Are games getting worse?

[Qeo]

I feel sorry for kids these days. When I was young I had Mario 64, Zelda: Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, Final Fantasy 7, 8 and 9 for example.

These days? They get New Super Mario Bros, New Super Mario Bros Wii, New Super Mario Bros 2, New Super Mario Bros Wii U, Zelda: Skyward Sword, Final Fantasy 13 and its sequels.

Yes I know I only included the least original recent Mario games, but something about the two galaxy games was depressing to me. Too much time in space maybe. I never did get Super Mario 3D World [name bothers me] but the trailer where Mario says "Meow!" just rubbed me the wrong way.

And remember the great games Rare would make?

-stops rant- Let me know your opinions.

 

[ElementalLight]

i dont know i kind of agree but hyrule warriors looks really good and smash 4

 

[Qeo]

i dont know i kind of agree but hyrule warriors looks really good and smash 4

There are still good games coming out, just not as many it seems. Those ones look good,

I was worried that in hyrule warriors it turned out that Cia was just possessed by Ganondorf and it would turn out that he's the main villain - Overusing villains is a huge nono to me since they get less threatening with every defeat. Bowser is the worst of this, he's been the final boss in about 20 Mario games or more. I did hear you could play as Ganondorf which is awesome.

Pity they got rid of cutscenes or Smash 4... Very odd to me, but the gameplay looks good at least.

 

[supercow]

depends on what type of games i guess but we are getting more advanced, id say games are much more awesome BD

MetalGearSolid , monster hunter for starters

 

[Qeo]

depends on what type of games i guess but we are getting more advanced, id say games are much more awesome BD

MetalGearSolid , monster hunter for starters

supercow! Nice to see a fellow Gamefacer.

Metal Gear Solid, I guess I'm just not into stealth and non-fantasy settings. I don't know anything about Monster Hunter though.

 

[Bukarett]

No, the games are not getting worst, but we are getting older. Some of these games will have a special place in the heart of this kids in their future, you'll see. I tend to look and judge games not by comparing them to the older ones because that is unfair, our generation moved up a lot and games evolved with it. We can all sit and complain how the games used to be better, but the truth is they weren't. These old classics that we always speak of are not the greatest games in the world, its just our nostalgia speaking. 

And the new Metal Gear Solid game is the Beast, its owning all of the previous games.

 

[Shelby]

If you are thinking about the mario and zelda series then you don't even need to ask the question, read the news about what Nintendo is doing, and how they are finally admitting their failures as a company, like making a crap system and then asking game studios like the ppl that made Skyrim to make games for it, and they say no.

The games are worse because the company is worse.

 

[Scythuz]

There were a comparable amount of bad games back then as there are now.  We tend to gloss over them though due to nostalgia.  Games have gotten better, but we've also gotten harsher.  There are many games from the past which get praised as the best games ever but I can guarantee they still have a sizable amount of flaws.

It all comes down to objectiveness and not letting your nostalgia overly influence your view of things.  In these past years we have also got games like Dark Souls 2, Bayonetta, Trackmania 2, Crusader Kings 2, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Bioshock Series, Left 4 Dead and I could go on all day to be quite frank. There are a ton of awesome games out there for each console.  

In reference to op's post; Super Mario 3D World is one of the best mario games I've played in a long time and I actually like it more than Super Mario 64, even Sonic had a comeback of sorts with Sonic Generations.  Just because a series you used to like isn't doing so well anymore doesn't mean you can't either 1. Wait for the inevitable comeback game (and this has happened a lot recently) or 2. Try out the new series that have came along and staked their own claim in gaming's future.

We've had old genres revitalised and new ones made, all you have to do is take off your nostalgia goggles and look a little harder...  why enjoy just one era of games when you can enjoy them all?

 

[Qeo]

No, the games are not getting worst, but we are getting older. Some of these games will have a special place in the heart of this kids in their future, you'll see. I tend to look and judge games not by comparing them to the older ones because that is unfair, our generation moved up a lot and games evolved with it. We can all sit and complain how the games used to be better, but the truth is they weren't. These old classics that we always speak of are not the greatest games in the world, its just our nostalgia speaking.

And the new Metal Gear Solid game is the Beast, its owning all of the previous games.

I thought someone would say something like this. How have games evolved other than graphics really?

You really don't see a difference in quality with the games I talked about?

There were a comparable amount of bad games back then as there are now. We tend to gloss over them though due to nostalgia. Games have gotten better, but we've also gotten harsher. There are many games from the past which get praised as the best games ever but I can guarantee they still have a sizable amount of flaws.

It all comes down to objectiveness and not letting your nostalgia overly influence your view of things. In these past years we have also got games like Dark Souls 2, Bayonetta, Trackmania 2, Crusader Kings 2, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Bioshock Series, Left 4 Dead and I could go on all day to be quite frank. There are a ton of awesome games out there for each console.

In reference to op's post; Super Mario 3D World is one of the best mario games I've played in a long time and I actually like it more than Super Mario 64, even Sonic had a comeback of sorts with Sonic Generations. Just because a series you used to like isn't doing so well anymore doesn't mean you can't either 1. Wait for the inevitable comeback game (and this has happened a lot recently) or 2. Try out the new series that have came along and staked their own claim in gaming's future.

We've had old genres revitalised and new ones made, all you have to do is take off your nostalgia goggles and look a little harder... why enjoy just one era of games when you can enjoy them all?

I know even the -good- games I mentioned have flaws that didn't bother me as a kid but I'm certain they are less flawed than the new ones I mentioned.

Bayonetta looks cool, the character kind of irritates me though.

As for a new series... I can't think of a single series I'm interested in right now. Ni no Kuni looked great but I heard there is a lot of grinding required and I just don't do that anymore. Xenoblade looks fun and I'm glad there's going to be a sequel.

 

[C-C-C-Cashmere (old)]

I thought someone would say something like this. How have games evolved other than graphics really?

Looooooool games have evolved in a plethora of ways other than graphics. New genres have been created: tower defense, MOBA, FPS... old genres have been revamped (revisiting Ocarina of Time will tell you that its controls are clunky, its camera angles are always wrong and the gameplay mechanics are nothing compared to today's), pixelated indie games are pushing the envelope with vast, procedurally generated worlds and quests... the industry is chock-full of innovation in its full glory. Even in the past 2 years there have been very very many improvements - hobbyists are able to make games that the world would have never seen otherwise, games that rock so much.

So no, games have evolved wayyyyyyyyy more than just graphics, and are innovating in every arena.

 

[Qeo]

Looooooool games have evolved in a plethora of ways other than graphics. New genres have been created: tower defense, MOBA, FPS... old genres have been revamped (revisiting Ocarina of Time will tell you that its controls are clunky, its camera angles are always wrong and the gameplay mechanics are nothing compared to today's), pixelated indie games are pushing the envelope with vast, procedurally generated worlds and quests... the industry is chock-full of innovation in its full glory. Even in the past 2 years there have been very very many improvements - hobbyists are able to make games that the world would have never seen otherwise, games that rock so much.

So no, games have evolved wayyyyyyyyy more than just graphics, and are innovating in every arena.

Y'know, I'm still not seeing the whole evolution thing. I played ocarina of time recently and I felt that Skyward Sword was more clunky. I haven't played any games that impressed me with how "evolved" they are compared to those days. Graphics and better "quality" music is all that has come. I'm glad about the whole indie games thing because now there's a higher chance I'll actually have fun with a game again.

I'm so tired of open world sandbox games like GTA5 or Skyrim. Can't I just have a fun adventure with a good story, interesting characters with lots of fun sidequests?

 

[Galenmereth]

Super Mario 3D World is the best mario game I've played since Super Mario World on SNES. Yes, I think it's better than SM64, too. It's amazing.

Overall I think there's more good games now than ever before. But since there's more games released in total than ever before, it can be much harder finding them.

 

[Scythuz]

What you have to remember is that as games innovate and get better in some areas, they're also worse in some others.  It's a natural thing to happen, though things are getting better as technology advances.  If it were up to me we'd sacrifice the technical aspects and focus on gameplay mechanics, as a musician this also means focusing more on making music for games rather than films.  

Do we really need all those graphical and audio enhancements to enjoy a game after all?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that games are getting better, but, they're not getting better in the areas we want them to get better in all the time. Developers/publishers/game companies are pushing for all kinds of innovation, a lot of which comes at a price.  Want to have the game run at smoother frame rates?  That'll be a cut in the overall graphical fidelity/quality.  Want to have big cinematic moments?  You'll have to sacrifice gameplay and player control. Want to have a big epic plot line with forces beyond human comprehension involved?  You might have to sacrifice you smaller moments like character development and side stories.  Want big orchestral scores?  Say hello to textures and goodbye to melody.

As games get newer we got more options like above, we also have to make more sacrifices in one form or another to be able to use said options.

Of course, each of the above statements aren't set in stone, there will be times when both areas are satisfied at the cost of other elements or simply time/money.  There are games out there which focus on the elements that you as a person find preferable, finding them amongst all the new games is just harder than it used to be.  It's one of the drawbacks of the medium's expansion.

No matter what happens there though I think it could be said that game development is kind of like the idea behind alchemy, you transmute one material for another.

 

[zDS]

Games are better than ever these days. Sure, New Super Mario Bros 2 is super disappointing, but on the same 3DS you can get games like Mario Land 2, and on Wii/Wii U you have a bunch of options of the greats like Mario 3, Earthbound, Ocarina of Time, etc. There is still a bunch of great new games that are great, such as 3D World (yes, even with the meow), Pikmin 3, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, and so on; and that is only Wii U alone, not counting all the other consoles like 3DS, PS3/4, etc. Then there's Steam, where there's an ocean of great games, big companies and indie games alike. Even though New Super Mario Bros 2 forgot the magic of the games we grew up with, these indie guys (like us presumably) do remember and the good ones convey the good ol' fashion magic of video games from back in the day. We have more options than ever now.

 

[Seacliff]

I never really cared too much for Mario 64 to begin with. And I agree that Mario 3D World is one of the best Mario games to date. (Can't beat Galaxy though, that's my all time fav.)

Anyways, this feels like a counter to this thread.... just saying.

 

[supercow]

supercow! Nice to see a fellow Gamefacer.

haha   yeah you too, sorry you kindda changed your avatar so i dont really recognize you + i have terrible memory to remember names and such (not joking).

 

[whitesphere]

Some of it is how much our own lives have changed.  When we were kids, we had much more free time, so spending hours playing and re-playing, say, Super Mario World, to get past a particular block, was OK and even fun.

Now, many of us have far more obligations as adults, from full time jobs to, for some of us, children to take care of, as well as far many more things we do in our free time.  This means our gaming-specific free time is much rarer and therefore more precious.  So, when we play a video game, we aren't willing to invest hours and hours of repetitive play for a payoff.

I don't think we expect instant gratification, but if a game isn't amusing to us, we tend to stop playing and do something else unrelated with our time.  Whereas as a kid, we might just pop in a new game.

I do agree that AAA games are becoming more corporate, due to the vast investments of cash and time required.  So, to make their investment back, many games have become more generic.  But then again, so are movies and many other forms of entertainment.

So, part of it is definitely just sheer nostalgia, part of it is how corporate many games have become, and part of it is the trouble in finding games that appeal to our profoundly changed lifestyle (as compared to us when we were kids).

 

[Qeo]

"Want to have a big epic plot line with forces beyond human comprehension involved?  You might have to sacrifice you smaller moments like character development and side stories." - You can do both. FF7 and Majora's Mask come to mind.

"Want big orchestral scores?  Say hello to textures and goodbye to melody." There can still be good melodies in orchestral scores... Just not as many as there was.

zDS, it's good to hear about indie games being a thing now. If there's an indie game that's anything like mystical ninja 2 on 64 I'd love to know about it.

Platforming + Towns and sidequests. I loved it.

Seacliff - I read that thread up until he said "Deal with it." I don't read posts by people who have "Deal with it" or "whether you like it or not" in their posts.

Whitesphere - I haven't got a full time job or children so I can play games but there's nothing I've been wanting to play. I like games with a sense of humor. Ones where you don't play as a teenage boy and  where the characters are like real people with no cheesy nonsense dialogue about "darkness" or "hearts"

 

[Indrah]

There have been great games and lots of **** in all eras of gaming. The sandards change a bit with the times but the're always going to be jewels hiding among the turds. It's just easier to rely on nostalgia and remember all the games you liked, pointedly forgetting all the other MOUNTAINS of games back then that were **** too.

Also the younger you are, the less jaded and readier your enjoyment of a game. It's natural to remember how much FUN you had when you were younger and you were not quite so saturated with games yet and easy to please.

A lot of the considered classic games are not perfect if you play them now. FF7's sprites are a joke. Ocarina of Time has some really bland puzzles if you stop and look at them (shooting an arrow and an eye. x100 times!) and so on.

There's always going to be great games that stand the test of time, even in mdoern times. I'm ready to say Journey, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, the Dark Souls franchise and a lot more games are ****ign AWESOME. THere have been TONS of awesome games coming out. Even the "great classics" or "golden eras" were only a small group of games among the whole.

On the other hand, gaming is HUGE now. There is crap. a LOT of crap. This is natural. There was also a metric ****ton of crap in ye olde gaming era. Heck, how many comedic game reviewers make a living out of displaying that? It's just that nowadays gaming is HUGE, and the sheer AMOUNT of games in general means a big part of them is going to be mediocre or bad.

Also people are pickier. If you make a kid used to modern video game conventions play a snes game he's going to throw that crapoli at your head. We've come really far in a lot of aspects, and that's not a bad thing. There's always little niches that revive old "classic" stuff if you're really into it. Sure, every peropod ahs certain flaws (nowadays many AAA companies put too much store in graphics over everthing else) but all periods have their quirks, those go in fads, like everything else.

The whole "gaming has gone to ****" seems to be a really popular phase most people go by. It really hasn't. It's your nostalgia and the start of you growing up and being more demanding of your hobbies. This isn't a bad thing, after all we have a VAST friggin gamescape nowadays. You can find anything you friggin want in there if you look hard enough.

And hey, even hobbyists like us can now make our dream games with moderate ease. Thats a definite "F*CK YEAH!".

So no, I do not believe it's as dire as all that. Gaming is pretty much the same, just grown up. Some aspects of it have gotten aggravating, like any media when it becomes huge, but there will always be great games in there.

 

[Scythuz]

"Want to have a big epic plot line with forces beyond human comprehension involved?  You might have to sacrifice you smaller moments like character development and side stories." - You can do both. FF7 and Majora's Mask come to mind.

"Want big orchestral scores?  Say hello to textures and goodbye to melody." There can still be good melodies in orchestral scores... Just not as many as there was.

Of course, each of the above statements aren't set in stone, there will be times when both areas are satisfied at the cost of other elements or simply time/money.  

^^^ That's the counter point I have prepared for that there.  With big budget games like Zelda or Final Fantasy it's most likely to be the money part.  More budget will have been available to the companies back then as games won't have been as expensive to produce as they are now.  After all there just wasn't the technology for big cutscenes & high-tech graphics back then so it would have been much easier to allocate more budget/time to other things.  I think we're both in agreement that graphics aren't as important to us as gameplay & story is right?  I admit that companies have their priorities in the wrong places a lot of the time when it comes to budget, but unfortunately they're just doing what the sales figures tell them to/what poses the least risk.

Regarding the music point, if you have too much melody going on in a heavily textured piece it's going to sound overwhelming and possibly even be impossible to follow.  All this happening at the same time leads to problems, that's why pacing and variation is key.  The good composers balance texture and melody well, having some tracks for the purpose of atmosphere and some for the purpose of story/action scenes.  The expert ones manage to do this within the same tracks, never does it happen at the same time though.  It get's real messy real quick then.