Advice: how to get games DONE and not being a dofus [Part2: Game Development is up!]

Ksi

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Alright, listen up. Aunty Libby has a few things to say.

First and foremost, while blunt, Indrah has the right of it. Wait, wait. Just listen for a moment~

It is true that a lot of people who come into the community for the first time try to do things way beyond their ability. It's a fact that I have seen repeated over and over again for the last 15 or so years. Yes - that's right. This means I have seen a lot of people come and go from the community -  a lot of them newbies who had no idea what they were doing wrong and why they weren't as well-received or instantly loved like they thought they should be.

Now, I'm just going to focus on the main thing I see a lot of new people do when they come in - request a team for game creation.

A lot of the time they realise that if they want a pimping game they are going to need someone to help with the aspects that they cannot do and while it's great that they realise that shortcoming in themselves, they tend to go about gathering a team the wrong way... and that's when it falls apart.

So here's some stuff that may be helpful.

 ​
ON TEAM CREATION WHEN NEW
If you want to take the short-cut route - and let me tell you, it's not much of a shortcut, but hey! it's freer than paying someone to work for you - try making smaller games, helping others out with their projects, doing some of the small community contests and learning what you can. You'll get your name out there and if people know you they'll feel better about helping you.

Of course this can backfire quite a bit if you don't have the better connection that getting to know others over a longer period will give you. And just because you are close friends with others doesn't mean that you'll get a finished product out of all of your work. Some people don't like taking orders and like to be in charge, some may disappear for a time and others may just not care as much as you do about the project you're creating or create problems among the team. Sometime things just go wrong and you're left with a project that you can't finish because you don't know how to do whatever the other person was doing.

This is why it's important to cultivate your own skills.
Your skills are your selling point when it comes to creating a team, and the more skills you have (or more skilled you are in one area), the more likely it is that others will take you seriously enough to consider aiding you.

It's not just mapping, spriting or scripting, either. There's music and sound, the other graphical areas (like battlers, faces, resource management and menu design), story/plot/character development/script-writing and gameplay.

Of these the written areas are the least wanted, whilst the graphical and (in the case of XP and VX) script side of things are the most valued. Mapping and sound tend to fall between, depending on the game, though music can sometimes be just as sought after as graphics. This means that you'll find a lot of people who are willing to write the story for you, but not as many that will do the full soundtrack or create original graphics - especially when they have no reason to believe that you will actually release the game, as they don't know you or your track record.

The graphics and scripting/systems are the tangible things that people can see and are usually the first thing a person looks for when they check out a project. It's what gets people excited for a project and actually look at the story. Sometimes people will overlook this if they know the person who is making the game (for example, I would play anything made by Lysander, Kentona, Strangeluv, Legion, etc... because I know that I've enjoyed their previous games before and don't need to look at the graphics to know I'd probably find any others of theirs enjoyable.) Most of the time, though, if someone wants help they should show them something that will draw that person to the project.

It's not enough to say that the story is wild and the character designs are amazing. You have to show them that they want to be a part of the project. Usually this is done with a well-presented topic, filled with pictures of characters and areas, some sprite work and maps, a concise but well worded explanation of the story and characters, perhaps a few tunes or a small trailer so that people can get a taste of the game and decide whether or not they want to be a part of it. Of course, being known helps, but a lot of people will respond well to someone who seems to know what they are doing and what they need.

You need to sell your idea to the public, make connections, prove that you're dedicated to game making in general and your own game in particular and learn how to do things so that if something does fall through with one of your team, you can pick up the pieces so that the rest of the team doesn't just leave.

Never underestimate the power of asking randomly for help on one or two pieces, either. If all you need is a sprite, then ask in the resource section for it. There's no need to create a whole team just for that. Breaking what you need up into smaller pieces and then sending requests out now and then for those small bits can help you make a good project and get the help you need without struggling through juggling team dynamics.

This doesn't mean you take the site and those who helped you for granted. People are likelier to help with one or two pieces, true, but it's up to them whether they help again. And it's not okay to forget that help. Always credit where it's due, even if it's something as small as a characterset of a chest. If you're known for not giving that credit, people will learn to avoid you.
ON MAPPING
I've said this a few times to new mappers and I'll give you the same advice on how to get your mapping skills to level up a bit, which is one of the easiest skills to cultivate when it comes to RPG Maker games (bar eventing). Having at least one skill outside of making stories up will help you immensely when it comes to selling your game to a team. Here are some ways to get those skills up.

1 - Play games. Look at the maps that are used in those games and pick out the ones that are best and the ones that aren't that great. Think about why some are better than others.

2 - Remake. Take maps that use the same graphics you are and remake them from scratch. This not only gives you an idea of how to make things work in a mapping sense but helps refine your skills.

3 - When in doubt, shrink it. A lot of new mappers make the mistake of using very large maps. It's not necessary. Start off with a 4x4 square. Do you need more room? Make it 6x6. Can you walk in it and go from one side to the other easily enough?

4 - Scale. It's okay to have an outer house be 3 tiles high and 5 tile roof width, but if the inside has 1-tile high walls but is 20 tiles long, you have an issue with your scaling. Personally I try to stick with either 1/2 tile walls outside and 2x scale inside. (So if my roof is 6 wide, I have 12 width inside.)

5 - Consistency. When you choose a scale, make it consistent all through the game. Having one house with wall heights of 1 out and 2 in, then the next with 1 out and 5 in just doesn't look good and breaks immersion. Also keep in mind heights when doing cliffs. If one area of your cliff is 2 tiles high and another part is 3, you have an issue. Cliff heights, even when staggered, should be equal all the way along.

6 - Tile Vomit a.k.a The Three Tile rule. Now, sometimes people will allude to the three tile rule if your map is very bare. Basically it's a guideline that says every third tile should be different - if you have three tiles of plain grass, the fourth should be a flower or something, in other words. Now, while this can help a bit with natural areas, it can lead to creating too much clutter on a map. A 5-tile rule might be a bit better in this case. You don't want to make a map over-cluttered unless there's a reason for it.

7 - White space. This is the negative areas that are blank canvas - that is, plain road tiles or grass, areas with no detail. These are as important as filled in areas and items because white space helps to draw your eye towards important details. If you have an altar that is important to the story, have the area around it bare so that the players' eyes are drawn there or the path leading to it easy to see.

8 - Depth. You can add a lot to a map by creating depth. That is, depressions in the earth, cliffs and hills, stairs to other levels - high or low - and the like. It makes areas feel more real.

9 - Nature vs Man. Maps should be very different when in the wilds of nature than in towns. Town plants are more cultured and usually laid out in deliberate ways - say a line of trees along a road or bushes hedging a garden bed of the same flowers. The wilds are more natural in growth - trees grow anywhere, there aren't many paths (bar small animal tracks and areas that get a lot of traffic from human population - roads), plants grow in clumps and are spread out all over the place, grass is long and random, cliff-faces are jagged (this is where you should apply the three tile rule almost always. Cliffs are not straight lines. They are staggered and have varying lines.) Nature is hectic, man is designed.

10 - Life. Add life with events. In forests birds sing, animals live, insects abound and plants grow. In towns there are pets, birds (pigeons!) and people. Keep in mind what lives in the places you create and add sounds and events accordingly. For example, a farm without animals just doesn't make sense. Add cows and sheep, horses and dogs, mice, cats, birds...

11 - Story. When creating houses give the occupants a story. It doesn't have to be something huge - something like 'A shopkeeper who loves pasta and pies' is more than enough. Give their homes a touch of their character. If someone's parent died not long ago, maybe have their house messy with bottles and papers on the floor. Think about your NPCs, give them mini-lives within your game and create maps that reflect those lives. This way your characters are more alive and it helps not just your mapping, but your writing and attention to detail.

12 - Parallax/eventing. Parallax is the name for creating a picture and overlaying it in the dimensions of your map to either enhance a map details or create an actual map completely. You can use the parallax option in map creation as a base layer, then add pictures or tiles over the top to create a series of layers beyond the typical 2 layers in the engine. It can be a very powerful tool... if you know what you're doing.

If you are going to get into parallaxing I first recommend small steps. Start by making small clusters of details to add to a map and overlay the picture. Get used to that, then add more and more. It takes time to create great maps, you need to keep the grid in mind (unless you're using a pixel based movement script) and the more layers you use the more hectic it can be, but it can create great looking maps.

If you don't want to go the picture route, you can use events as a pseudo third layer instead. Create charactersets of the tiles you want and put them into events where you want them. Keep in mind that in VX and VXA there is an issue with lag when using too many events on one map. Balance what you need vs what you don't.

13 - Practice. The most important step is to practice your mapping. Create little snippet maps. Take the sample maps and try to make them more detailed. Sketch out maps in your mind and try to create them. Use different graphics to make the same map over and over.

14 - Critique. Ask for it and listen to what people say. If 20 people are saying something is wrong, shelve the pride and look at why they're saying so. Perhaps the graphics don't fit the rest of the map? Perhaps there's a height issue? Perhaps they're wrong? At least try to look at it objectively.
And lastly, keep in mind that you might still fail. That's okay. Failure is how we learn the best lessons. Ask any person who has finished a game and you'll see that almost all of them failed to finish at least one or two games for many different reasons. Failure is an option and not one that you have to be afraid or ashamed of.

Just take that failure and learn from it - grow from it and become a better creator.
 

Xortberg

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Oh my god I love this list of mapping tips. I'm currently trying to learn how to not suck at maps, so this is a goldmine.
 

Dark_Metamorphosis

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4 - Scale. It's okay to have an outer house be 3 tiles high and 5 tile roof width, but if the inside has 1-tile high walls but is 20 tiles long, you have an issue with your scaling. Personally I try to stick with either 1/2 tile walls outside and 2x scale inside. (So if my roof is 6 wide, I have 12 width inside.)
- This is something that I have been struggling with! Picking a scale and stick with it seems like a legit way to keep it consistent. I will definetely have use of this.

 

 

5 - Consistency. When you choose a scale, make it consistent all through the game. Having one house with wall heights of 1 out and 2 in, then the next with 1 out and 5 in just doesn't look good and breaks immersion. Also keep in mind heights when doing cliffs. If one area of your cliff is 2 tiles high and another part is 3, you have an issue. Cliff heights, even when staggered, should be equal all the way along.
- About the cliffs being 2 tiles high and another part having 3. I just want to see what you think about some places (dungeons and caves) having the boarder walls being 3 tiles high while 'platforms' and a 'second level' having 2. I have some areas in my game where I use this, and I keep it consistent in the fashion that if there are platforms or other levels that the player can climb up to I use this type of scale. Aside from that I always have my walls and cliffs being 2 tiles high.

Here's an example of what I mean:

The other tips are really nice, and most of them are things Im starting to get familar with.
 

Ksi

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That's fine as long as it's consistent for each of their levels. Layering cliff tiles too -

One thing you might want to look into is shift mapping. Quick rundown - Holding shift when placing an auto-tile will give you the center, unbordered part of that tile. If you hold shift while right-mouse-clicking a tile (or selecting a group of tiles) you will copy those exact tiles as they are. If you place them while holding shift (left-mouse click), you will place them exactly the same.

You can use this technique to make the lava in the above picture look like it's actually flowing behind the tops of the cliffs, giving the map a more realistic feel.
 

Dark_Metamorphosis

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That's fine as long as it's consistent for each of their levels. Layering cliff tiles too -

One thing you might want to look into is shift mapping. Quick rundown - Holding shift when placing an auto-tile will give you the center, unbordered part of that tile. If you hold shift while right-mouse-clicking a tile (or selecting a group of tiles) you will copy those exact tiles as they are. If you place them while holding shift (left-mouse click), you will place them exactly the same.

You can use this technique to make the lava in the above picture look like it's actually flowing behind the tops of the cliffs, giving the map a more realistic feel.
As for each of their levels? Do you mean that each of the remaining floors need to be laid out the same, or just keep it the same way on the map in question? As you can see, the map leads to a basement 'floor' and would it be considered inconsistent if the boarders of that map only was 2 tiles high for example? 

Yes, I do use Shift-mapping (As you can see I have used it for the ground since it should be a grassy boarder if I didn't. I have also used the shift button for the pool of water in the down-left corner of the map, near the stairs to a second level platform.) I'll keep in mind what you said about the lava flowing behind the tops though!

The thing I really wonder is if you can use different scales (on the walls) on different maps, or if it only needs to be consistent on the particular map in question. Here's another example where I use 3 tiles and 6 tiles on the same map (since the cliffs to the left is not part of the elevated area). I'm pretty sure this is scaled correctly but I just need to be sure.

(The 6 tiles high cliff is located at the left part of the map)

Edit: Not sure if I should ask this on here, but since it was brought up in that maping section, I thought I could go ahead and do it.
 
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EFizzle

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I'm really liking the new addition to your "rant" Indrah! WAY more positive, and is a very, very accurate too! Good job!

And Liberty, If you don't mind, can I PLEASE steal your mapping tips? They're so well said that... I honestly can't think of any better!

Oh and Dark, I'll add in some of my insight on your question. Consistency depends on many things. I see in your map that you just posted that you've got some cliffs rising by 3 tiles, and some rising by 2, and it still stays consistent. But what truly matters for out-doors maps are cliff-ranges and cliff heights. You can have one cliff range be only 2 tiels high, while having another that that is 5 tiles high, that's fine. But what really grinds people's gears are when you have a cliff range be 4 tiles high, then, oh wait, it's 3 tiles high now, wait what? When you have cliffs that change from 3 to 4 tiles high in the same row, THAT is what we call inconsistencies in your map. It's the same with indoor maps as well. However, for indoor maps, consistency also means that ALL your indoor map walls are either 2 tiles high, or 1 tile high. Sure, you can have to occasional 3 tile high wall, BUT only if you want to have elevation in your indoor map, OR that you want to show a high ceiling, AND only works if your normal wall height is 2 tiles high. (PLEASE don't have a 3 tile high building when you typically have a 1 tile high wall for ALL your other buildings... that's just wrong).

So I noticed some inconsistencies in your map that you just posted, Sure this is the wrong kind of topic to do this, but hey, others can learn from your mistake as well! :D

So, There are just a few mistakes in your height consistencies on your map, otherwise, it's pretty consistent!


You've only got 3 instances of miss-matched wall heights in your map. Most of the time you're consistent. Even the 6 tile high wall on the right stays consistent with the other 2 walls because they are both 3 tiles high normally. So, good on ya mate!
 

Dark_Metamorphosis

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Oh and Dark, I'll add in some of my insight on your question. Consistency depends on many things. I see in your map that you just posted that you've got some cliffs rising by 3 tiles, and some rising by 2, and it still stays consistent. But what truly matters for out-doors maps are cliff-ranges and cliff heights. You can have one cliff range be only 2 tiels high, while having another that that is 5 tiles high, that's fine. But what really grinds people's gears are when you have a cliff range be 4 tiles high, then, oh wait, it's 3 tiles high now, wait what? When you have cliffs that change from 3 to 4 tiles high in the same row, THAT is what we call inconsistencies in your map. It's the same with indoor maps as well. However, for indoor maps, consistency also means that ALL your indoor map walls are either 2 tiles high, or 1 tile high. Sure, you can have to occasional 3 tile high wall, BUT only if you want to have elevation in your indoor map, OR that you want to show a high ceiling, AND only works if your normal wall height is 2 tiles high. (PLEASE don't have a 3 tile high building when you typically have a 1 tile high wall for ALL your other buildings... that's just wrong).
Yeah, Ksi (Liberty) posted a screenshot about that (where the same row of wall had 2 tiles and then suddenly it had 3) That's something that I dont do, and it looks very odd to the eye in my opinion. However I was unsure if people find it inconsistent to use such high values of different heights like I sometimes do for out-door maps (3 to 6 tiles etc, etc.) or if people would think that using a boarder with 3 tiles and then a second level that's only 2 tiles high would look silly as well.

All of my in-door walls are 2 tiles high, for all of my ordinary towns (If there are 2 floors I use 2x2). I do have a mansion that's 3 or 4 tiles high though (pretty sure It's 3 tiles high) just to illustrate that the rooms have a high ceiling ,since It's a big mansion. However, the outside of the buildings are a bit larger I think (But I thought it would be okay since the first floor is only in use for some of them) I might have to change the height a bit for some of the houses, but that would be pretty easy since I use an overlay and a parallax to display them:

My first town (Dont mind the error with the trees, It's part of the overlay and it doesnt look like that in game).

And the house layout for the interiors:

I'm not sure if using 4 tiles high buildings for both 2 floors and 1 floor houses works.. I might have to make the 1 floor houses in a different scale.

Thanks a lot for finding those inconsistencies mistakes as well (I have no idea what I thought about when making those cliffs 4 tiles high when they are supposed to be 2 xD)
 
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Aiyania

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Awesome post, thx mate
 

Neon Black

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Don’t be impatient.

So about those PMs and their replies…calm your tits. It’s easy (as always) to forget the world does not revolve around you (happens to me all the time, I keep expecting the planets to come pay tribute to my greatness but they never do, the *******s).

When it comes to PMs, the rules are simple: BE POLITE. That’s the golden rule. If you don’t get an answer in a week, you may want to PM them again and POLITELY ask if they received your message.

It’s REALLY EASY to forget to reply to something. Many times you’ll put aside the reply because you don’t feel like it at the moment, and it’ll slip your mind. A polite reminder is not going to annoy people.

If you still get no reply, there are two options: the person doesn’t WANT to reply, or they’re inactive. Either means you can do nothing about it, and getting angry about it is the LAST thing you should do.

Remember: no one owes you nothing. They’re not forced to care or LIKE you.

And sometimes they’re just crazy busy or have nothing specific to say. Best option is to shrug it off and move on.
Just gonna borrow this section here.... >_>
 
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I am not sure about the tone of the opening post, but I really do like the message.

KSI had a nice post as well.

I have a few points that I would like to share as well.

1. There is no shame in asking for help as long as you do it respectfully. (Where can I find a resource like... my game crashes at... why does this happen?)

2. If doing a particular thing seems overly huge, try dividing into smaller parts. (You need a town, but you can start with a shop.)

3. Appreciate your testers. (I had someone test my game and produce a decent long text ranging from bugs to characters, story to setting. I could hug that person.)

4. A finished game is better than an unfinished one, an unfinished game is better than an idea, and an idea on paper is better than an idea in your head.
 

Neverward

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Just got around to reading your second part. It's also hilarious and true. I think that some brutal honesty does everyone some good. Sometimes you need to get a big smack in the face with the 'YOURNOTTHATAWESOME' stick to teach us to be realistic haha. But besides the smack talking, there's genuinely great advice in here and I hope plenty of people read and take it to heart!

Can't wait for part 3!
 

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