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Hello,

When I did a 100 x 100 map with ~30 events nothing changed but now I've made a 50x50 castle interior (unfinished) with 53 events and I've lost 5 fps (with anti-lag script). I don't know why, I've created a test map 150x150 and placed 79 events and random titles and there i got no lag, someone knows why? None of the events are moving, parallel processing or autorunning.

i5, 8GB, GeForce 630M (2GB)

Best regards,

Baddibu
 
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Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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@Baddibu - it might be that your computer is just slowing down. It happens to me sometimes, games that I can play normally at 60 FPS most of the times suddenly run at 30 FPS.


@Blood - it's still safer to make your game assuming the other end of the comparison.


Anyway, events really do cause considerable lag compared to other things. This is mostly because they are refreshed every refresh even if they don't need to be refreshed, and there are a lot of background things happening on events, even on blank ones. I have no problems separating maps into smaller ones though. Why? Because by default, we can only see 544x416 pixels on the screen anyway. I do actually sometimes prefer just making the default sized maps. Though if ur planning a big game, you might hit the map limit (999 I think)
 

Diretooth

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The more things your computer does at one time, the slower it becomes. Also, the more intensive things there are, the slower your computer is as well. RPG Maker games can be very intensive if you make a lot of events and use a lot of animations for everything.

For myself, if it's not part of the main storyline, and it doesn't add to the backstory or the general background of the game, and it could be removed without being detrimental, then you don't need it.

Same with adverbs.
 

HumanNinjaToo

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I too prefer smaller maps but, I like to use events to help display images so that I don't have to make many parallax maps. So for this reason, I also use an anti lag script. I would say this doesn't limit my creativity much if at all.

Also, I believe there are transition scripts to mask the changing of maps and make it look cleaner, without the fade outs/ins. Sorta like the old NES Zelda game. So with a script like that, I don't think having a bunch of small maps to creat one very large city would be much of a problem. If you want to check that script out, it's in one of the restaff releases.
 

Baddibu

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@Baddibu - it might be that your computer is just slowing down. It happens to me sometimes, games that I can play normally at 60 FPS most of the times suddenly run at 30 FPS.
Just want to let you know that it wasn't my coputer (I did think the same).

The FPS in the smaller areas are normal now after I've deleted XS Core + XS HP, MP, TP Hud.

Because that problem wasn't in bigger areas I got curious what causes it so I cut (and later paste) single scripts to see if it has anything to do with scripts.

Best regards
 

Chaos Avian

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the RGSS Player use just the CPU to run? I heard that your sound, graphics card, etc don't really matter.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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yeah, RGSS uses the CPU even for graphics processing, which is actually why it really gets laggy when you have a lot of updates going on.
 

Matseb2611

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I don't see limitations of the engine as necessarily a bad thing. I see it as a challenge that forces me to think outside the box and come up with more creative ways to make my vision a reality. A lot of the time being limited (whether by money, skill, or anything else) makes you think in ways you wouldn't have otherwise.

If the engine lags on enormous maps with lots of events, then maybe it is better to simply make lots of smaller maps. I think most players would certainly appreciate that more, because overly big maps can be a pain to explore. The lag might also not necessarily be due to size of the map, but by how you've executed the events. Too many parallel process events on one map and you got a lag. And maybe half of those parallel process events can be replaced by something else. ;)
 

♥SOURCE♥

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Not really. I mean it can limit some people, if their PC isn't powerful enough. But to be honest most gamers now have a powerful enough PC to go bat **** crazy with everything. So it can be limiting, but not really?
I know what you mean, but in that case (if your game can only be played optimally in a gamer's pc), you would be reducing your potential audience (or limiting your target audience) to gamers, who of course have a powerful cpu. What about the casual players or any other people that might be interested in your game but don't have a high clock cpu?

Anyway, events really do cause considerable lag compared to other things. This is mostly because they are refreshed every refresh even if they don't need to be refreshed, and there are a lot of background things happening on events, even on blank ones. I have no problems separating maps into smaller ones though. Why? Because by default, we can only see 544x416 pixels on the screen anyway. I do actually sometimes prefer just making the default sized maps. Though if ur planning a big game, you might hit the map limit (999 I think)
So it is limiting you but you don't mind. Creating a mildly coherent city map in small 17x13 pieces/maps is a at best a pain and usually not possible depending on your idea/vision, and also completely prevents you from doing a city overview scene and other things that woud need the city/place to be in one map.

RPG Maker games can be very intensive if you make a lot of events and use a lot of animations for everything.
That depends on what you call "a lot", but yes. Sometimes you just need to use events and animations, like when you want your game to have an action battle system to fight "on the map", and then you're limited to tiny skirmishes instead of more amusing battles/situations. Or the original example of a city, like, not a village, a city, which should be crowded with people doing their stuff and minding their own business.

If the engine lags on enormous maps with lots of events, then maybe it is better to simply make lots of smaller maps. I think most players would certainly appreciate that more, because overly big maps can be a pain to explore. The lag might also not necessarily be due to size of the map, but by how you've executed the events. Too many parallel process events on one map and you got a lag. And maybe half of those parallel process events can be replaced by something else. ;)
Again, it depends on what you think of as "enormous". Map size limit is 500x500, so assuming that as enormous, yes, I agree that that size is a pain to explore. But what about 150x150, 100x100? That is not that big for a city, and populating one with that dimensions takes a good amount of events, and then you face the dilemma of your target audience and the cpu requirements for your game vs your vision/idea. I assume we all want our games to be played by as many people as possible and for it to be as close to our original vision as possible.

I think people usually just adapt their idea to fit the limitations of the tool, thus limiting their original vision. But I believe that it should be the other way around.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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I won't say that it's limiting me, because I really don't like making large maps with lots of events on the first place. So if there's anything that's limiting me, it's not the lag caused by the events but rather my own preferences.

Also, if there's one major difference between the human mind and some kind of tool (or even AI), it is that the human mind is far more capable of adapting. A tool can only adapt and adjust up to a certain extent, while the human mind can go far beyond those limits. No matter which tool you use (based on my experience), ultimately it will always be the tool that will be setting the limits. At first your own capabilities will limit you but once you learn most of what can be done, you will realize that the greater limits lie within the tool itself.

Right now, I'm still on the earlier part which is my capabilities limiting me.
 
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