Anyone Else...Let Down by MV?

[TheReboot]

So, I download the trial for MV, because for 80$ I wanted to know what I was buying. And, well, I was let down. Hard.

Now, let me begin this by saying I went into this completely intent on buying this software and came out of it ...truely not interested in the content they "added" to the maker. I'll do my best to remain objective about this, and explain my reasoning.

PROS

1.  The new character generator is fantastic, it looks great and has some new features that make it much more useful.
2. They kept the mapping system the way it was and just improved how it looked at tile sets, allowing for nicer maps without making users learn a new method.
3. Eventing is virtually untouched, which makes things easier for someone like me who primarily does eventing.
4. The larger variety of tile sets is greatly appreciated, and they genuinely look good.
5. You can now make games for mobile platforms, which is great!

CONS

1. The sheer lack of any effort put into the database is unacceptable. They put the least amount of effort they could into this, it is a clone of Ace's database...minus all the entries. Even classes where never setup properly.
2. While they added a lot of new tiles, they also kept a lot of older ones. Some where redrawn and look much better from it, some however don't look like they really were, instead they look like they just copied them from the last Maker.
3. The Eventing System is untouched. They made no changes at all to it, and even left one command broken. It literally does nothing.
4. Technically speaking, MV is the equivalent of Ace with scripts. Like, 5 scripts. The code itself wasn't even properly redone, just converted to Java. So it, most likely, wasn't really optimized to run on Java.
5. The new menus/windows aren't designed well for smaller screens. The icons are large and even the toolbar is unusually larger. The program cannot be snapped to either side of the screen without still 75% of the screen. But, I'll blame this on the size of my laptop screen.

In conclusion, I am disappointed in the quality of the content they have provided. And I just wanted to get this off my chest so I can stop thinking about it. @_@ It really bothered me.

Remember; this is just my opinion, if you plan on (or already have) bought this product then great! You're supporting a fantastic company.

 

[Hoppy]

The only real non-technical issue is the character generator, while in depth is also barren at the same time, I'm desperate for DLC, there's also assets missing.   This needed a couple of paid or free standalone non-preorder day 1 resource packs for the character generator.

 

[Anime_Fusion]

Comming from RPG Maker 2003, I find it fantastic after adding plug ins. I believe over time, this will show it's full potential. Sometimes this happens when programs first release. Hopefully you keep at it and change your mind! Though, like I said, I came from RPG Maker 2003. I will say though, i'm not a huge fan of the sprites. The big heads are kind of annoying for the default and I thought the previous rpg makers had better faces too. Most of this is no big deal though, because I'm trying to customize as much as I can, just gonna take some time.

 

[Chester]

MV is great and I'm happy that they kept it similar to ACE or otherwise my 3 years with ACE would have been for nothing and about the database, it doesn't matter because if you're really serious about making a game, you would wish that the database is already emptied to save you the trouble of emptying it yourself.

For those of you who are unhappy with MV...Juvia will take care of you...Meowuahahahahahahaha!

 

[Kane Hart]

I'm just going to answer your cons for now.

1. The current database is a lite version. They are actively translating the database and will have an update in the near future. 
2. Sadly I have to agree the tiles do look good it's also mostly a replica and not very interesting. Something also look more out of place from ace re-sizing. The community will hopefully overtime help gap some of these issues. 
3. Remember their rewriting/or converting it everything from scratch from what I understand. So the idea is to bring back the event system as it was rather then have a 100% redone unfamiliar system. Though they could of put a few new functions in.
4. The client blows right now. There is no doubt that it's not very optimized. Some the libs their using ended up having major update to version 3 for example that has offered tons of improvements.... Sadly I have no clue if anyone will update and fix this or will have to wait for the community to do it.
5. Not sure if you mean in game or out of game but the whole export to mobile was just a fast go over. It's not proper mobile setup period. Sure the community will fix this but it's sort of a joke how bad the android/iphone setup is. The editor is also quite bad low performance rate slight lag when first using tiles for me anyways. Overall just a ton of issues.

I fine overall MV sucks but also do understand it's their first port to the new engine... I personally don't trust or believe they will actually do massive fixes overtime.. I really would bet that they will not be the saviors we paid or need. The good news is I bet the community will fix the client up good overtime and rewrite parts of it and optimize it and such. But why they not the ones being paid for it then? It's sad if we paid $80 when the community is expected to pull its load down the road.

The best thing is the client is 100% open source so at least we are lucky but if someone was brand new to RPG Maker and did not want to use plugin support etc... I would tell them to run away from MV. Far away.

This is all my opinions and experience with MV so far. 

I will of course change my opinions overtime where I see fit as in the developers for example rewrite part of the way tiles are rendered for example etc..

 

[Chaos Avian]

PROS

1. Eventing is virtually untouched, which makes things easier for someone like me who primarily does eventing.

CONS

1. The Eventing System is untouched. They made no changes at all to it, and even left one command broken. It literally does nothing.

^ Going to need to elaborate on those points lol (why fix something that isn't broken?)

 

[Kane Hart]

^ Going to need to elaborate on those points lol (why fix something that isn't broken?)

I have a feeling it was more on new functions and features. I hardly used the event system and I'm shame of it and will change that overtime. But I'm sure there is a lot of issues or limitations that others would have experience overtime that they hoped to see in new versions. 

 

[bgillisp]

Personally, I did, as I see it as just a shinier VXAce myself, and I could care less about graphics. Then again, I grew up on those old ASCII games where the hero was a  that attacked a D that stood for a dragon, so I'm probably in the minority. Maybe once more plug-ins come out and the memory leak bug is fixed I'll feel better about it.

 

[TheReboot]

^ Going to need to elaborate on those points lol (why fix something that isn't broken?)

The way the eventing system functioned was perfectly fine, but their were parts that could have been improved here and there. The fact that they did nothing to it, and even left one command broken, is the main reason I listed it as a con. It's a small one.

 

[The Florana Princess]

The only thing I'm over the moon about is the character generator, but with that I have a problem with the lack of clothing options. Very lacklustre.

Perhaps over the course of a year there might be updates to it, but like you said it's very barren. I'll be sticking to Ace for now unless steam has a sale and it gets lowered to $40-50 (which I think is a reasonable price for something like this). I would happily pay $80 if it was worth $80, but the product value is way overpriced for the skeleton we have here.

 

[Kane Hart]

Personally, I did, as I see it as just a shinier VXAce myself, and I could care less about graphics. Then again, I grew up on those old ASCII games where the hero was a  that attacked a D that stood for a dragon, so I'm probably in the minority. Maybe once more plug-ins come out and the memory leak bug is fixed I'll feel better about it.

I would be using 32x32 tiles right now if they actually had taken 10 minutes and added tile support in the editor. I don't actually feel like using 3rd party editors or having to convert things up etc.

I have a bigger feeling maybe I will be proven wrong but they will make more money people buying 48x48 assets then they would if everyone could easily go back to 32x32 via the editor.

I'm almost tempted to do something naughty to prove a point because will get a how would you know it's easy to make the editor support 32x32 lol. 

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I fine overall MV sucks but also do understand it's their first port to the new engine... I personally don't trust or believe they will actually do massive fixes overtime.. I really would bet that they will not be the saviors we paid or need. The good news is I bet the community will fix the client up good overtime and rewrite parts of it and optimize it and such. But why they not the ones being paid for it then? It's sad if we paid $80 when the community is expected to pull its load down the road.

How about you wait more than 3 days before accusing us of lying about fixes coming.

You get a lot of latitude because there are some issues that need to be addressed, but I'm not having you come in and fearmongering. Fixes are being worked on.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

On the subject of MV being a Skeleton, I'm very curious what people mean by this.

What is it missing that is making it a skeleton?

 

[Garsto]

How old is MV, exactly? As far as I know, it's brand spankin' new. 

A rocky start is almost expected, right?

 

[Astel]

I don't feel disappointed, it was money well spent

However i feel that the generator could have used a little more polish and more parts.

 

[Kane Hart]

How about you wait more than 3 days before accusing us of lying about fixes coming.

You get a lot of latitude because there are some issues that need to be addressed, but I'm not having you come in and fearmongering. Fixes are being worked on.

I'm not fear mongering. Look it up. I'm telling the truth from the past. There has always been major issues and flaws that never been fixed before.

If you can provide proof I be more then happy to give you a quick run down of current major issues faces from Ace and down and we can talk about fixing them.

The point is you guys have History of not fixing or even adapting to western culture. This is not fear mongering this is just how it has been. 

Maybe things will change overtime for the better but I'm only going based what I have experienced in the past. I do hope for a bright future and reason why I said I would change some my opinions later on. 

Unless this is actually a Free Speech issue?

Will make a deal. You impress me overtime I will support you all the way. But you have to show me it first

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Ok, I'm game, what are these major flaws in Ace (other than things that it was never intended to do)

 

[Kane Hart]

Ok, I'm game, what are these major flaws in Ace (other than things that it was never intended to do)

I don't think it be fair for me to play this game only because I don't considered scripts a fix to core game issues but rather a work around.

 

[Banquo]

I don't think it be fair for me to play this game only because I don't considered scripts a fix to core game issues but rather a work around.

Actually a script makes more sense. It's safe and can be removed if it messes with whatever other scripts you have installed.Secondly, you can make changes to it as well. While I don't think that you need to do that, the more you have control over, the better.

I'm not sure about this one, but it looks to me like Steam added these fixes for me. I didn't notice it, didn't have to do anything, which is as good as any patch.

Maybe you don't see a script as a patch, but it does patch the game even more conveniently - so what?

@OP:

Would you really have used the old database? The first thing I usually do is deleting every entry, because I want my own weapons and items.

And about the window size. I haven't tried it out yet, but I'm sure there'll be fixes for it. Point is, I feel safe, because someone will help me out if MV doesn't work right.

Also, it's Javascript, not Java.

 

[Mouser]

CONS

1. The sheer lack of any effort put into the database is unacceptable. They put the least amount of effort they could into this, it is a clone of Ace's database...minus all the entries. Even classes where never setup properly.
2. While they added a lot of new tiles, they also kept a lot of older ones. Some where redrawn and look much better from it, some however don't look like they really were, instead they look like they just copied them from the last Maker.
3. The Eventing System is untouched. They made no changes at all to it, and even left one command broken. It literally does nothing.
4. Technically speaking, MV is the equivalent of Ace with scripts. Like, 5 scripts. The code itself wasn't even properly redone, just converted to Java. So it, most likely, wasn't really optimized to run on Java.
5. The new menus/windows aren't designed well for smaller screens. The icons are large and even the toolbar is unusually larger. The program cannot be snapped to either side of the screen without still 75% of the screen. But, I'll blame this on the size of my laptop screen.

In conclusion, I am disappointed in the quality of the content they have provided. And I just wanted to get this off my chest so I can stop thinking about it. @_@ It really bothered me.

Remember; this is just my opinion, if you plan on (or already have) bought this product then great! You're supporting a fantastic company.

Let me go down this list real quick:

1) They've already released an updated database. A lot of things were held up by translation issues. Beyond that though, the database is just there to give you ideas and provide enough to make a basic game. With the 'full' database, I think they succeeded there.

2) I'm glad they kept a bunch of old tiles. I've already gone and resized some of my Ace tilesheets to use in MV.  Would I like more? Always. Do I expect tileset DLC down the road? You bet - both from Enterbrain and from the community (Celianna's absolutely rock!).

3) If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Which is the command that 'does nothing', btw?

4) This is so far from reality and the main reason I'm bothering to reply to this.

ACE was written in C. MV is written in Javascript.

I think half the complaints about MV stem from people not understanding the ramifications of that change. Those "five scripts" you mention? That's the engine code. As far as I can tell, nothing is hidden any more. We can change whatever we want, and do it easily and cleanly without resorting to 'hacks'. The tradeoff is performance. There is no way a program written in Javascript is going to perform at the level of one written in C (and a lot Ruby is actually written in C, as well).  Could they have completely redesigned the codebase? Yes, at a much greater increase in cost to develop, and in cost to the community of completely negating all the time people spent learning how the older engines worked.

5) Yep, let's blame that on your laptop screen - I'm developing on a 27" widescreen monitor and the sidebars are fine