An RPG Maker? With No Scripting?

[Onomotopoeia]

I found a post in the Open RPG Maker forums thread where the lone-developer "Tuxinator" a-k-a Justin is claiming it unnecessary for the editor and engine to be made with any scripting support, although eventing will be part of it. Just curious how prevalent this idea is, if anyone knows any other developers attempting to make their own "rpg maker" editor or engine. I have found several instances where this claim is made, this following quote being the most recent.

Scripting will not be supported as this project is being specifically designed for artists, who don't know any programmers, to be able to make, and sell, a full commercial game. Plus scripting support is not a necessary feature for what Open RPG Maker is designed to do.

Of course, I know if the RPG Maker series of programs went this way, a lot of scripters would be "out of work", so to speak. While anything is technically possible, is it in any sense wise to try to create an rpg-maker program without scripting support/features?

 

[Andar]

That probably refers to one of the many tries to create independent makers that have absolutely nothing to do with Degica or Enterbrain. Nothing posted on openrpgmaker can be considered "official" or representing the opinions from Enterbrain or Degica.


My personal guess? He doesn't want to admit that programming a scripting engine is too much work, so he claims it's for artists. (and it has to be for artists, because he can't legally use the RTP from the official products).


But why should an artist use an engine that has less options than the RPG-Maker, given the low price of Ace (especially if you're willing to wait for a sale)?

 

[Onomotopoeia]

No, I already knew it has nothing to do with the two entities you mentioned. It is a project on SourceForge, and I know Enterbrain at least has no such plans for openness of their projects.


Plans of no scripting support aside, the other features seem like it could be a somewhat promising game maker, although I had somewhat higher hopes for the project, when first finding it listed.


Edit:


And on reexamination of that open project's basic features, it seems development of the editor (and therefore the engine, which is in limbo) seems to be -- somewhat -- stalled, at a point where the next logical conclusion would be to implement a scripting system (at least, I would, if I had any input into its development).


Even the "events" system is not fully fleshed out; maybe as you suggest he has a problem figuring out scripting and eventing? I know those things are not analogous 100%, but eventing seems to be formalized scripting to one aspect of a game development project in RPG Maker.

 

[Galenmereth]

Scripting support was one of the main reasons I went for Ace. Not because my initial game ideas necessarily seemed to require it, but because I know that any engine will put limitations on you: with script support of the likes Ace has, you can push those limitations a lot. So I wouldn't even be interested in an engine of any kind without access to the core functionality of the engine through scripts. Just nope.

 

[TheoAllen]

I found that eventing in RPG Maker is just a point-click programming / scripting.

Some may not consider it as programming. But it is (in my opinion)

They just seems to be easier since you don't need to write and found the syntax error (I think it's the most hated part for non-programmers)

 

[whitesphere]

I think it is very unwise NOT to incorporate scripting support in an RPG making tool.  Why?  The whole point of script support is to allow game developers to add in features that the core engine developers didn't think to add, or to enhance existing features.  I've seen many custom scripts which do things like:

- Add in a custom time system (Harvest Moon/Animal Crossing style)

- Add in an item crafting system

- Completely rewrite the battle engine for side-view, or ATB, or any other style

- Add in complex skill management systems

- Add a much larger number of event-specific Self-switches

Basically, without scripting, the engine's behavior is limited to what the developers put in.  So, any game developers using the non-scriptable engine are completely at the mercy of the original engine developer.  

With scripting, and a large community, the odds are someone has created a script to solve a particular problem, so most users don't need to be programmers at all to benefit from scripts.  Many scripts are of the "Insert me and add the following notetags" format.    So, non-programmers shouldn't need to modify the script anyways.  It can be treated as a black box 99% of the time.

Honestly, I don't think any artist who is computer-savvy enough to be downloading an open source RPG making tool is going to shy away from typing in some text into certain text boxes if s/he really wants to add custom behavior to a game.  

It's sort of like asking "Can you have a cell phone which doesn't support apps?"  Of course you can, but the entire reason smartphones are so popular is solely because you can install apps which add behavior the OEM didn't think to add.

 

[djDarkX]

Well, to shed some clarity about this, remember that Open RPG Maker is based on RPG Maker 2000/2003 which had no scripting options and ran exclusively on events, so that's probably what they are going for, to keep it as close to the original programs as possible.

So yeah, Enterbrain USED to go down this route and when XP came along, they added scripting and it's been far better for development of indie games.

 

[Onomotopoeia]

Yeah, I kinda got some of that, from other posts on the forum. Though I will be the first to admit my only experience with a "proper" game maker has been first with VX Ace Lite, and then the full VX Ace. From time to time I come across forum posts here and on VXAN in comparing to past editions of RPG Maker, and at some point I think it would be a good idea to find an article which describes what has been added or removed in each one, so that I could understand for the historical analysis.


For the most part, I'm glad the VX editor and engine have scripting support at all; though since I'm by nature a Java programmer, the actual Ruby syntax looks alien to me. (My first reaction was, "Where do the import statements go?")

 

[Feldschlacht IV]

Well, to shed some clarity about this, remember that Open RPG Maker is based on RPG Maker 2000/2003 which had no scripting options and ran exclusively on events, so that's probably what they are going for, to keep it as close to the original programs as possible.

So yeah, Enterbrain USED to go down this route and when XP came along, they added scripting and it's been far better for development of indie games.

But why go backwards? RPG Maker 2000/3 was good times, but why make a brand new maker and not put in what's considered now to be the most basic and effective tools?