are older RM2k3 games illegal

[Oddball]

Just wondering if games made in RPG maker 2003 before it was legal in english are legal to download. I think i already know the awnser (No), just want to be certain

 

[Felix Trapper]

Yes, they are. Even if you could download them and pretend they were made with the legal version, 99.9% of RM2K3 games feature copyrighted/illegal music and graphics, usually ripped from SNES era RPGs.

 

[Oddball]

I was asking if they were legal to download, not illegal. but we basicly said the same thing. Only you brought up a point i didn't think about

Are games made with legal material legal? Again, I think the awnser is no, but just want to be sure

 

[Zeriab]

I'm sure you can find many of legit old Japanese RM2k3 games.

As for English games? Possibly, but probably not.

 

[Jaymonius]

Ohhhh yeah, good luck finding those rm2k3 games of the old days that didn't use rips. I'm no exception to that rule, because I made games with rips. I'm growing out of the phase though. But hey, it was well worth all that practice... ; <_<; Yeeeahhhh... if I ever go back to 2k3, I'll be using resources that aren't rips. I've long since accepted that.

 

[Zeriab]

I think it was Archeia who once detailed the requirements for English games. You see, to legally own the engine (only Japanese) you had to buy it in Japan, either personally or through friends or something.

With the Japanese version you would then have to create your English game, and without rips and etc.

Yeah...

P.s. please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Milena]

So what if an English guy gets the Japanese version and works on it and release it? Will it be considered an illegal version? Same goes with someone who buys an original Japanese RPG Maker VX Ace and posts a Japanese script here, or a Japanese material, will he / she be allowed to do so? I think they are quickly banned here though. 

As for the question on the post, I think they are legal, if they were made in the original Japanese version. Actually they are legal, just because it isn't in English that means its illegal.

 

[_Shadow_]

So what if an English guy gets the Japanese version and works on it and release it? Will it be considered an illegal version? Same goes with someone who buys an original Japanese RPG Maker VX Ace and posts a Japanese script here, or a Japanese material, will he / she be allowed to do so? I think they are quickly banned here though. 

As for the question on the post, I think they are legal, if they were made in the original Japanese version. Actually they are legal, just because it isn't in English that means its illegal.

Moderators ask before shooting.

They might ask for proof that you got japanese version (probably cases like being a Japanese who is at a European College for instance). If so, the legit owner can prove ownership of a maker, as easy as an owner of the translated version.

On the other hand, using the illegal version of RPG maker 2003 or 2000 or XP or VX or VX Ace or WHATEVER, makes your produced game illegal, even if you use no rips. Using pirated software to make something, is doing an illegal act, thus producing something through an illegal act is illegal too.

There COULD be some legal games, but who knows?

 

[Oddball]

@dreadshadow: thank you for answering my question

Downloading these games seems ambiguous to me now, sense you don't really know what's legal and what's not. There's really no way of knowing unless the English version watermarks there games or the game is in Japanese, right?

 

[_Shadow_]

@dreadshadow: thank you for answering my question

Downloading these games seems ambiguous to me now, sense you don't really know what's legal and what's not. There's really no way of knowing unless the English version watermarks there games or the game is in Japanese, right?

RPG Maker Developers DO have ways to know.

Of course they don't share how THEY can tell.

I know because I asked the same question fro VX Ace in the past.

For obvious reasons they dodn't shared much about it.

In other words, building a game with an illegal VX Ace is easy to be detected by Enterbrain.

Hard for me though.

Why asking such a thing anyway? 

 

[amerk]

One thing I think people kind of miss is that this is an English speaking site that supports the legal English versions of the maker. So even if you did purchase a legal Japanese version of 95, 2K or 2K Value, they're not supported here on this site, which also means any games made with the Japanese versions (even legally) wouldn't be allowed here until a time in which legal English versions were released.

It seems that only games made with the legal English version of 2K3 are allowed here, though, which can be a tad confusing - after all, weren't games made with the legal purchased Japanese version of Ace allowed at one time? Or was that only until the English version was released? If you can upload games from a legal Japanese version of Ace, why can't you for a legal Japanese version of 2K3?

Finally, downloading an available game on any of the RM sites falls in a gray area. RMN has tons of 2K and 2K3 games made off the illegal makers, many of which use custom made art and music. It's mostly about the fact the developers used illegal means to make the game more so than somebody actually playing it. RMW has decided not to support games made off illegal versions of the maker, but highly doubtful they're going to stop you from downloading those games on other sites.

 

[TygerBurnz]

One thing I think people kind of miss is that this is an English speaking site that supports the legal English versions of the maker. So even if you did purchase a legal Japanese version of 95, 2K or 2K Value, they're not supported here on this site, which also means any games made with the Japanese versions (even legally) wouldn't be allowed here until a time in which legal English versions were released.

It seems that only games made with the legal English version of 2K3 are allowed here, though, which can be a tad confusing - after all, weren't games made with the legal purchased Japanese version of Ace allowed at one time? Or was that only until the English version was released? If you can upload games from a legal Japanese version of Ace, why can't you for a legal Japanese version of 2K3?

Finally, downloading an available game on any of the RM sites falls in a gray area. RMN has tons of 2K and 2K3 games made off the illegal makers, many of which use custom made art and music. It's mostly about the fact the developers used illegal means to make the game more so than somebody actually playing it. RMW has decided not to support games made off illegal versions of the maker, but highly doubtful they're going to stop you from downloading those games on other sites.

IN fact Archeia said specificlaly they're not in the business of policing other sites. 

 

[Andar]

So what if an English guy gets the Japanese version and works on it and release it? Will it be considered an illegal version? Same goes with someone who buys an original Japanese RPG Maker VX Ace and posts a Japanese script here, or a Japanese material, will he / she be allowed to do so? I think they are quickly banned here though. 

As for the question on the post, I think they are legal, if they were made in the original Japanese version. Actually they are legal, just because it isn't in English that means its illegal.

As said before, if we suspect someone to use pirated software, we ask for proof of purchase before banning - and if you ever read the text in the pirat-macro (which is visible in those posts), then you'll know that the person can get unbanned again as soon as we get that proof of purchase (yes, even if the software is purchased only after the ban).

Back to the original question:

That is actually a two-part question and answer, because there are two different reasons why a program can be illegal:

1) use of illegal resources

2) use of illegal editor

If a game uses ripped resources (and unfortunately someone using a pirated engine often doesn't care where the pictures come from), then that game is and always will be illegal (getting a licence for old ripped resources after using them is almost impossible).

If it is because of a pirated engine version...

Let's just say that if you proof that you purchased the engine now, I really doubt that anyone will take the work to check and proof whether you worked on that game before purchasing the legal version or not, especially in the case of RM2K3 as that is extremely old software...

EDIT:

And yes, there are ways to check such things, but you won't ever find a post here that tells you how we do that - that would be stupid from us, don't you agree?

 

[_Shadow_]

EDIT:

And yes, there are ways to check such things, but you won't ever find a post here that tells you how we do that - that would be stupid from us, don't you agree?

Of course.

As I said before in this thread I already had that conversation, being converned about how can I know if a game is legal on VX Ace or any other maker, so I woldn't post a thread like "Hey people i played a great game" and get banned because of it. Along with what you already stated here, you told me that you all got common sense, something I must aggree with, since I have seen rational and reasonable conversations on such topics being allowed (until they turn bad I suppose). 

 

[Marston]

Of course.

As I said before in this thread I already had that conversation, being converned about how can I know if a game is legal on VX Ace or any other maker, so I woldn't post a thread like "Hey people i played a great game" and get banned because of it. Along with what you already stated here, you told me that you all got common sense, something I must aggree with, since I have seen rational and reasonable conversations on such topics being allowed (until they turn bad I suppose). 

I am pretty sure no one would get banned for playing a RPG Maker game that was created with the illegal engine or saying he played XYZ (which was made using RPG Maker 2k(3) before it became available). But you won't be allowed to link the game here or present it. But getting banned for just playing a game you found on the internet? Seriously?

 

[_Shadow_]

I am pretty sure no one would get banned for playing a RPG Maker game that was created with the illegal engine or saying he played XYZ (which was made using RPG Maker 2k(3) before it became available). But you won't be allowed to link the game here or present it. But getting banned for just playing a game you found on the internet? Seriously?

I was once concerned about a basic rule of the forum. Do not promote illegal stuff in general. Saying I played and enjoyed a game that used rips for example could be considered promoting such acts. I wasn't sure and asked that long ago. There is no reason continuing this conversation as it is already solved for me, I just mentioned that for the OP.

 

[JosephSeraph]

But the thing is, those games not only are a piece of art, and as art should abide by the general consensus that they should be considered free of that stigma since, well, art is art, but actually deeming them illegal would be a sacrilege and extreme ungratefulness for were it not for them this site wouldn't even exist. I mean, it was them who generated interest for RPG maker in the west, and this is not only the naked truth, but undeniable. If piracy hadn't existed, nobody would really have even bothered to translate rmxp, would they? We've always had a thriving community, its just that in its origin it was sadly based on unknown little hacks of an unknown little japan-only engine. Now things have grown, but there's no point in denying that honour -- much less stripping those games of their worth. Many of them had been worked on for over 10 years, ripped resources or not, illegal engine or not, they come from an era where that was acceptable, where they were a bunch of little teenage twerp geniouses that invented custom evented battle systems and menu systems that relied on complex equations and large amounts of pictures on screen, done on their free time for pure passion.

I'm sorry, you might get angry at me but you know I've got a point! Even if you do prohibit these games being shown / talked about here, at least let's do it in a silent respect for the era that provided us with what we have. Hell, I own my cambridge certificates to RPG Maker! I'd never have learnt English if RPG maker hadn't been hacked to begin with! That was 10 years ago times have changed, but let's not forget that...

And um, sorry if I'm being kind of counter-productive or even offensive about that ok? I don't really mean bad it's just that I get a little sensitive when it comes to that, that's all >___< um, sorry for bothering >A> b-but yeah >A>;

 

[Sharm]

Okay, gotta get this off my chest.  Some of this isn't a direct reaction to stuff said here but an attitude I've been seeing in more than one place.
 
Piracy is not the reason why this site exists.  It is not the reason why a translation exists.  From what I understand (could be wrong, if so I apologize), piracy is the reason getting an officially translated engine took so long, because Enterbrain saw people stealing it and thought that we were being disrespectful and wouldn't appreciate or buy an officially released engine.  It took a lot of begging from people who understood this culture better for them to give us a legitimately translated engine, and they were very unsure about doing it.  This community as it exists now, one that doesn't support rips or stolen engines, is the reason why we have this 2k3 version of the engine.  We've basically proven ourselves.
 
Yes, the illegal version got a lot of people interested in RM.  I'm pretty sure it got a lot of people disinterested in it too, like myself.  It's my personal opinion that a community based around the legal version wouldn't have been any less, just different.  Kind of like how this community is different from what came before.  It's not a different time, there are still communities built around ripped graphics and engines.
 
The whole argument is moot anyway.  Enterbrain and Degica aren't suddenly changing how they view or interact with pirated version of the software, they aren't changing how they deal with the games made with it either.  Degica knows that this is an old engine with a well established way of doing things.  They aren't going to be ridiculous and heavy handed about anything.  I am seeing a lot of people getting very upset with them as if they are though, getting all offended before anyone has done anything to offend.
 
We've been asked a lot of questions about the legality of things.  That's a hard line, one not drawn by Degica or Enterbrain, but by the way the EULA has been written and by the existing laws.  I mean, yeah, the older stuff is illegal, that's fact.  But just because it is doesn't mean that we're all suddenly judging you or something.  It just means it's illegal.  Like it has always been.  But that doesn't mean either of the companies are going to care at all that you've got a bunch of games on your computer made with the illegal version.  Why would they?  It also doesn't mean that Degica and Enterbrain are suddenly an uncaring inflexible bunch who hate us and wants to punish us for past sins.  We only have this version of the engine because they listened to us and because we matter to them.  They aren't unreasonable.  Let's please not be unreasonable to them and make them change their minds by demanding a bunch of stuff as if we're owed for some bizarre reason.  Ask nicely and be okay with the answer.  No matter what we've done to it, the engine still belongs to them.  It's not unreasonable or unfair of them to make decisions about it.

 

[JosephSeraph]

Nonono that's not what I mean, RMW is awesome in that regard! I think we're definitely in a new era thanks to the new happenings of the past 4 or so years, and RMW is the proof of that! Piracy is terrible, and so are rips, and I am absolutely shaming people that still hold that as their standards, people that want to shove their own ripped games down our throats in this day and age in utter disrespect to the EULA and standarts and even morality because yeah, it's obviously immoral (although morality is relative) and a lack of consciousness to use rips -- and uncredited resources -- anyway I'm really happy with the current standards of the RM scene, set by the stronger presence of the representatives of RPG Maker. It's awesome. Communities are much healthier now. Artists grow, people use their work (like me! people can use MY stuff instead of ripping games and ignoring me and my artist friends!) people release games that are much closer than what's in their mind, they're much more open and overall awesome. The community has only improved and I'm deeply thankful for that.

That being said I'm also extremely happy with the coming of rm2k3, which was amazing and an act of a lot of effort by the translators, I'm sure bringing it here wasn't easy, it was simply something amazing. Still, I think that we should really draw a line and accept the "2k/2k3 classics" because well, they created a lot of things, the scripts that were created for xp were interpretations of evented systems that were made in the pirated versions of 2k/3! And it all evolved to RGSS3 to the point it's just so far to what it once was but it doesn't change the fact that that's where it all started! So even if we don't really allow these to be spoken about in here, idk, having a feeling of respect for them is something I believe is nice. I mean sure they're illegal and all in a way, but uhm yeah... It's a rather polemic topic and I'd rather refrain from speaking on it which I shouldn't and I regret a little (especially because it's so easy for people to get what I say the wrong way) but yeah.

Piracy nowdays is unnacceptable. But it's a fact that it once was the only option, and burying these games and erasing the traces of their existance doesn't sound like something respectful (though I did sound pretentious the way I've put it on the other post) but then again I don't really know about much of legalities and I don't want to contest anything, so I just voiced my opinion once and I'm hopefully not coming back to this subject. I'm sorry for pestering you guys with this kind of anti-productive speech and kind of going against the site's standards/opinion in a way, but it's just how I feel. I do think RMW is an awesome site. and that's it have a good day you all see you in the resource forum HAHAH XD *poof*

 

[Sharm]

I think acknowledging where we came from and not trying to hide or dismiss it is the right thing to do.  I just don't think we should glorify it, that's all.  Don't worry, your attitude isn't against the site's policy or anything, most of the people running this place are people who started in the days when the only option was the illegal translation.