Adding somethin between action selection and it's execution

[Nol]

Hello to you reader !


After a discussion with Shaz and by discussion i mean him throwing the rocks of truths at me, (in a nice and caring way though),


i discovered that it is impossible to add a "menu" or shennanigan between the selection of a combat action (in this case and hereafter called spell) and it's execution.


- But why in the nine hells would you want that ! you ask, baffled.


Well myu system is based on the absence of redundance in spells


I.E. : I don't want fireball 1, fireball 2 Etc ...


Each of my 230 spells is unique in terms of effect/damage etc..


And all that relies on a "simple" trick :


My spells can be "empowered"


Before i go further in, let's take a look at a sample spell :


Burn : Cost : 1MP : Deals 1-6 fire damage.


 > Empower : +1-6 damage per additional 1MP spent


 > Empower : +2MP : Adds a lingering damage for 5 rounds.


Special rules about empowerement :


- You can't use more combiened MP than your level on a single spell


- You can mix and match options


Originally I thought about doing it via eventing, but event (as I learnt) are triggered after damage (which would make things look silly)


- Wow, that seems amazing... But aren't you afraid it would be a mess to input without slowing the game too much ?


Well.. you're right, i'm scared of that but (!) my goal isn't to make a game where you mash A to pass a fight, combat will be optional and usually hard but rewarding if planned


- What about the general look of it all ?


Well... My goal is to have as much freedom for the player in tailoring the spell to their needs


For this purpose, i had 3 options :


- Make it simpler, but sadder : Have 5 versions of the spell, gradually stronger, and have the player select the one he wants using


a slider like this : [ < 2 > ]


"2" being the amount of MP the spell woulf cost him.


- Make it fairly complex :





Basically  each notch represents an additionnal MP, and the player can select where on the bonus effects/Raw Power he wants his spell to be.


Exemple : Curently the spell in this raw drawing would have


1Mp in power (one notch on the x axis)


+5Mp in bonus effects (five notches on the y axis)


Total 6MP payed, and the game goes to look for my <Effect : 5> tag and my <damage : 1> tag


(Damage can actually be made easily since it will be linear. Effect... well they would be so varied i would need a case by case basis, hence the note tag)


This is the version i'm leaning towards right now


-Make it crazy complex :


Basically have the possible effects of the selected spell appear on boxes, and have the player select them like you'd order a menu from mc donald, with a "Total cost" in the corner


Said cost checking against the player level to allow or not the spell to be cast.


-But..But Nol... That sounds like a huge amount of work for me, can you convince me that this is the greatest invention since bacon ?


Well reader... It's not, bacon is the second miracle after childbirth, and this system doesn't come close to it (more like 7th ~ ish on the list).


However it is a major part of my project, and is what makes discovering a new magic so amazing, it's always new and unique, and that allows for intense brainstorming about combos


and potential uses in my players minds.


-Is your game serious ?


Well, i've been at it for a month, and it should take me about a year and a half, it's a commercial project i'm doing 100% on my own, aiming to produce


a game of about 20-30h of game play with an insane amount of replayability achieved through varied magics and a large amount of choices and followers.


I have a demo a bit behind schedule (waiting for my musician) but you may absolutly ask to see it to get a feel.


The setting is one i've been working on for the last 10 years now, and in which over 13 players have left their marks. Its... fairly detailed about 16Go of texts


The game play will be hard and sometimes punishing, it won't be a game for everyone, save often.


It's "realistic" as can be in a fantasy world, and people are asses, bastards and killers, whatever you do, something will go bad, and their is no black and white, only your morals and how you stand by them.


I'm thinking of maybe doing an iron made mode with auto save after each choices (but that's for later)


Hope that made you want to give it a shot, and if it's impossible to code, i'm taking any suggestions,


As i said, i'm in it for the long run


I'm available for further questions, critics, threats and love messages either through this post or any vocal system


Bonus link : My first inquiery to Shaz about such a system

 

[continuumg]

I actually tried developing a system for this for my own project, but found it was easier to simply have a some button inputs tied to the skill menu that increased the amount of mana your character would spend without adding any intervening windows.


I had it set up so some skills dealt increased damage with more mana, some gained more repeats, some increased duration, some decreased casting time, etc.


I had also capped the spell level at the player's level, but then multiplied that level by the spell's base cost.


Would something like that interest you?

 

[Nol]

Hmm is the button input only in menus ?


I'm going for versatility, hence my need, or desire, to have it in fight as well


But i'd love to take a look, maybe i can tool around with some of YF's Action sequence to open it up to new options


I thank you for this offer, it doesn't fit perfectly what i was hoping to accomplish in battle, but i'll play with it in my demo to get a feel for it, and either hope and wait for someone to be interested by my request, or just make do with your system (which is already way more than i have).

 

[continuumg]

Well I'll have to rewrite it; It's pretty tied in to my project's other scripts, but it shouldn't take me long.


EDIT - Sorry for the wait, @Nol, life happened


This is the base plugin - Continuum Skill Empower


And these are some useful utilities that you can use with that plugin to increase state durations or the number of an action's repeats.


Continuum Utilities


And yes, it works in battle, too.


It sounds like your ideas about the roles battle would play in your project were fairly similar to my own mine.

 

[Nol]

No worries about the wait,  at all, i was ready to wait for months ^^


I'll try all that tonight or tomorrow and will get back to you


When is your project out ? It does seem similar, if you want to talk about in in MP


Edit : added it in a blank project and in mine (in case of incompatibilities) and.. I don't know what to do with it ^^


I saw the a.sp tag, but how does the user define Sp, is there a code line i have to add somewhere in my skill to allow


for the overcharge window to appear ?


Thanks for your time and happy holiday in the land of living skies

 

[continuumg]

@Nol


If you have a keyboard input plugin, you can define they keys the player will use in the plugin parameters.


The player can then use those keys in the Skill Window or battleskill window to increase or decreas their sp.


The mana cost of the spells will be muiltiplied by the sp.


So in answer to your question, the player determines the SP.


It will be an integer with a minimum value of 1, so you can just multiply your normal damage formula by that if you'd like.


Here is a demo map from my project.


Heroes of Relm


It is a little outdated  at the moment.

 

[Nol]

So you have no visual return on the spell's Sp value ?


And no such plugin sadly, i'm going for a controller oriented game before all.


Thanks, i'll try it


Edit : Tried : Error cant read apply property of undefined

 

[Nol]

Bump !


Seems like continuum has a great basis, would anyone be interested in expanding it by adding for exemple visual feedback for the player ?


Just saying that this thread was still active and hopeful


Merry christmas / hanukkah to y'all !

 

[Nol]

Weekly bump : Still very interested


If it doesnt seem doable, please also tell me ^^

 

[continuumg]

I've finished my other projects now, so I can give the menu bit a shot.


Additionally, I've updated the skill empower and utilities plugins. You can find them here: Continuum Snippets

 

[Nol]

If you need any help, advice, compagny or.. well anything, don't hesitate to call on me !

 

[continuumg]

Unfortunately, the only way I can think to make the skill costs work won't be usable if your battlers can get multiple actions in a turn.


I'm just writing up the help file now.

 

[Nol]

Hmm so no double cast


Can i still use instant actions, or will that fail as well (toggle passives and the like)


And is it global, or if someone isnt casting spell, can they use double actions?

 

[continuumg]

Anything else should hopefully be fine; the problem is with the way the game engine handles mana costs; It doesn't reference the action, which means that when the player empowers a skill, all their costs are effected until a skill is used, and then the cost modifier is removed entirely.


I could probably make a workaround eventually, though.


Here it is, @Nol


Continuum Empower Plus


At the present, it can only cause changes inside the damage formula, but I'm planning on adding more functionality later.

 

[Nol]

Did you add visual feedback on the level of empowerement ?


Anyway, amazing work, thanks, and don't press yourself, i wont release before at least a year, it's tough being a single father to such a large project ^^

 

[continuumg]

Yep; it adds a new window after selecting a skill, as per your original request

 

[Nol]

Pretty damn close to perfect, congrats !


I'll start play testing it ; the reasoning and use of note tags wasn't obvious to a neophyte, but i got the hang of it


Basicaly, i define a name and a cost, and use p.name in the formula to modify the spell


In theory that should even allow me to add anything i want, since it still uses a damage formula, any plugin adding effects to the formula or for exemple modifying states (CF : Hime plugins) would expend the possibilities even further !


After 30min of testing :


- I noted that i could use more Mp than my level, is there a command to prevent that ?


- Is there a way to add a (blinking?) ">" symbol at the far right of the line, to have the power selection more user friendly ? I knew how to do it, but my first tester simply


selected the line and pressed "A"


- I didnt completely understand the <empowerower,1,Effect,-1>. Does the - simply add a "default level is 0" ?


Aside from those points, it expanded my world amazingly, and it's even better than I hoped


Thank you so much

 

[continuumg]

Oops; I forgot the level restriction


I'll take a look at improving the UI


Yes, the '-' makes the default level become 0.


EDIT - Okay, @Nol, I added a plugin parameter so you can set the max mana to the actor's level

 

[Nol]

Amazing, thanks !


It now fits all my basic needs, and I understand if you're getting bored with this, you really enabled a core part of my magic system, and i thank you deeply for it !


EDIT : I'm having trouble setting up formulas, but it might be syntax related, i tried dumbing it down to basics, but still no luck :


if (p.Damage = 1) {1} else if (p.Damage = 2) { 2} else if (p.Damage = 3) {3} Always returns a value of "1"


Any idea why, or is it unrelated to the subject


EDIT 4 : Nailed the "error" !


The formula will always act weirdly if there is a p.Damage = x


if (p.Damage > 4) { 6 ; } else if (p.Damage > 7) { 8 ; } else { 4; } worked flawlessly


if (p.Damage = 7) { 7 ; } else if (p.Damage < 7) { 6 ; } else { 8; } Always gave me 7, no matter the input


So that means the formulas can still be written :


if (p.Damage > 8) { 9 ; }


else if (p.Damage > 6) { 7 ; }


else if (p.Damage > 4) { 5 ; }


else if (p.Damage > 2) { 3 ; }


else { 1; }


Past here are improvement tweaks and suggestions !
 

Spoiler

- The menu reads Damage (1), making it show Damage (+1) would make it even more user frendly


- Adding the p. in yanfly's damage core, and skill core, so as to use them in conjunction with more complicated formulas


- Adding a - option, maybe you can cast a spell with a discount from base cost ? Again, i have nothing on my mind for that now, but it's an additionnal option !


- Adding color and icon choice for the possible upgrades ?