Anonymity, identity, implications, and solutions

lianderson

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Dodge everything!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.............

Who here has been canceled and why?
 

48Tentacles

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I'm surprised to see many replies. Right now I can't attend to everyone but there is one reply that deserves more attention than others in the first place, and that is something the kind soul @RCXDan did the following:

You could have summarized it as easily as:

"This is a PSA I wanted to make because of [x bad thing that happened to me]. It's become alarming to me that most people don't protect themselves when they go into making projects with other people, especially if they're complete strangers.

Here are a few tips to help protect yourself when you put yourself out there:
* Make written oaths
* Do not share any of your personal information for any given reason
* Be transparent at every moment, because ambiguity can muddle the message you would want to send.
* Start gatekeeping if necessary ([which by the way, author's note, I don't think would work])
* Keep screenshots of troublesome conversations and observe the behavior of problem players in your community, especially if they start to act up. That way when things go south you have an alibi to fall back on when accusations are made.
* Practice self discipline because you will need to be prepared for anything, to not lash out when something goes wrong."
@RCXDan I request you consent and permission to copypaste this text and make this into the TLDR the thread deserves. I know some people can feel annoyed at reading very long texts, specially in serious topics.

EDIT: I'm gonna assume that face with hearts reaction is the permission. I'll update the post, along with some typos. If there is anything in your mind related to this let me know in this thread or send me a PM.
1652307623003.png

This is a PSA I wanted to make because of [x bad thing that happened to me].

For the record, I didn't claim that this bad thing happened to me or any group I'm involved in. It was something I observed that happened to a group as an observer. I cannot say names.
 
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gstv87

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It was something I observed that happened to a group as an observer.
I've been in several groups, and all of them had disagreements.
the worst thing that happened was someone leaving to make their own group and directly oppose ours.

don't take it too serious if *one* person overreacts.
like I said, everyone is gonna be offended somewhere, at any given time.

they don't see society as a collaboration anymore
legit, I submitted the point of "you can have a society without money" in a discussion about economics, and the majority of responses I got were the tone of "Nonsense. We should all strive to compete with one another for the spoils."
like, legit, that's the kind of society people want.
and it's not the US, it's worldwide.
 

Touchfuzzy

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My real identity has been public knowledge for well over about a dozen years now and I've pissed off a lot of different people. In the end, it hasn't mattered all that much. The truth is, while there are people who have tried to harm my position, including at least one person in this very thread, none of it was ever connected to my real name, just bizarre conspiracy theories based on various things that have happened in the community (some of which I wasn't even aware of, yet was blamed for).

Once you get big enough though you kind of lose the anonymity that a username gives you anyway. Like, let's say Markus Persson had never revealed his actual name. It wouldn't matter, because at a certain level of fame, Notch just becomes who he is in the field. There isn't really any "starting over" for him in game development, even if we never knew his "real" name.

Is it a good idea to try to maintain the anonymity that a username provides? Yeah, probably. And I suggest it for most people.

But to be honest: For the most part it is much harder to "cancel" someone than people think. I've been in the RM community for a long time now. Been the official English language spokesman for RM now for over a decade. And there have been quite a few attempts at "cancellation" within the community over the years. Some I think were deserved, some were not.

And to be honest, almost all of those people are still floating around the community somewhere.

Also as a note: If I see people gatekeeping on the forums I will have words. Gatekeeping is not a method of protecting yourself, it is a method for people to try to delegitimize other fans. Everyone starts with a lack of knowledge about a subject. And I don't want to see anyone turning people off from the community before they even have a chance to learn.
 
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ericv00

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My real identity has been public knowledge for well over about a dozen years now and I've pissed off a lot of different people. In the end, it hasn't mattered all that much. The truth is, while there are people who have tried to harm my position, including at least one person in this very thread, none of it was ever connected to my real name, just bizarre conspiracy theories based on various things that have happened in the community (some of which I wasn't even aware of, yet was blamed for).
Are you blasé toward the idea because those attempts failed? I wonder how you would feel about it if any of those attempts had succeeded.
But to be honest: For the most part it is much harder to "cancel" someone than people think. I've been in the RM community for a long time now. Been the official English language spokesman for RM now for over a decade. And there have been quite a few attempts at "cancellation" within the community over the years. Some I think were deserved, some were not.
That's... interesting.

Without knowing the details, I can't say I have a strong opinion on any individual case, but the sentiment is troubling.
And to be honest, almost all of those people are still floating around the community somewhere.
In their original capacity?

So, you say this, but anyone who was harassed out wouldn't be here to speak up against this claim, so how can it be adequately contested?
Also as a note: If I see people gatekeeping on the forums I will have words. Gatekeeping is not a method of protecting yourself, it is a method for people to try to delegitimize other fans. Everyone starts with a lack of knowledge about a subject. And I don't want to see anyone turning people off from the community before they even have a chance to learn.
That is absolutely not what is meant, and it is clear in the OP.

Gatekeeping is a way to moderate changes to a community. It happens anyway in some degree in every community. Newcomers are generally not given the same power to make changes that established members have. Partly because they aren't likely to know the structure of the community, the software, the lore, or what have you. Advocating for gatekeeping is just suggesting that this heirarchy is higher in the community consciousness and priority. In Star Wars terms, the community affords George Lucas more privileges to make changes to lore than Martha Stewart. And even Lucas can't add things too far out from the original vision without scrutiny from the existing fandom. Moving up the hierarchy of influence requires dedication and understanding of the comunity, the lore, and the fandom itself. Gatekeeping is the process of the community being active in scrutinizing changes with weight given to the established members.

Gatekeeping, eh? Just had another thought. Isn't there a number of posts that have to be made before certain boards and features in this community can be used? Sounds like gatekeeping to me. You plan to have words with the powers that be? I imagine not, because you probably think these are good measures. They are.
 

Popoto_milk

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Ngl, didn't read the entirety of this, but looks good for what I did read/skim.

I do have some thoughts on gatekeeping: There really are two definitions floating around. Both are gatekeeping.

The first is your traditional "if you're a fan of x, name [obscure, minutiae detail]." It's little more than elitism that repels those who are new or otherwise not part of a sub-group.

The second is keeping undesirables from a community.
A target of gatekeeping might be those who enter a community, dislike something and try to change it (rather than simply accept it or move on). This is more context dependent than the first kind of course, as being a jerk to someone due to their lack of knowledge is universally considered bad. Keeping undesirables from penetrating a community is much more subjective and vague.
 

Hadria

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In Star Wars terms, the community affords George Lucas more privileges to make changes to lore than Martha Stewart. And even Lucas can't add things too far out from the original vision without scrutiny from the existing fandom.

The second is keeping undesirables from a community.
A target of gatekeeping might be those who enter a community, dislike something and try to change it (rather than simply accept it or move on). This is more context dependent than the first kind of course, as being a jerk to someone due to their lack of knowledge is universally considered bad. Keeping undesirables from penetrating a community is much more subjective and vague.


This is mostly due to the wrong idea people has that everything has to appeal to you as a customer, but that's plainly wrong. In today world's most products are mostly made to appeal to the masses in order to reach the most wide array of customers, this has created a tendency of people thinking they have some kind of divine right to have everything tailored for their tastes, and that for that reason they can impose over a creator what they want. Looking at the recent case regarding Elden Ring's difficulty, or the drama with Kingdom's Come Delivery some time ago, to name some popular examples on the gaming industry.

This however is only applicable if the author wants to buy into that narrative, give up to the pressure and sell his ideas out in order to make it stop, which to be fair is what most companies do nowadays, however cancel culture should be punishable by law the same that harassment is in real life, because at the end of the day is nothing but a form of using force to make others do what you want to.

Other than that, in my opinion anonymity on the internet is, sadly, doomed to go away over time, there is no power that is really benefiting from it, more like the opposite, and as such with no real backing and no real civil pressure to keep it that way it will slowly fade away, and even today is not hard to find who is who on the internet given enough time and technical acknowledgment.
 

48Tentacles

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I will comment here to various replies, not every reply (I'll do another round of replies later). A few remarks I should make before proceeding. When I said the "Compare Deviantart and Pixiv" sentences, I meant their audiences, not their content (because I honestly have seen great works that westerners do), I can guarantee you that you will find good western artists with integrity.
What did I mean by audiences, exactly? Well a great amount of westerners are already policing on independent Japanese artists to a point that there are artists that make, say, "fixes", "redesigns", "corrections"... If you want to make a fanart, and it's because for fun, feel free to do it. But if you make a fanart "to make a statement" then you run the high risk in aligning communities.

Also yes, I am very biased for Japanese works because they focus in providing entertainment first and foremost despite the fact that most of my favorite games are made by westerners, like Black Mesa, Fallout 3, and Project Wingman. I don't think it's too controversial to have this opinion, and I don't think it's strange to think that montages like this became viral:
1652371889537.png

Let's begin.

Um... I've seen a lot of ugly models, both Western and Japanese. This kind of just seems like the opinion of someone who's overly obsessed with Japan, considering a lot of very popular media right now is not Japanese....
If you look in the right places, you will find well done works based on appeal, both Western and Japanese. The problem arises when users have objectives of cyber-stalking artists (Westerners and Asians) and hitting the "report" button (among other things) because appealing art is somehow against their own worldview.

Alright those warnings for the Wii were pretty funny :guffaw: I do agree with your points on how important it is to keep your info safe online. And that first example ... having someone threaten you like that because of a disagreement about a line in a game is scary
I agree. It's scary and disappointing seeing communities being filtered because of disputes like that one. That's why solutions like oaths and screencapping I mentioned above serve to stabilize communities from rebels.

The only time my online presence ever affected my real life, was about four years ago I went on a date with someone. Despite there being no alcohol, the date went really well and we planned for a 2nd, but the next day she said her mom looked me up online and saw that I made a video game. The mother did not approve that I was a maker of the games.
Sorry to hear that. There are artists who generally receive the same wake-up call the hard way when trying to balance their digital lives and real lives. First it was a stigma playing games, now it's a stigma making game. What's next, I wonder?


@ericv00 I agree with most of this, but the reason this isn't getting serious answers isn't because people are downplaying the seriousness of this thread, it's just because it's not a well-written or backed up post.
(sits next to @48Tentacles)


(awkward moment of silence)


...feeling better now?
I don't do roleplay, buddy.

Jokes aside, it's not my place to decide what you should believe in. You and others are the ones who decide to believe if what I've written is true or not, if this mistreatment to artists and developers is right or wrong, if this situation needs a change or not. I have nothing to gain from all of this.

You decide. Not me.

I will reply more comments in the near future.
 

Touchfuzzy

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Are you blasé toward the idea because those attempts failed? I wonder how you would feel about it if any of those attempts had succeeded.

I mean, most of that paragraph was pointing out not that the attempts weren't problematic, but for the most part, people knowing my real name was irrelevant to the problems caused.

That's... interesting.

Without knowing the details, I can't say I have a strong opinion on any individual case, but the sentiment is troubling.

There are always things that actually deserve to be ostracized from the RPG Maker community. I'm not going to apologize for saying that unapologetic proven art thieves have no place here. Or people who've scammed others out of money.

In their original capacity?

More or less. Have people lost some success or access to some forums from things they've said or done? Of course they have. But I don't think anyone would argue that no one should ever be banned from any place ever no matter what they do. Or that people can't choose to associate or not associate with anyone based on their own feelings about the actions they've seen them take.

And we so rarely do ban anyone. Keep in mind my comment that someone in this very thread has spread lies about me personally in an attempt to harm my position. And keep in mind that my position IS MY REAL LIFE JOB. The one I use to keep a roof over my head and keep my children fed. So there is someone here who has actively attempted to have me removed from places as a "danger to the community". The fact that I've taken no move to ban them from here should tell you something.

So, you say this, but anyone who was harassed out wouldn't be here to speak up against this claim, so how can it be adequately contested?

Because I've been around the community for longer than most people have been IN the community or even using RPG Maker, and I know when drama happens here. Trust me, I always end up hearing about it eventually.

And if people are being harassed out of the community, it isn't from people "cancelling" them unfairly. It's from dumb stuff like gatekeeping. Speaking of gatekeeping.

That is absolutely not what is meant, and it is clear in the OP.

Gatekeeping is a way to moderate changes to a community. It happens anyway in some degree in every community. Newcomers are generally not given the same power to make changes that established members have. Partly because they aren't likely to know the structure of the community, the software, the lore, or what have you. Advocating for gatekeeping is just suggesting that this heirarchy is higher in the community consciousness and priority. In Star Wars terms, the community affords George Lucas more privileges to make changes to lore than Martha Stewart. And even Lucas can't add things too far out from the original vision without scrutiny from the existing fandom. Moving up the hierarchy of influence requires dedication and understanding of the comunity, the lore, and the fandom itself. Gatekeeping is the process of the community being active in scrutinizing changes with weight given to the established members.

Dude, he literally suggested quizzing people to determine if they really belonged. That is not "you need to develop a reputation in the community before you gain power in the community".

Additionally, the type of power he is talking about doesn't come from the community itself, but the person's ability to reach others to harass you. That has nothing to do with having a place of power in the community. Quizzing people to "make sure they belong" has nothing to do with that.

Gatekeeping, eh? Just had another thought. Isn't there a number of posts that have to be made before certain boards and features in this community can be used? Sounds like gatekeeping to me. You plan to have words with the powers that be? I imagine not, because you probably think these are good measures. They are.

Those are to help deal with scammers, not determine if someone is a "true fan".

Again, go back and read his comments on gatekeeping. It 100% has to do with making sure someone is a "true fan", and does nothing to solve the actual problem he is addressing (which is overblown).
 
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ericv00

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Oh my goodness gracious. Why am I reading so much... anger... from this thread?
I think it is just you reading that out of the replies. I don't read much emotion from this thread, myself. Just defining of terms and perspective.

This is mostly due to the wrong idea people has that everything has to appeal to you as a customer, but that's plainly wrong. In today world's most products are mostly made to appeal to the masses in order to reach the most wide array of customers,
It is important to emphasize 'customers'. This is the community. Not literally everyone. To continue to use my example from earlier, Star Wars should endeavor to add to its products, lore, and community in a way that appeals to the greatest part of the community. And the community will support or push back against changes or additions that do not appeal to the community. One voice is just one voice, but it adds to the chorus as others express their support or lack of. In this calculation is the hierarchy of established members. The guy who likes the pew pew, but doesn't know what Kashyyk is will not add as much to the chorus as the person who has deeply analyzed the themes and relationships between each of the existing characters. In that fandom, though, that isn't exactly what is happening, so you see the obvious splintering that has been happening since Disney ownership. Stronger gatekeeping would hold that fandom together better. Lesser gatekeeping will see those products be changed into something less and less recognizable as "Star Wars". For anyone who enjoyed it for what it was will see it perish before their eyes. The people who like the changes will not mourn the loss of what it was. Thus, something dies, and the fans of that thing are left with the loss.

The thing is, realizing changes do not need to kill existing fandoms. People can build their own fandoms with the characteristics they desire without cannibalizing others. So it is actually important to practice a certain level of gatekeeping, and let the people who don't like it as it is make their own IPs and fandoms.

Dude, he literally suggested quizzing people to determine if they really belonged. That is not "you need to develop a reputation in the community before you gain power in the community".

Additionally, the type of power he is talking about doesn't come from the community itself, but the person's ability to reach others to harass you. That has nothing to do with having a place of power in the community. Quizzing people to "make sure they belong" has nothing to do with that.

Again, go back and read his comments on gatekeeping. It 100% has to do with making sure someone is a "true fan", and does nothing to solve the actual problem he is addressing (which is overblown).
I think you are making an effort to read that passage uncharitably.

I'm not interested in going into a word for word analysis and whatnot, though. 48Tentacles is part of this thread and I'm not going to put words in their mouth.
 

HOLYMOTHER

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Gatekeeping in the sense of restricting access to materials isn't good for anybody, be it in a hobbyist circle or the highest echelons of academia, but I'm quite the libertine regarding this. Paul Feyerabend wrote a great book called Against Method which can illustrate some ideas in this direction.

As for gatekeeping in the sense of protecting a community against entryists who would subvert it, there are many good arguments to be made in its favor. I don't think there exists a "true fan" of anything, of course, but there are definitely broken hordes of people with identity flaws who would turn any given community into, say (something obscure so as to not offend), the next Panthère des Batignolles rather than Gary's 2nd Edition Revival or whatever it was before. To think otherwise is naive.
 

Touchfuzzy

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but there are definitely broken hordes of people with identity flaws who would turn any given community into, say (something obscure so as to not offend), the next Panthère des Batignolles rather than Gary's 2nd Edition Revival or whatever it was before. To think otherwise is naive.
Of course there is. But trying to identify those people by quizzing them on the subject matter of the community is silly cause there is no correlation between bad actors in the community and people who don't know things about the community. Some of the most toxic people I've encountered in fandoms knew a good bit about the subject itself
 

SigmaSuccour

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The truth is, while there are people who have tried to harm my position, including at least one person in this very thread, none of it was ever connected to my real name, just bizarre conspiracy theories based on various things that have happened in the community (some of which I wasn't even aware of, yet was blamed for).

Keep in mind my comment that someone in this very thread has spread lies about me personally in an attempt to harm my position. And keep in mind that my position IS MY REAL LIFE JOB. The one I use to keep a roof over my head and keep my children fed. So there is someone here who has actively attempted to have me removed from places as a "danger to the community". The fact that I've taken no move to ban them from here should tell you something.


I'm happy they failed.
I'm super glad that you're still around, and staying strong, Nick.

This forum has been immensely helpful to me, and my work. And you've always been the one leading it.
And so, all credit to you, Nick. And thank you.
(I've wanted to say this for a long time. And felt this was a good opportunity to do so.)



This reminds of another idea I've had on cancellations...
When you're online as much as Nick. You're going to leave a trail of dirt, here and there.
Things that can be used against you, to cancel you.
(This can be as simple as: You existing somewhere problematic, without knowing.)

So if you are going to be online, and engage with others publicly. For a dozen+ years.
You're going to lose your anonymity. And you're going to eventually, have attempts of people cancelling you.

The solution? Be kind.
Always speak that which connects, and brings people together.
And never that which disconnects, and creates a divide.


Because when you're being cancelled.
When there are voices all over the internet, saying how bad of a person you are.
When googling your name, only brings up bad and negative headlines.

Then what will save you here... is people speaking up, about the good experiences they've had with you.
And so create those good experiences. Especially, with your enemies.
Because your enemies of yesterday, that become your friend today. Are going to be your strongest ally, against your enemies of tomorrow.

Hope this makes sense.
And I hope this is on topic. Because I still haven't read the initial post. :LZSlol: :LZSlol: :LZSlol:
 

Iron_Brew

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I totally agree that this topic of of the upmost seriousness, but here is the issue:

I'll try to read more of the OP a little later.

The way the topic was written about was so baffling that it requires a lot of mental energy to even get through. From what I can tell the TL;DR is "be careful online, be nice, and don't dox yourself."

Which is good advice for us all.

The rest of this post isn't a reply, and it's not directed towards anyone but is just my thoughts on the subject:

I'm very careful with people knowing who I am online. Like, not to be all MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE about it, but I work in gamedev and really don't want to draw ire towards myself, or have anyone know who I am or what I do because I don't fancy that kind of attention.

The sad fact is that for a lot of people it's more than professional discretion, it's their actual safety. That is especially true for marginalised people, and even more true for marginalised people who happen to be women. Sometimes it's important to remember that not everyone on the other side of the screen has the same sensibilities as you, or is as mentally all there.

I got told I was advocating for violence the other day by saying this, and I promise you I'm not: My rule is don't say anything online you wouldn't say to a burly man in the pub.

The fact that people can't reach through the monitor and thump you isn't a reason to be a prick. If you're only saying something because you're safe in your room, or because you think the other person has a marginalised identity you don't respect then I hate to say it:

You're just a coward.

Edit: And you're even more of a coward if your reaction to someone doing something you dislike online is to try and hurt their real life ability to survive!

Edit2: Lol, I started writing this post when @ericv00 's post was the most recent entry, and now I feel like an arse for having missed so many replies. Lovely to see actual good discourse happening here :D
 
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gstv87

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You're going to leave a trail of dirt, here and there.
Things that can be used against you, to cancel you.
actual point I brought up to 48tentacles: "I might say the same things on and off the internet, but there is that disconnection between my username and my real name"

you may find my real name or even a lost profile in a forgotten website... but I'm sure you can't make the connection to my real me, and more to the point, you can't use that to shame me in front of my friends or relatives because even if they knew about that website, even if they had an online presence, you still don't know who *they* are or if they even care!
not because I would actively remove my online presence to remain anonymous, but because I don't believe in acceptance through social relevance to begin with.
you don't have to befriend me so that I would defend your views, whichever they are, if and when they happen to be put under scrutiny.
if they're valid points, I will defend them, even without friendship.

don't say anything online you wouldn't say to a burly man in the pub
what if you hail from a culture that doesn't do pubs?
I mean, I get the premise of the point, but if you were to take it literally, one can simply be like "I don't do pubs, so I wouldn't know of that limitation"
which is another point I brought up to 48: you don't have to say things that are relevant to you, you have to say things that are relevant to the person you're talking to.
*you* know what it means to be in a pub fight, but other people might not, simply because pubs are not part of their culture.
and yes, I *would* bring up the same point to a burly man in a pub, off the internet.


a few minutes ago, I was going through this in my head, and it occurred to me that all of this (putting your name on the line and leveraging other people's opinion) is plain politics.
especially in the US with its society and how kids are brought up: "be popular in high-school", "have a decent job thus enabling you to access society", "get married and start a family thus realizing yourself", etc.... those are valid values, but other societies still work without considering them or having them as pillars of their culture.
anything that stems from that society and its behavior must be identified as such before being analyzed, because it is NOT the same across the world.
 

Mr. Detective

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I'll comment when I have time. In the meantime, you all have some of this:

HEALTH-BENEFITS-OF-SUGARCANE-JUICE.jpg
 

residntevl

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And we so rarely do ban anyone. Keep in mind my comment that someone in this very thread has spread lies about me personally in an attempt to harm my position. And keep in mind that my position IS MY REAL LIFE JOB. The one I use to keep a roof over my head and keep my children fed. So there is someone here who has actively attempted to have me removed from places as a "danger to the community". The fact that I've taken no move to ban them from here should tell you something.
Gonna jump in on this and admit I was at a position in my life who was readily angry over past disputes (not with you specifically) that lead me to making claims egged on by the person you're discussing. So if you saw anything from me (as I'm sure you do know everything) I don't stand by anything I said. I fell into the trap of conspiratorial thinking because I felt incensed over things that don't matter in the ways I thought they did.

It's really easy to mislead someone into getting upset at the thought of 'cancel culture' and not realize the exact thing that they're doing is what cancelers actually do.

People talking trash on Twitter, Facebook, whatever is not cancel culture that's getting the expected backlash for bad behavior. What is cancel culture is people plotting to take others down based on bad behavior, whether it be real or imagined.
 

Nenen

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While It's not perfect, I feel that the thread's OP (as of it's last update yesterday) isn't so badly written... Also @RCXDan's TLDR is pretty good.
I've also read about the subject and encountered various similar events elsewhere, so that might be playing into my ?objection?


I do want to mention this, Just because you've personally not encountered real bad actors, doesn't mean they don't exist. At this point I would think we all know about the (real) horror stories of people even getting killed by Swatting over some ridiculous reason, but if you don't, a quick search should lend you the knowledge quickly.

Even if it's not as extreme as that, a lot of the suggestions here are pretty good rules of thumb anyway, especially self-discipline and transparency (while keeping personal information private).

Sometimes, all it takes in one bad apple. Hence this need for caution.

Edit:
Also @SigmaSuccour is correct, Kindness really is a good virtue to nurture. That way when people claim you're some bad apple, they will at some point be ashamed because of your good testimony.



Regarding the whole, Japanese VS Western thing... Isn't this a little bit too much like picking on the one off detail? (I mean it can be discussed since it's part of the post, but almost exclusively focusing on that feels wrong IMO)

Now, while I've sometimes felt a similar to @48Tentacles, there's actually a lot of reasons why it's a bit unfair of a statement.
The wildly imperfect Comic's Code really hurt US-based comics (can't really speak to europe, since I know even less about the situation there), even causing the monopolies that are DC and Marvel (which only recently started to lose their hold) which is also a big part of it.
Meanwhile in Japan, (though they had some strict rules as well earlier) actually managed to have/keep multiple genres pretty early on (perhaps in large part thanks to Tezuka's wide range of stories) also the extreme competitiveness somewhat lends itself to for a push to rise above others , which can be a mixed thing, at times both a blessing and a curse (since it's also chasing what sells)...

Anyway, now; Indies and smaller labels in western markets are pushing the ridiculous creative boundaries that DC and Marvel had long become accustomed to (honestly they've become a little too comfortable even now), and there's actually quite a few great 'Not From Japan' mangas that from both the US and Europe.

Then, unless you can access everything that's available in Japan, you are getting only what they consider good/lucrative enough to translate.

And... That's most of what I know about it. Recently most of the good stories I've been experiencing have been from various Japanese medias, and I'm sure that's partly why Tentacles thinks such. But I do know that there's lots of great works from Western creatives as well.


And now I'm guilty of talking about the Off-point more then the main point.:kaoswt2:
 
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Ratatattat

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Maybe it's because I'm a fellow long-winded person, but I didn't think the OP was too bad. It wasn't perfectly organized, but I don't expect that outside of an English class or formal publication. Overall I got the points, the seemingly-unrelated supporting examples, and how they actually are meant to connect.

I think it's generally a good list of advice (although Dan's TL;DR definitely helped pulling it all out of the original piece), despite there being a few one-liners or tangent sentiments I disagreed with. Perhaps some people feel the post is overblowing the issue because it's such a thorough, dramatic presentation that, to anyone else, came out of seemingly nowhere? And/or due to some people having been familiar with the kind of landscape described in the OP for a long time, and therefore didn't take anything new out of reading it? It seems to me like the post was just inspired by particular recent events the poster witnessed, perhaps the "straw that broke the camel's back" after a long history of witnessing similar events. This is something I do sometimes. If an issue is flashing in neon lights in front of my face, it's easy to forget that it may be totally off of everyone else's radar - or, already on it to the point of desensitization (kinda like, "yeah, welcome to the club" lol).

Personally, I have no foot in the game development world besides the tiny window afforded by these forums. I'm studying to be a veterinarian; making games with RPG Maker is just a hobby for me. A passionate one at that, and one that I don't discount could end up with a published title and/or some side cash someday, but it still means I'm not generally aware of these kinds of things happening in the game dev world. So this whole thread has been enlightening, both in learning about certain events/phenomena, as well as a decent array of different perspectives.

(I'm wording this vaguely so far, because there've just been so many different little topics brought up.)

As for my perspective, I've got to echo a few sentiments in this thread I strongly agree with and am glad have been brought up:

  • The fact that "cancel culture" isn't just publicly criticizing someone, but the active attempting to impact their real lives.
  • That "gatekeeping" is at worst harmful when applied incorrectly (i.e. in the elitist sense), and at best ineffective when applied in the sense of testing knowledge to prevent bad behavior (not sure how that would work, as was already mentioned, you don't need a place of power in a community to sic another one - or the general public - against it).
  • That while doxing may have little consequence for some (heck, every politician, celebrity, and member of a traditional company have always had their real names out there), it certainly can and has caused real danger and harm - even death - to some, and is therefore definitely a serious topic worth discussing.
  • That making a bold statement about members of one culture being generally more creative and those of another is a bad look and probably not what should be the focus of this thread :kaocry: It literally just comes down to personal opinion. That's it. When it comes up, I always say Japan produces the weirdest commercials and that they're masters of the horror genre - but I don't mean it seriously, because the US truly has some equally bizarre commercials, and I know Japan is not a monolith and incredible horror media comes from all around the world. I just don't take these sorts of opinions/generalizations too seriously.

Also I just have to take this chance to say that every time I see @Touchfuzzy get involved in a thread, reading what he has to say only ever reinforces my appreciation that he is the head honcho here. I've never seen an admin participate so actively with their community while remaining both very human and consistently grounded and reasonable.
 
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