RMMV Advice/Feedback on this idea I've been working on

[MagicPizzaGuy]

If possible I would like any opinion or criticism about this idea I had, it doesn't matter if it's just the way you feel about it.

This game is going to be made just because I had an D&D adventure which me and my friends liked a lot and I thought it could become a good mechanic for a game, if there isn't out one like that already.

There will be generic names because I don't have any in mind and I didn't bother thinking about them while I was working on the mechanics, so only the main characters and few NPC have real names.

Last thing to add is that english is not my main laguage, any mistake please tell me so I can edit.

Story: This was our adventure, it's not hard to make it into the game, it just takes some time.

Spoiler

Backstory: The demon Prince invaded Earth long ago, but the forces of light under the protection of Avandor, their god, battled against him. Heriumorn and his disciples faced the demons and sealed them on the abyss. Earth was free of the prince, but the effects of his coming was still felt by many kingdoms since some demons ran away in the great fight and now terrorize the lands. A group of Avandor's clerics and angels decided to make a organization and help purge these demons. Many years passed and the demons are now known as a myth, no sighting of demons happened in years on the local kingdoms and now some question the legitimacy of that organization, accusing them of only scarcing the kingdoms resources. The organization is now a shadow of their former self.

Main Story: A group of adventurers recently arrived in Brinston, all of them received a piece of land thanks to their backstories, they all want to do something with the land, but none of them have the money for it. They venture to gain money and achieve their own personal goal, but as soon as their journey begins they learn that some cult is trying to bring back the demon prince. They give no importance first time, but after some events they notice they are a real treat. As they start to act against they notice the symbol of the Demon Prince, a hand with six fingers. Just like in his hand there are six main cultists trying to bring him back. As they try to face this threat they notice some of them are already important figures in politics or music, so facing them is no easy task.

Ending: Avandor's organization tracks down the source of the portal being worked on. The heroes gather their allies and go against their enemies and remaining cultists they did not kill. The battle ends only when the Demon Prince is sealed back to the abyss or the heroes are killed.

Pretty straightforward, it's not hard to make ramifications in the story, it just take a lot of work and time, which I kinda want to do, but I will stick with this at first before jumping into a harder ground.

Gameplay: I have already made these mechanics work, I need opinions.

Spoiler

• Day and night. Easily doable. One encounter advances the time in 1 point. Walking some parts of the map also, just like in racing games with checkpoints. After 4 points it becomes night, all the monsters become stronger at night to the point of almost party kill if they run into one encounter. 4 more points and the characters become exhausted and have debuffs, I kinda don't expect for people making even 1 encounter at night, but anyway. The player should rest at night, easily doable also, the day/night cycle resets to 0. Sleeping in dangerous places may result in a night battle. Sleeping at inn gives buffs for the day.
• Countdown. Easily doable. Every passing day (resting) decreases the remaining days you have until the demon king comes. You can extend the time you have by ruining the plans of the cult that is trying to summon him. When he is summoned he will slowly conquer the lands until all the world belongs to him. It's possible to postpone facing him, but this will only make him stronger while also letting some allies die.
• Independence. Kinda frustrating to keep track, but doable. The main characters have strong personalities and will. When facing some decision they will make it clear their opinion on the subject. If the option chosen isn't what he wanted they will lose independence points. When they reach low enough points they will act independently, maybe it will ruin a important conversation, or maybe they will recruit some people for their cause, after doing their own thing they reset the independence bar. If you do what they want they will gain points so they will be happy.

Spoiler

These are the main mechanics of the game outside of the battle, but for the battle there are three more main points.

• Row. Thanks to yanfly I could adjust the rows and it works kinda like darkest dungeon, but unlike the game mentioned you could have all the members in one row, they don't change position when pushed or pulled. Some abilities only work in the first row and some on others. Moving is free, but expends the action, except for some abilities which have some movement.
• Skills. Thanks to yanfly again I could adjust the abilities. Some casters classes can have up to 8 abilities at the same time and some others can only have 4. You can choose which ability you will use everyday after resting.
• Mana. You have few mana points and there is NO way of recharging them unless you rest.

Spoiler

Now just some minor mechanics.

• Dying. This is kinda permanent, reviving someone is expensive and only achieved by really later levels. Gaining a favor of the local cleric is important for reviving down members, but this will not eliminate entirely the fact that it still needs to pay for reviving someone.
• Level. There will be only 20 levels.
• Character specific. Easy to set up, but tiring. After quite some time I made it work a feeling of personal story progression for every character. Some of them will try to achieve fame and glory, some will recruit people for their cause and some will just find magical items while traveling. Most of them most of the time will work torward this when they act independently.
• Brinston. Easy to set up, but tiring. The main city is the place where the players should focus. There they will be able to construct some structures that will help them in their own goals as well as helping against the Demon Prince.

I did this expecting it can be a FUN experience, I think some of these mechanics are very punishing, but they all can add a special flavour to the characters or world, but in the end it must be FUN, if it's not FUN to play it's better to trash it and rethink all over.

Characters: My goal making them was to fill important roles in the fight, like DPS, Support, Disruptor, Tank, but they had already some personalities ready since they are all from our D&D adventure.

Spoiler

The main four:
Baal: The sorcerer. He has a draconic ancestry thanks to his mom and a devil one since his dad is a high rank devil in Hell. He loves to travel and doesn't mind doing it alone, he wants to discover new places and hate to stay in the same place for a long time. He arrived in Brinston because he had a piece of land thanks to his mom, he wishes to have a good home there so he has a place to come back to after traveling and a place to keep his magic items since he loves to hoard them.

Amy Lee: The bard. She is a human noble, she spent most part of her life with her uncle since his dad and mom were busy in the politics. Her uncle tried to teach her to fight, but she believed only through music she would be able to overcome her challenges. She was expelled from home because she made songs satirizing some nobles her father was trying to keep a good impression. Her uncle bought a piece of land in Brinston so she could make her life there until she was forgiven. She wants to have a theatre so she could make great shows and become famous. She also loves the colour black.

Gentaro: The paladin. He is a common human. His father taught him the ways of the paladin, but he was not a good example, since he was afraid of fighting. His father was a devotee of the light and always prayed for Avandor. One day his village was attacked by a orc horde and his father did nothing to protect his family but pray. The village was massacred and Gentaro abandoned Avandor and started to pray for the hunting god. He hates now every race that is not human and wants to make a organization to protect humans, he uses the cross as the organization Symbol.

Theirl: The cleric. He is a common human. He was cast out of his temple of the hunting god for being too weak. He wishes to become stronger and return to this temple. He is a simple man with simple needs. He will use the money he stole from the temple shortly after being expelled to buy a piece of land in Brinston, he wants to build a small temple there. I wish I had a better way of putting it, but most part of the time he serves as comic relief.

Spoiler

Others:
Heriumorn: A Jojoesque character. Loves the sun. Loves Avandor. Loves the light. Loves oil. Loves tan. Hates demons. Avandor Champion.
Avandor: God of light.
Demon Prince: Sealed away in the abyss. He is not the only powerful demon there, but the constant battles between the demon lords makes it hard for him to conquer the abyss.
Six fingers: Cult trying to break the seal that keeps the Demon Prince abyss regions away from Earthrealm.
Hell: Home to devils.
Abyss: Home to demons.
Baalzamon: Baal's father, he gave the name of his son in homage to his own.
Brinston: First city and where the characters will mostly try to improve.

Character roles in battle and classes.

Spoiler

The sorcerer is a DPS class with high damage, he fights on row 2 and 3.

The bard is a Support Disruptor class with low damage, low heals, but great mobility and buffs for allies, he fights on row 2 and 3.

The paladin is a DPS Tank class with high burst damage and low mobility, he can fight only on the first row.

The cleric is a Support Tank class with low damag and high heals and buffs, he can fight in any row.

Warrior is a DPS class with constant damage and high mobility, he can fight decently in any row.

Barbarian is a DPS Tank class with high self heal and buffs, he can fight only in the first row.

Mage is a DPS Disruptor class with high damage, he fights on row 2 and 3.

I have all the other characters prepared, but it's not needed for now since opinions on the project at this point would be great already. I intend to commission some because we really liked our adventure, if it fits with the game it would be great.

These are the main points I want to talk about, thanks for the help.

 

[Gradian]

I have nothing much to add to the plot although one thing im interested in is will the cult's influence affect early towns as your party gradually move through the plot? It'll be a nice touch to come back to the previous town and suddenly you find the mood has shifted(less ppl on the streets due to fear, cult members in the open, soldiers hunting for said cultists), as well as add to the necessity of a lil bit of back tracking for important info gathering or something.

Cant say much about other mechanics other than the few ones that interest me below:
-For the day and night mechanic, how will you plan out the encounters? Are they randomized or are they visible on the battlefield? What about the rate of encounters? I think four is too little, especially if you have a leveling system and depending how you adjust it. You want your party to be strong enough and get good quality equipment from enemy drops, unless you have special enemies that drop experience bombs. Relating to the Countdown mechanic, this could become a disadvantage. Time might run out too fast or your party would be too underleveled to face last boss. Depends how long your set your countdown.
My recommendation: time passing based on number of steps. That way it gives players enough time to get from point A to point B or plan their journey without high risk of getting one-shot by night encounters, and some ppl like grinding(as long as it's balanced enough that ppl wont get bored from excessive grinding). It's like in legend of zelda where time passes when you're in the field but it stops when you're in a town/dungeon. If you want time to pass, you can either go outside or rest with the option of choosing number of hours (e.g organ trails) so players can manage their time efficiently.
-As for the independence mechanic, I find it interesting. it's like the confused effect (or homesickness effect from earthbound) except they're aware if they're upset enough to rebel(refuse to help for a few randomized turns, heals only self, etc). If the player makes the decision, will it show some kind of popup the members' independence gauge going up/down/staying neutral or does it randomize? It might be a hassle and easy to lose track of when going back and forth checking their gauge in the menu. Other than decisions, will other factors effect their gauge? Say like amount of resting time(lack of sleep=poor/reckless decisions), or giving them a specific equipment(giving a cleric a cursed staff and a funny awkward convo follows)?
-I like the mana management mechanic. It gives a sort of challenge and forces the player to do some micromanaging. If you implement the 'rest by no. of hours' mechanic i mentioned above, what if it affects the amount of mana recharged?

For characters, they seem pretty alright although the names for the bard and paladin seem a lil out of place for a fantasy setting (Amy Lee sounds like a name for modern use and Gentaro... a japanese paladin? like a monk/yamabushi? Do they hail from a fantasy equivalent of east asia? im curious how the cultists try to influence other continents).

Their desires gives me a basis for their personality so im just speculating here. Maybe some of it can help add to your characters:
-Baal: Somewhat talkative and a lil selfish due to his draconic side(dragons love hording) and as a traveler, one of a kind souvenirs from far of places are basically treasures and proof of their journey, so he probably wont let go of that one of a kind revive from a secret village. Might trade for something more valuable. Will his skills be based off his goetic counterpart lol
-Amy Lee: A show off/likes attention(as long as its done in a way she likes) and somewhat rebellious. She could make some quality jokes and effective taunting(ala jimmy from south park: stick of truth). Sounds like life of the party.
-Gentaro: A serious and aloof guy but very defensive when it comes to his background and easily taunted. Also stubborn and keeps to himself. Im guessing he butt heads with Baal often? I can see this affecting his cooperation with Baal and other non-human members(only defends the human party members, he halves his buffs on non-humans, etc). I feel like him hating all non-human races is too much, especially if the party turns up in a city filled with many races living with each other, he might have a meltdown. Maybe make him overly cautious due to trauma while directing most of his hate towards the orc race and similar races that does hordes. It'll be really interesting to have him party with a benevolent orc character.
-Theirl: Is he gonna be the party's punching bag with the occasional wise words kind of guy? If he could be a foil to Gentaro's prejudice(prove other races can live together in harmony or humans are just as bad as the beings he hates/not as great as he thinks). I could see him be less like the modest cleric and more like the drunk reckless dumbass who's actually more useful than he looks.
-others: Will there be a scene where fantasy jojo guy kicks demon prince's butt with the help of his stand-i mean party lol. That's all i can think of.

I can't comment much on the roles, i think they're pretty okay.

It's pretty long but I hope my feedback helps enough. I'm still new to D&D so im not familiar with some terms and I only got a bit of knowledge from a few youtube videos and south park: stick of truth lol

 

[MagicPizzaGuy]

Thanks for the feedback

I have nothing much to add to the plot although one thing im interested in is will the cult's influence affect early towns as your party gradually move through the plot? It'll be a nice touch to come back to the previous town and suddenly you find the mood has shifted

Yes they will, I have in mind how they are going to affect the places they are working on, especially as the plot goes on and some of them are defeated. I don't plan to have many cities in the game since the main city, the initial one, is where the player probably will focus on as the characters want to achieve their goals through the piece of land they have there.

-For the day and night mechanic, how will you plan out the encounters? Are they randomized or are they visible on the battlefield? What about the rate of encounters?

They are randomized and depends on the area, it works like pokemon, walking in specific spots have a chance of running into an encounter.

I think four is too little, especially if you have a leveling system and depending how you adjust it. You want your party to be strong enough and get good quality equipment from enemy drops, unless you have special enemies that drop experience bombs. Relating to the Countdown mechanic, this could become a disadvantage. Time might run out too fast or your party would be too underleveled to face last boss. Depends how long your set your countdown.

Yes, you are right about this, as I was testing this I noticed that on early level I wasn't even able to have four encounters because I would run out of resources, but as I would progress it became too few encounter to balance it with the few days I had. I will keep an eye on this as I test more.

My recommendation: time passing based on number of steps. That way it gives players enough time to get from point A to point B or plan their journey without high risk of getting one-shot by night encounters, and some ppl like grinding(as long as it's balanced enough that ppl wont get bored from excessive grinding). It's like in legend of zelda where time passes when you're in the field but it stops when you're in a town/dungeon. If you want time to pass, you can either go outside or rest with the option of choosing number of hours (e.g organ trails) so players can manage their time efficiently.

It's a good recommendation, thank you.

-As for the independence mechanic, if the player makes the decision, will it show some kind of popup the members' independence gauge going up/down/staying neutral or does it randomize? It might be a hassle and easy to lose track of when going back and forth checking their gauge in the menu.

When the player has to choose an option they will state their opinion. After choosing it will show if the independence went up or down. If the character didn't say a thing when the player was about to choose then it means he doesn't care about it. Also I made so the independence would always show in the HUD and Status menu, so it's not a problem.

Other than decisions, will other factors effect their gauge? Say like amount of resting time(lack of sleep=poor/reckless decisions), or giving them a specific equipment(giving a cleric a cursed staff and a funny awkward convo follows)?

I didn't think about this and it's really interesting, I think I will add some events like this

-I like the mana management mechanic. It gives a sort of challenge and forces the player to do some micromanaging. If you implement the 'rest by no. of hours' mechanic i mentioned above, what if it affects the amount of mana recharged?

That's a good point, I will see if I can make this work and tell here if it everything went well

For characters, they seem pretty alright although the names for the bard and paladin seem a lil out of place for a fantasy setting (Amy Lee sounds like a name for modern use and Gentaro... a japanese paladin? like a monk/yamabushi? Do they hail from a fantasy equivalent of east asia? im curious how the cultists try to influence other continents).

Oh that's because the four of them are not from this continent and I didn't plan about such larger scale for the cultists. I will change Gentaro class, I think paladin isn't what his class should be called.

About the characters, I think I will change him from full hating to trauma, it will work better especially for interactions. You nailed it about Theirl and Amy Lee that's exactly how I thought them to be.

It's pretty long but I hope my feedback helps enough. I'm still new to D&D so im not familiar with some terms and I only got a bit of knowledge from a few youtube videos and south park: stick of truth lol

You helped a lot, thank you.

 

[Lemonrice]

Hello there,

I would abstain from feedbacking story and characters for now, as it is based on your campaign but I'd like to give my two cents to the mechanics.

I like it a lot, that you make your day and night circle quite meaningful. Like Gradian I was wondering if it is a good idea to make the cycle based on encounters instead of tics or steps but since the night encounters are harder than the day encounters I think it's actually more player friendly to give them a minimum of easy encounters. The trouble that I see is, that the player might not have had enough encounters to level up before the night appears, when the cycle is based on time or steps. Also, i think a time based cycle might be harder to balance to ensure, that the player gets enough encounters before fighting, than a fixed set of encounters would. The variable should increase with the player progress.

The countdown is nice, the description sounds a little like it's possible to completely avoid the arrival of the demon king, but i don't think that is your intention? Is failing a possibility? I have played a few games where you can end the game with a horrible outcome and it still was enjoyable. Especially since it is based on a pen&paper game maybe failing could be something that is acceptable to your target group.

The independence of the characters is a nice feature, it reflects a lot how real people during pen&paper sessions behave "i did not like that action so I now go off on my own (and probably ruin all of your plans while doing so)" but it also seems like a very complex feature to create. I'd like to know more about what parts of the gameplay are influenced by independent characters and what your approach is on this feature.

The skill system is very intriguing. I'm a big fan of letting the character choose his skillset as freely as possible. What do you expect the player to base his decision on? e.g.: "I am in an area with water based enemies so today I go with as many lightning spells as possible
Also, when you say the player chooses every day after resting, but I don't have to sleep every day (if I'm willing to accept the debuffs) then at what point does this feature trigger? Does it just unlock once a day and night cycle went through, or does it only become available while resting? If so, could I rest early to change skills?

Mana is typical p&p mechanic so I'm fine with it the way it is. I'd have this mechanic tested early on to see if people are annoyed by not having mana potions.

Okay, so the following block is kinda just a train of thought that you can completely ignore if you think it is too punishing for players - but I am really a big fan of permanent death and people leaving the group. I think it ties the player more to his favorite characters. Once you have witnessed one of them die you start to think "oh no... that could easily happen to that one as well, I don't want that to happen..." but I also know, that there are a lot of people who completely despise this. So, would it be completely unthinkable for you to have characters die permanently (actually I think D&D has a resurrect spell or something but it's super expensive, if I remember correctly?) Characters with a super high degree of independence could leave the group for awhile and be picked up later in a totally different place, maybe they had a change of hearts or personality, maybe now they are antagonist... It could add to your idea of the characters following their personal story.... so many options, but of course I'd understand if you stick to your campaign.

Well and finally - Brinston. I'm not quite sure where to place this. Until now I had the image in mind of a regular rpg with a main quest/story to follow. Right now, I'm getting more of a Diabolo vibe, where you stay in Tristram and travel to different locations from there. Also, there is a housing option or is it just auto building to have some sort of visual progress?

So, I probably had more questions than input, sorry bout that but maybe it helps further fleshing out the idea. I have not been put off by anything I read and I'm looking forward to see your ideas narrowed down some more.

 

[MagicPizzaGuy]

Thanks for the feedback

I like it a lot, that you make your day and night circle quite meaningful. Like Gradian I was wondering if it is a good idea to make the cycle based on encounters instead of tics or steps but since the night encounters are harder than the day encounters I think it's actually more player friendly to give them a minimum of easy encounters. The trouble that I see is, that the player might not have had enough encounters to level up before the night appears, when the cycle is based on time or steps. Also, i think a time based cycle might be harder to balance to ensure, that the player gets enough encounters before fighting, than a fixed set of encounters would. The variable should increase with the player progress.

Yep, I have already changed to number of steps atm and the results were better, I will keep it like this, but I will test again with a timer

The countdown is nice, the description sounds a little like it's possible to completely avoid the arrival of the demon king, but i don't think that is your intention? Is failing a possibility? I have played a few games where you can end the game with a horrible outcome and it still was enjoyable. Especially since it is based on a pen&paper game maybe failing could be something that is acceptable to your target group.

It is possible to fail, at least that's how I wanted it to be, but at the moment I'm focusing on making only that the player tries to stop the villain from coming

The independence of the characters is a nice feature, it reflects a lot how real people during pen&paper sessions behave "i did not like that action so I now go off on my own (and probably ruin all of your plans while doing so)" but it also seems like a very complex feature to create. I'd like to know more about what parts of the gameplay are influenced by independent characters and what your approach is on this feature.

To keep it simple, since I'm on really early stages, I made them just leave the party for one day and return in the next one. A variable counts the amount of time this happened and progress in their own backstory, Gentaro recruits people for his cause, Baal searches for loot, Amy Lee does shows to increase her fame and Theirl drinks and fight, as I was working on this I made two events, one for Baal, where he finds a secret dungeon and other for Gentaro where he goes hunting some orcs.

The skill system is very intriguing. I'm a big fan of letting the character choose his skillset as freely as possible. What do you expect the player to base his decision on? e.g.: "I am in an area with water based enemies so today I go with as many lightning spells as possible
Also, when you say the player chooses every day after resting, but I don't have to sleep every day (if I'm willing to accept the debuffs) then at what point does this feature trigger? Does it just unlock once a day and night cycle went through, or does it only become available while resting? If so, could I rest early to change skills?

Some monsters take less damage from certain elements or the monsters have some disruptive damage, so I think the player will choose his skills based on that. At first only after resting, you can rest anytime you want since it's an option in the menu, the only difference from resting in a city or the dungeon is that you receive buffs for sleeping in safe places. And yes, you can rest anytime you want

Okay, so the following block is kinda just a train of thought that you can completely ignore if you think it is too punishing for players - but I am really a big fan of permanent death and people leaving the group. I think it ties the player more to his favorite characters. Once you have witnessed one of them die you start to think "oh no... that could easily happen to that one as well, I don't want that to happen..." but I also know, that there are a lot of people who completely despise this. So, would it be completely unthinkable for you to have characters die permanently (actually I think D&D has a resurrect spell or something but it's super expensive, if I remember correctly?) Characters with a super high degree of independence could leave the group for awhile and be picked up later in a totally different place, maybe they had a change of hearts or personality, maybe now they are antagonist... It could add to your idea of the characters following their personal story.... so many options, but of course I'd understand if you stick to your campaign.

I understand your point and I like it, for me it's a valid point. Reviving, as I first thought, will be super expensive, so for most time it will be impossible for the player to revive his characters. DnD has ways of reviving people, some expensive, others rather cheap, it's a big mess, but it's almost impossible to really die there, I don't like this and I'm changing for my game. I liked this change in personality you mentioned I think this would be really cool, but for now I'm sticking with the basic and once I get it done I will jump into making more features and this will be a priority, I think that having a ex-member of your party helping the cult would be great

Well and finally - Brinston. I'm not quite sure where to place this. Until now I had the image in mind of a regular rpg with a main quest/story to follow. Right now, I'm getting more of a Diabolo vibe, where you stay in Tristram and travel to different locations from there. Also, there is a housing option or is it just auto building to have some sort of visual progress?

It's more of a visual progress at the moment, making it differently would take so much work that I've decided to not change for now, if I get things done I will come back here and make it better

Thank you for your help, It helps a lot to have a second opinion.

 

[lianderson]

Tied to days is definitely the best way to do things for your enemy progression. It forces the player to make the decision to keep going while injured, or crash in for the night.

Also, the independence system would make things interesting. If the party didn't get their sleep for example, I'd assume they'd not only have trouble listening to you, they'd also have penalties to certain stats.