Achievements notification

[Shaz]

I'm having achievements in my game, which will push through to Steam for the Steam version, but for any version will be able to be viewed in-game as well.


My question is ... as a player, would you want to be notified of achievements as they happen, or would you be content to take a look at the achievements screen when you're ready and see what's in there?


If being notified, would you want a popup that you'd have to dismiss with a keypress or a click? Or just something that appears and fades away without interrupting your play? Should it be in the middle where it's obvious, or off to the side or in a corner where it's not obstructing your view but might not be noticed?


What if there are several achievements in a row - show them all together in a single window/dialog/popup, or one at a time?


What if there's an achievement as part of a cutscene, or just before the cutscene - should notification happen during the cutscene or afterwards?


Any other thoughts?

 

[Hudell]

I don't really like achievements, but I know that is an upopular opinion, so I'd pick the "something that appears and fades away without interrupting your play" option.

 

[missbat]

I would personally say that achievements should appear on the screen as they are reached. It definitely gives the player a feeling of progression or accomplishment. Achievements feel good, and seeing/hearing the little achievement box pop up is very satisfying.

As far as the popup of the achievement, I would say a naturally fading one off the the side/bottom of the screen. That way it in no way interupts the game, through making the player go and 'x' out of the box or have to wait for a fading box to fade from an inconvenient spot. Messing with the natural pace of the game that the players has picked up on/made for themselves is both annoying and can pull them out of the world you're trying to put them in.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Clord]

I like the way Steam handles it, it just shows it for a while.

 

[Tai_MT]

The thing I hate about achievements is that they often tell you the name of the achievement...  But not what you did to obtain it.  I kind of like to know what I was doing that gave me the achievement.  As for where to show it...  Anywhere but the play space.  Bottom of the screen... In a text feed in a corner somewhere...  Just someplace where I can keep playing and glance at the achievement.  It just has to stick around long enough that I know it popped and I got to read what it was.  After that...  Well, it doesn't really matter much.

 

[Lunarea]

If it's possible to toggle achievement notifications on/off, that would probably make most players happy.

It is nice when it's not intrusive - a tiny graphic in the upper right corner, for example. It should be after a cutscene/battle, not during, as that would be too distracting. My 2 cents, anyway.

 

[Mimironi]

Having it fade without interrupting the game is the best option, I think.

 

[Marsigne]

My question is ... as a player, would you want to be notified of achievements as they happen, or would you be content to take a look at the achievements screen when you're ready and see what's in there?

Being notified as they happen, as it's just much better, with the points that missbat covered.

If being notified, would you want a popup that you'd have to dismiss with a keypress or a click? Or just something that appears and fades away without interrupting your play? Should it be in the middle where it's obvious, or off to the side or in a corner where it's not obstructing your view but might not be noticed?

Something that appars and fades away without interrupting my play is better, because as you said, it interrupts the play. Off to the side or in a corner where it's not obstructing my view is better, even if I might not notice it, but really, with the on-screen achievement shown and sound also played, it'd be hard to not notice, unless say, you're really focused and didn't notice, or some other reason, but really it's uncommon and shouldn't beat up it's pro of being comfortable and without interrupting the screen.

What if there are several achievements in a row - show them all together in a single window/dialog/popup, or one at a time?

One at a time is better, it would just cloud up the screen.

What if there's an achievement as part of a cutscene, or just before the cutscene - should notification happen during the cutscene or afterwards?

Afterwards is better because at these cases, the achievement will interrupt the play as you want to focus on what happens on the scene.

Any other thoughts?

All the features that I said above is how the PS3 trophy/achievement system works, like, literally, except that if I don't get wrong, the notification during cutscene is up to the game developer if he wants to make it appear during cutscene or not, as if I don't get wrong again, there are both games that make the achievement appear and not make it appear during cutscenes.

The thing I hate about achievements is that they often tell you the name of the achievement...  But not what you did to obtain it.  I kind of like to know what I was doing that gave me the achievement.  As for where to show it...  Anywhere but the play space.  Bottom of the screen... In a text feed in a corner somewhere...  Just someplace where I can keep playing and glance at the achievement.  It just has to stick around long enough that I know it popped and I got to read what it was.  After that...  Well, it doesn't really matter much.

I agree that sometimes it's not good that the achievement appears but I think just keeping the title only is the best option unless it's toggleable or something, because it'd most of the times not be THAT necessary (so it would cloud up the screen), you know, you could just check your profile/achievement menu/whatever and check in there the description of the achievement

 

[Shaz]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I LOVE the idea of having an option to turn achievements on/off, and am now scolding myself for not even considering it!

The thing I hate about achievements is that they often tell you the name of the achievement...  But not what you did to obtain it.

I am planning to have any kind of in-game notification show an icon and the name of the achievement. Then the scene where you see them all listed will have a description of the achievement. This may not explain how you accomplish it, but it will state what you need to (or did) accomplish.


Here's an example (slightly changed to how I'll be implementing it) ...


I have weapons called Wands (I don't really, but for the sake of the example). Each wand has its own element.


I have 3 party members who are elementals. They can all use wands, but only the one for their own element.


I have 2 party members who can use wands of any element.


I have 4 active battlers. The player can use a turn in battle to swap party members around.


There is an achievement called WAND WIZARD. Its description, as seen on the Achievements screen, is "5 party members used a wand in a single battle".


When you achieve it, the icon and WAND WIZARD will appear on the screen.


It is up to the player to figure out that they have to give certain wands to the 3 elemental party members, and the other 2 can have any remaining wand (if they have enough), and that they have to use the party swap feature during a battle, in order to get this achievement.

 

[Tai_MT]

Yeah, I could just check my profile or whatever for the achievement...  But that's currently a hassle in every iteration of the system.  Oop, hold on, let me load my achievement list and wait about 10 seconds for it to load...  Then let me click the achievement so I know what I did to earn it.  On steam is even worse...  You have to minimize (or sometimes EXIT) the game, load up the steam launcher, scroll to the game, click the "achievements" button to see which ones you've earned and then scroll to wherever it is because "most recent on top" doesn't apply in steam for some insane reason...

Honestly, you could just nix the silly "Achievement Unlocked!" text and just put the name of the achievement on that line and then under that line put what you did to get it, "Killed 4000 glippy goops with vampirism".  Done deal.

 

[Shaz]

If it's two lines or more though, that could be a bit intrusive.


The Steam version will still have the in-game achievements scene, so there'd be no need to look at Steam unless you really wanted to.


I'll think about at least doing an experiment with the description as part of the notification. Could be another player option - No achievement notifications; Achievements with name only; Achievements with name & description.

 

[Marsigne]

Honestly, you could just nix the silly "Achievement Unlocked!" text and just put the name of the achievement on that line and then under that line put what you did to get it, "Killed 4000 glippy goops with vampirism".  Done deal.

If it's short and concise, then I agree.

I'll think about at least doing an experiment with the description as part of the notification. Could be another player option - No achievement notifications; Achievements with name only; Achievements with name & description.

That'd be the best option, the best of both worlds, and options are nice

 

[Tai_MT]

Well... let me put it this way...  If your achievement description is really lengthy...  You probably have a very annoying and convoluted achievement on your hands that is likely going to frustrate players.  In short, if you can't make the description for how your achievement was obtained fairly short, sweet, and to the point...  You've got a bad achievement on your hand that needs either removal or reworking.

EDIT:  As a quick example (since I'm playing the game at this very moment) the Dragon Age Origins achievements could use some of that work.  Many of them contain needless flavor text or pointless descriptions that stretch the explanation along for two lines instead of the few words they'd need.  Sure, they got short ones as well, but some of these are needlessly wordy.  Achievement descriptions like "Defeated the Archdemon and, through a dark ritual with Morrigan, spared your own life" as an achievement description is pretty freakin' lengthy.  You could shorten that to "Got the Dark Ritual Ending".  Even "Keep the initial ogre alive as your thrall throughout the entire module. (Darkspawn Chronicles)" could've been shortened to "First Ogre kept alive as a Thrall until the end of Darkspawn Chronicles".

Short and sweet is all you need.  Leave the flavor text for the achievement name.

 

[Shaz]

No description would be more lengthy than, say, an item description. The same could be said about item descriptions - if it takes so many words to explain what an item does ...

 

[Tai_MT]

My problem with my item descriptions stems from limitations with the maker, ha ha.  As in, it only tells you in shops what equipment has a higher Attack stat and ignores all other stats and even effects.  I end up devoting item description lines just to say WTF the item does without any flavor text.

But, that's more a problem with the Maker and not with "too lengthy descriptions".  I'd much prefer to get rid of all the stats and go back to short item descriptions that give the world more life.

Descriptions for achievements should be equally as short.  You can make the "how the unlock" as lengthy as you want, I don't care about that.  But, once it is unlocked, I'd like it to be short and sweet so I know what I did to unlock it.  Put your flavor text in the "how to unlock" menu.

 

[Shaz]

I don't plan on having the "how to unlock" in there at all. As I said, the achievement description would be "5 party members use wands in a single battle". It's up to them to figure out how to manage that. There'd be little challenge otherwise. I wouldn't consider that description to be too lengthy.

 

[Tai_MT]

I wouldn't consider that too lengthy either.  Tells you what to do if you haven't done it and tells you what you did if you do manage to pull it off.  I used to be hardcore into obtaining achievements so I would browse the lists and requirements before ever playing the game.  I'd then aim for the achievements as I played in an effort to optimize time and energy spent during the playthrough.

Ultimately, I decided that wasn't very fun.  I started just playing games without looking at the achievement lists.  I browse them now after I've already completed the game or just before I finish it to see if I can get anything on my next run or before I finish the first tone.  Because I'm not looking at the achievement lists anymore until nearly the end of the game, it's sometimes a bit annoying to not know exactly what I did to unlock whatever achievement I just got.  It only gets worse when you're unlocking multiple achievements all at once and the names of the achievements don't really tell you what you just did.

 

[RaZzi]

1. Would you want to be notified of achievements as they happen, or would you be content to take a look at the achievements screen when you're ready and see what's in there?

- Notified with a popup that disappears automatically without key-clicks somewhere on the screen where it doesn't block view if the achievement is received in the heat of the moment.

2. What if there are several achievements in a row - show them all together in a single window/dialog/popup, or one at a time?

- One at a time.

3. What if there's an achievement as part of a cutscene, or just before the cutscene - should notification happen during the cutscene or afterwards?

- After the cutscene, you don't want to give any spoilers to the cutscene before it eg. the name of the achievement gives out what is going to happen in the cutscene.

I like achievements, you can try to collect them all or just not care.

 

[EternalShadow]

Something like how the xbox handles it would be good. A short popup, grouping for multiples (you obtained 4 achievements for X total gamerscore). Good sound/jingle to go with it too. Toggleable. Non-intrusive. Animated.

 

[Shaz]

Thanks for your feedback everyone.


Got it working nicely now (no options yet - those will come later). Notifications slide in from the edge of the screen, wait a couple of seconds, then slide off again. Might need to change the background colour/opacity to be slightly more transparent.


Now a question on timing of notifications. I know what makes sense to me, but if I go this way and it turns out not to be popular, it'll be an awful lot of searching and changing to fix things.


If an achievement is based on a decision you make, but there is a period of time between making the decision and seeing its effects (and the achievement refers to the effects), the notification should happen at the time you see the effects, not at the time you make the decision, right?


Two examples:


- you can have a friend come with you on a side quest, or not. If you have him come with you, a couple of hours later you all get caught by guards and locked in a jail. If the achievement is related to keeping your friend out of jail, you would want the notification to appear at the time you're caught by guards and locked up (and he's not with you), NOT at the time you actually decide not to bring him along, right? To show the notification straight away would be spoilerish - if I decide to let him stay behind, I don't want to know then and there that I've just saved him from being captured.


- If an award is related to having the largest party size, or the smallest party size, or having the most/fewest party members at any one time, to me, the notification for this achievement should be at (or very close to) the end of the game, not at the time when you decide whether to allow the last potential party member to come along. Again, if I say yes or no to someone joining, and I get a notification that I've got the largest possible party achievement, that's a heads-up that I'm nearing the end of the game, and that there aren't going to be any more potential party members between now and the end of the game. Both of those would be a bit spoilerish, and disappointing.


Can anyone think of any valid reasons (other than knowing what you did, at the time you did it, that fulfilled that goal) why the notification should happen at the time of the decision, when the decision and the results are separated by time?