All about Pen & Paper rpgs and their relation to video games.

[Frostyfirefly]

@ Chiara: Yes, there is friendly fire, it comes into play a lot when considering when and where to toss Fireball and such spells.

Most spells are instantaneous, only a handful per level require significant casting time.

 

[Kaelan]

@ Chiara: Yep, friendly fire is always a problem. So if you're in a party and your melee charges in, you can't just drop meteors on everyone and call it a day, unless you want to solo the rest of the campaign.

I usually play bards, they're by far my favorite D&D class. There's so many fun bard builds you can make and so many different ways of playing them. If I play a normal caster, I'll usually either play a dual-caster or a gish Sorcerer.

For Wizards/Clerics, you get more spell slots as you level, yeah. At highest levels you'll have about 4 slots for each level of spell you can cast. So usually you can't cast anything more than 4 times and even that would be giving up every other spell of that level.

People have tried a variety of alternate casting systems as well. Right now, I'm trying to work with one that uses something closer to the Psionics system for magic, which uses "Spell Points" instead of slots or uses per day. It more or less turns it into a traditional RPG MP system, with a few twists: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19444168/VancianToPsionicsBeta111.pdf

 

[Frostyfirefly]

Just uploaded my video review for the 13th Age, it's a very original take on Dungeons and Dragons, check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDph6qs3PmA

 

[monkeynohito]

Backers got a rough quickplay preview of Ryuutama a couple weeks ago and I've just now got a chance to look at it. There's some cool ideas in here:

Ryuujin - An automatic Mary Sue NPC seemed really awkward and heavy-handed at first, but the more I read, they seem more natural. I can see it working out well for players to just accept that kind of character behind the scenes and it's helpful to have a little definition for their role and powers.

Classes - Always wanted that game where you'd play a merchant or farmer, but you could never balance them against all the obligatory knights and mages. These guys are what this game is all about though; the heavies aren't options here.

Checks - The rules are based around a really cool modular roll. stats are defined by die type and when a check is called for, you combine two dice against a target number. You can say forcing a door requires strength as a base and then maybe the smart guy tries to study the door for the best leverage point, so you'd roll the strength and intelligence dice together. Of course, a bruiser in the same situation could double up his strength dice for the roll if he just wants to power through it. Attack rolls vary like that based on type too, like ax hit would be str + str, but dagger is dex + int.

Item qualities - Items and even services and stuff have easy modifiers that can be applied to add effects, good or bad, so if you spring for the expensive dinner, you get a buff, or a 1st level farmer can afford to buy a smelly, used set of armor that has some penalties. I like how magic loot can just be an extension of this.

Battle map - There's two sides, you can choose whether you're on the front line or back. This is a nice change from half hour minimum puttering around a battlemat.

 

[Frostyfirefly]

@monkeynohito: Those things sound pretty original, if it works in practice as well as it sounds in theory, the game is going to be awesome for those that want to play something a bit different from the norm. 

By the way, maybe you already know this, but there is a 50% discount at drivethrurpg.com on select rpgs; I'm thinking about getting Numenera just to try it out, but I'm still unsure, a lot of gamers have told me they almost completely took out the "g" out of rpg.

 

[monkeynohito]

Yeah, the main draw of Ryuutama, for me, is a more equal focus on things outside of combat and characters that aren't professional monster exterminators. I grew up on 2nd ed D&D dungeon-crawling, but also playing a Toreador in Vampire where you'd get into a fight maybe every other session and then, often because you screwed up. My perfect game session is 1/3 combat, 1/3 roleplaying and 1/3 discovery/exploration and I want a system to support that. If nothing else, I'm always on the lookout for stuff I can mine for ideas in a d20 game.

On Pathfinder, I do like it and think it improves on 3.x in a lot of ways, but it's still built on 3.x's core and has a lot of the same issues. Mainly, 3.x was a candy store of character abilities where you could go in blind and pick out a bunch of candies and be happy with that, but if you had a character in mind, you just weren't going to find all the right candies to suit that character. Pathfinder offers you a much larger candy store with better flavors, it can be more satisfying, but it's also tougher to navigate the store and still doesn't give a player any access to custom candies. GMs who aren't the best at improvising or like to do everything by the book and shy away from asspulls run into the same problem.

I really didn't have any more trouble prepping or running the engine than any other 3.x game, but I didn't do one-on-one character creation with my last group like I usually do and half of them were new to tabletop games, so they really just weren't creating very solid characters. As a result, they were going into the sessions with zero motivation while I'm a very sandboxy GM, so we just kept running around, aimlessly, while the game kept throwing new junk at us left and right. We also had a really toxic powergamer/rules lawyer that was putting pressure on everyone and just making the game not fun. It devolved into the party traveling around, looking for a monte haul loot game that I just wasn't running. The source of the problems wasn't Pathfinder, it was just the group and my inability to fix it.

 

[Frostyfirefly]

I just reviewed Tenra Bansho Zero:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiQ-mwkem9o

Thanks for telling me about it Touchfuzzy.

 

[potatocat]

lel eye m gameing eleetist

pls 2 b ignor

money > free

havng opnion bad 4 soshul hp

 

[monkeynohito]

Potatocat, that post came off a little rude. There's a lot of tabletop experience in this thread, but it's been general enough we aren't having exhaustive discussions about every game we've played. No one wants Torg dropped on the table without any warning. If someone has played something besides d20 or Storyteller, they're an apex geek, good job, it's just not productive to hold their tastes against them. If you don't like the game, feel free to ***** about it though.

 

[Frostyfirefly]

I agree, Monkeynohito. I have to admit I have a bit of a short fuse for those who resort to personal attacks such as "your taste in rpgs sux dude, and you listed lame games and used arcaic denomination, that's whack" sort of attitude.

If I seem to be ignoting potatocat's further input it's because I am effectively ignoring him with my forum settings; no offense to potatocat

 

[Touchfuzzy]

1. Call of Cthulhu isn't "weird fantasy" its horror.
2. I actually think stating D&D of any type for "High Fantasy" isn't quite right because its more to do with the setting than the rules as a whole. Eberron would be high fantasy.
3. Even though I can't stand either, Pathfinder is improved over 3.x in my opinion, and apparently his as well.
4. There is nothing wrong with Savage Worlds, its a fine game system. (Actually one of my favorite Cyberpunk games is a Savage Worlds game, mostly because the rules of Cyberpunk 2020 (which I seriously love setting wise) is miraculously whack)
5. You made fun of him not mentioning AD&D or a retroclone, but failed to recognize that Lamentations of the Flame Princess is one of the most currently popular OSR games made.
6. You are acting like an elitist prick.

All of his choices were perfectly fine for himself, not the games I would have chosen, but who cares. Hell, I wouldn't have chosen Lamentations of the Flame Princess because I don't like AD&D or Retroclones (I've been playing for a long while now, I did play AD&D... a quarter century ago or so, I just don't care about it anymore).

I'm not saying this as an admin of the forum, but as a fan of TTRPGs, people acting like you is a bane to the hobby. My collection of RPG books is so large I have to have most stuck in bins in storage. I'm definitely a mega RPG fan, but I know not everyone has that level of investment, and you know what, anyone playing is awesome to me, even the people playing games I personally hate.

 

[Frostyfirefly]

 anyone playing is awesome to me, even the people playing games I personally hate.

I'm gonna quote you, that line right there is pure gold.

 

[monkeynohito]

I'm not saying this as an admin of the forum, but as a fan of TTRPGs, people acting like you is a bane to the hobby. My collection of RPG books is so large I have to have most stuck in bins in storage. I'm definitely a mega RPG fan, but I know not everyone has that level of investment, and you know what, anyone playing is awesome to me, even the people playing games I personally hate.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. RPGs have such a small, fickle, compartmentalized fanbase that the hobby as a whole can't afford the toxicity of players taking potshots at each other. That's how D&D really gained such a lock-down on everything. Socializing and cooperation is also such a big part of what we do that we kind of have an obligation to get along more than other nerds.

Moving beyond that, here's a question for the thread: What's your favorite game you've never gotten the chance to play?

I've always been on that epic quest to play something besides D&D, but twenty years later, I'm playing Pathfinder. I like the style, tolerate the system, but I've spent a lot of good money on stuff I could never get more than one other person interested in. Speaking of Ryuutama and Tenra Bansho Zero, I always wanted to spring my copy of Maid RPG on unsuspecting drunks, but haven't had a party at my place in years. The system and concept might leave me with a few less friends without impaired judgement involved. The really tragic one is BESM 3rd ed: it's such a drool-worthy system and I've had a couple fun one-off sessions with 2nd ed, but, not having a physical copy, I couldn't really get anyone else jazzed to play it.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I've played BESM 2e several times, and had built up to do a 3e game but never managed it. I think I would use the OVA system instead now though... but we are waiting on the revised version of OVA and "Wise Turtle Publishing" was wise in picking their mascot. The designer is slow as **** at getting anything done.

I think the game I like the most that I've never gotten to play is Leverage. Everything about the way its structured is perfect for the genre its trying to emulate. I'm strongly considering doing a one shot with it just to see if my playgroup likes it with a low commitment.

 

[Frostyfirefly]

@monkeynohito: Me too, most of the time I've had to play something D&D related. I just purchased the Maid rpg too! But likewise, most of my friends wouldn't enjoy the concept; once I'm a bit less busy, I would like to organize a Play-By-Forum game on rgpgeek, but they way things are now, I'm guessing that's still a few months in the future; I'll let you know then in case you are interested. I've never played BESM.

As to your original question, that would be "Monsters and other childish things"; for those that haven't heard of it, it's a Tim Burtoney game where you play as children or teenagers that have a sort of Lovecraftian pokemon by their side, they can get into all sorts of strange scenarios, from occult conspirations in highschool to an entire town with dark and terrible secrets. It's still a mystery to me why I haven't brought it up to the real or virtual table.

@Touchfuzzy: I've never heard of Leverage, time for me to do some research.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Its based on a TV show, but really its mechanics are basically: Heist Movie: The RPG. I kind of wonder sometimes if the attached IP has helped or hurt it as far as sales because I know that its hard to get people interested in a game based on a moderately successful mainstream American TV show. (Even if I personally actually LIKED the show).

 

[monkeynohito]

As an addendum, I have Fantasycraft and love a lot of what's there, but just can't make enough sense of how it all comes together. I think part of the problem is I have a first edition print, which I've heard is kind of messy.

@Touchfuzzy - Thanks for that heads-up, OVA looks pretty cool. The main barrier to point-based games for most players was always how long and involved chargen was, but it's about the same with Pathfinder core now, so it should be an easier sell.

I always hear people gushing up storms over Cortex games too, but I'd always see all those licensed games connected to it and forget about the core. As someone who loves making up custom content, I never got too excited about published settings and the concept of a licensed setting was practically anathema. Sure, you could file off those parts and run something original, but I imagine players trying their hardest to assume the licensed setting anyway or constantly judging your ideas against the source. As a player, I've constantly seen that guy doing it in Old World of Darkness games or seen GMs timidly running straight out of the books in fear of that guy.

@Frostyfirefly - I never really got the appeal of play-by-post gameplay because I didn't think you could have the level of depth and immediacy to get properly involved in the game, but I could actually see it working well with MaidRPG. For players with reservations about playing a randomgen maid, that level of detachment could really help ease them into it.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Generic Cortex+ Heroic is coming up sometime soon. I still think its worth it to pick up Leverage, since I do think its not as tied to the IP as it could be (it lends itself well to the IP, but that is because Leverage is a heist show through and through and is very archetypical to the genre). Its also a different style of game than Cortex Heroic.

Cortex+ is a weird bird as far as a core system, because each cortex+ game plays pretty differently. You have:

1. Cortex Drama (Smallville)
2. Cortex Action (Leverage)
3. Cortex Heroic (Marvel)

And though each of them use a same basic core concepts, they each play pretty differently. I don't have much experience with Drama, but both Heroic and Action are cool.

 

[Frostyfirefly]

@Touchfuzzy: I've never tried Cortex, but I can imagine drama is a lot harder to handle than action and heroic; there are always so many jokes at my table that it's hard to achieve a level of seriousness required for that type of game.

I can create decent horror though; is there a Cortex Horror?

 

[Omnimental]

@monkeynohito:  I've got Second Edition Fantasy Craft here, and trust me, it's an improvement.  It is still a fair bit complex though.  Still trying to convince my group to give it a shot... they're diehard Pathfinder groupies.