Advice you don't agree with?

Tai_MT

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I'd disagree, because different people have different opinions on what "fun" is. What's fun to most people may not necessarily be fun to you.

Fair enough. Though, if you're designing a game for your audience, then you take this into account. If your audience is just you... you create a game fun to you. If your audience is 10 of your closest family and friends as well as yourself... you create a game fun to all of those people.

Very few people on these forums are going to design a game they don't personally find fun, though. Maybe if we were talking about companies under the EA Umbrella or other AAA businesses in the industry... sure.

It's all a matter of picking who your audience is and making the game fun to that audience (something many AAA developers fail to do).

Just create a fun game. Pretty simple and effective advice.

In fact I'd argue that the opposite is true. Unless you're a narcissist or a masochist, a game that you enjoy would most likely be enjoyable to at least a few other players.

Not necessarily. More often than not, the opposite tends to be true.

For it to be true that a game you find fun would automatically be fun to others, you would have to posit that your opinions are part of the "mainstream opinions". That is, what you like is what others already like. You would need to confirm that your tastes aren't niche or unique in some way.

While it is unlikely that anyone's interests are niche or unique... the possibility is not 0.

But, hey, if your intent is to appeal to a niche market, then go for it. Still gotta make your game fun for those in the niche market though.

After all, we can find the same joke funny for different reasons. Just because you enjoy a niche thing, doesn't mean others will enjoy it the same way or for the same reasons, meaning you can botch it pretty horribly if it's executed in a way that doesn't appeal to them and only appeals to you.

Using food as an example, it is possible for a lactose-intolerant person to bake a cake that is objectively delicious, but that they themselves are unable to enjoy.

I dunno man... I know people who are lactose-intolerant and still enjoy objectively delicious cakes... They just deem the consequences of it to be worth it. They can still enjoy the flavor, but they pay for it later. :D

Still, I understand your point. Probably speaks a lot more towards "Accessibility" than anything else, however. Sort of like saying that someone paralyzed from the waist down couldn't enjoy Dance Dance Revolution in the same way and a lot of concessions would need to be made in order for them to do so.

And... hey... we can always make cakes that are lactose-intolerantly friendly. If we really want to.
 

The Stranger

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I dunno man... I know people who are lactose-intolerant and still enjoy objectively delicious cakes... They just deem the consequences of it to be worth it. They can still enjoy the flavor, but they pay for it later.
Throwing your guts up or spending the day on the loo is a fair price to pay for a slice of tasty-tasty chocolate cheesecake.
 
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ericv00

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Agreed. But that doesn't necessarily mean avoiding the RTP like the plague. You could, for instance, edit the RTP. Or use the RTP in addition to custom assets. I just don't agree with the whole "RTP bad" mentality that some people seem to have.
I'm swapping out the character sprites, creating entirely new environmental graphics, and indeed, editing existing environmental graphics. Eventually, once I have gotten far enough on the visuals, I'll start diving into assembling my own sounds and even music. But yeah, RTP is a great tool to work with. There is nothing wrong with using it. I just think it is important to consider how much one wants their game to stand out, if that is important to them, and how much. A little modification goes a long way!
 

Bernkastelwitch

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I do agree you should edit the RTP at least and maybe get your own stuff if you can. One thing I don't agree with is making it the very first thing you do is to replace the RTP. Like I said before, if you do that then if plans change and want to do something else, you have a lot of unused custom assets.

I prefer making the game first over replacing the RTP assets as my first thing. The RTP isn't bad. It may be overused but it isn't bad.
 

ericv00

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Any advice has its own merit on its own, so I wouldn't fully disagree. The only advice I would fully disagree with is unsolicited advice. People are free to preach their wisdom, but don't shove it to my face when I don't want it, especially when they do not know the context and the background.
Without seeing the finished product, and often even when we do, we don't know the full context/background of an idea, a process, or a goal someone has for a project (or anything else in life). Unfortunately we do have to make assumptions constantly in life. And so when we see a potential issue in someone's method, and we want to help, the best we can do is present our suggestions and hope those suggestions are useful. For sure, though, there are people who can't take "no thanks" and leave well-enough alone. When I try to give advice, I try to frame it like:

"If this is your goal, this might be something to consider."
"If your character has this trait, it seems odd to have them do this."
"If you are trying to do this, you might want to check out this tool."

It sort of acknowledges that I don't know everything about the person's endeavor, and presents the advice without making a demand.

When I'm potentially making a mistake, I do want people to step in and offer guidance, whether or not I have directly asked for it. I don't want to inadvertently walk into disaster. Though, I also want them to back off when I say 'Don't worry, I got this'.
 

CraneSoft

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"You can make a great game without good graphics / artwork ".

Now, "good" graphics are subjective depending on the person and I'm not referring to RTP here, but whenever I see a developer not even trying to make his game visually appealing and thinks he can make it up with gameplay and mechanics - I can't help but be disillusioned.
 

The Stranger

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Yeah, I honestly can't play games that use certain styles. It doesn't even matter how good the story or mechanics actually are. If it looks a certain way, I just can't play it. Those retro (usually 16bit) style sidescrolling games, Gameboy style, super rough\blocky pixel style, and a few others I just can't stand. I don't need ultra realistic graphics, but I do like things that are pleasing to the eye to a degree.
 

The Stranger

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Yup, same here but with the early 3D graphics of the 90's - I just can't get through it
Oh, that's another style I hate. Hideous early 3D graphics, and that ps1 style that seems to be huge in indie horror games on Itch; they also lack that wobbly texture effect 3D ps1 games had.
 

TheoAllen

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Unfortunately we do have to make assumptions constantly in life. And so when we see a potential issue in someone's method, and we want to help, the best we can do is present our suggestions and hope those suggestions are useful.
Unless you're responsible for someone's success (like parents and their kids), I personally don't mind them. Until they actually asked for it. Using the popular example in this thread, if someone wondered "why no one plays my game", then I could say "perhaps, try to make the game others want to play?". But using that to someone who is already content with what they do, that's unsolicited advice.

But little tips might work. "You know what, you can make something like this by doing this". And that is fine. Advice (or criticism) dictates where you're going forward, but giving tips is not.
 
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HexMozart88

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Yeah, I honestly can't play games that use certain styles. It doesn't even matter how good the story or mechanics actually are. If it looks a certain way, I just can't play it. Those retro (usually 16bit) style sidescrolling games, Gameboy style, super rough\blocky pixel style, and a few others I just can't stand. I don't need ultra realistic graphics, but I do like things that are pleasing to the eye to a degree.
The blocky pixel style is hit and miss with me. Some games, like VVVVVV, do it well. Others, like this game my dad plays that I like to make fun of called Deadly 30, not so much.

Gameboy art is pretty much just ugly in general, LOL.

I know people who hate all pixel art, but I'm not that extreme. It just has to be tasteful. It's funny, I actually hate most realistic game styles.
 

The Stranger

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@HexMozart88 I love a lot of pixel art and other 2D styles (I genuinely like the look of the RTP and FSM stuff), it's just some I have a problem with. Someone suggested I try a game called Kingdom: Two Crowns, but I just couldn't see beyond the ugly, imo, artstyle. Never even tried it because of that, because I knew I could never put any amount of time into something I found so hideous.
 

TheoAllen

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Speaking of graphics.

I do not play games because of the graphics, but I won't play/continue games because of the graphics. It's a factor that turns me off, not a factor to start the game. I seek the type of games I wanna play then let see if I like/agree with the art direction.

It doesn't need to be "good". It needs to be good enough that I started to forget about it. If I keep bothered by the graphics while playing the game, then there must be something wrong with it.

It is also the factor that I did not go far enough with TES 4: Oblivion after playing Skyrim first. Also, the factor why I couldn't come back to New Vegas after finishing Fallout 4. I actually played New Vegas many years ago and I have no idea why I managed to bear with the graphics.

"Graphics doesn't matter" comes from people who are disappointed with the dev who made an effort into the graphics, but the gameplay wasn't fun. So they make that conclusion. It is best not to take this advice out of context. The better advice is "Don't forget about the gameplay".
 
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Shikamon

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"You can use this script/plugin."
But I need to know how it works via event. Yeah, I know I can use scripts/Plugins but that's not thing I meant. Some advice can make people slow for learning basic rpg maker features, mostly eventing part.
"You can make anything beside RPG."
Yea I can, but for me, that's feel like half baked game. You need proper engine to make other genres. there's pixel maker for example. So I think, RPG maker is better optimized for make RPG games especially JRPG. But I realized, most famous RPG maker games not even RPG lol. I just dont agree to follow their steps.
 

HexMozart88

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@HexMozart88 I love a lot of pixel art and other 2D styles (I genuinely like the look of the RTP and FSM stuff), it's just some I have a problem with. Someone suggested I try a game called Kingdom: Two Crowns, but I just couldn't see beyond the ugly, imo, artstyle. Never even tried it because of that, because I knew I could never put any amount of time into something I found so hideous.
I actually didn't find the art in Kingdom too bad. A little terrifying, perhaps, but not bad.
 

BrandyMoon

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"Have everything planned carefully start to bottom and stick to the script."

This seems like an easy way to be faced with the intimidation of one's own designs and caught in a plan that will never cede or finish. One should have maybe an outline or way forward of course and some level of organization, but not being flexible is a fast way to doom a project.
 

TheoAllen

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If by flexible means to compromise the issue you can't deal with, then yes you should be flexible. But if by flexible means to add features you think you need it, that is also a recipe of a disaster.
 

lianderson

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Outside of a few notable exceptions, was never given much bad advice on how to do things. In the advice department, it's definitely been more good than bad.

But with that said, I have been given a lot of bland mediocre advice. (which in some ways is far worse)
 

Mrs_Allykat

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For me, it is any suggestion that ends in "or your project will fail." Because, in all honesty, even scrapped projects are learning experiences that can be used to improve.

Keep in mind, a lot of advice is given over and over for a reason; think of most advice here as a result of collective experiences.
 

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