are older RM2k3 games illegal

[Lunarea]

Just to give you all an official answer.

Yes, games made with the old version of RM2K3 are illegal, and will not be allowed to be promoted or discussed on the forums.

However, there are options for users who have an old project and have bought the official RM2K3 version. You can transfer your project over to the official version -- I am told that this works for the majority of users. And in the rare cases it doesn't, you can contact us and obtain special permission to share your project.

We are very much aware of the history of RM2K3 and the many projects created with the old version. We're not trying to dismiss them or say they don't count. But what we want to focus on - and what we're the most excited about - is seeing what amazing things are created with the official version of the program. We want to see how well things can flourish with official support, product updates and new content such as supported resource packs. We want to see opportunities like being able to make commercial games come true for developers. And - most importantly - we want to give you a place where you can share all of this with us.

We are still working out some of the concerns raised by users (such as questions answered with the patch EULA), so please bear with us if we don't get to answering your question immediately. We will post as soon as we possibly can.

 

[JosephSeraph]

<3 <3 <3 <3 *sends a gazillion hearts*

edit: i honestly teared up a bit but i do that like 5 times a day

 

[Ralpf]

Just to give you all an official answer.

Yes, games made with the old version of RM2K3 are illegal, and will not be allowed to be promoted or discussed on the forums.

However, there are options for users who have an old project and have bought the official RM2K3 version. You can transfer your project over to the official version -- I am told that this works for the majority of users. And in the rare cases it doesn't, you can contact us and obtain special permission to share your project.

We are very much aware of the history of RM2K3 and the many projects created with the old version. We're not trying to dismiss them or say they don't count. But what we want to focus on - and what we're the most excited about - is seeing what amazing things are created with the official version of the program. We want to see how well things can flourish with official support, product updates and new content such as supported resource packs. We want to see opportunities like being able to make commercial games come true for developers. And - most importantly - we want to give you a place where you can share all of this with us.

We are still working out some of the concerns raised by users (such as questions answered with the patch EULA), so please bear with us if we don't get to answering your question immediately. We will post as soon as we possibly can.

Seems very reasonable, I was hoping the answer would be something like that. I have never used RM2K3, and am 99% sure I haven't played anything made with it, but for those that have that seems the right move.

 

[Zak]

Okay, gotta get this off my chest.  Some of this isn't a direct reaction to stuff said here but an attitude I've been seeing in more than one place.

Piracy is not the reason why this site exists.  It is not the reason why a translation exists.  From what I understand (could be wrong, if so I apologize), piracy is the reason getting an officially translated engine took so long, because Enterbrain saw people stealing it and thought that we were being disrespectful and wouldn't appreciate or buy an officially released engine.  It took a lot of begging from people who understood this culture better for them to give us a legitimately translated engine, and they were very unsure about doing it.  This community as it exists now, one that doesn't support rips or stolen engines, is the reason why we have this 2k3 version of the engine.  We've basically proven ourselves.

Actually you're quite right. Enterbrain was furious about it and sent to a lot of adhortatory letters to many websites in the old days. I still remember their official survey what we foreigners think about the engine and if we actually knew that we had to pay for this software.

 

[Oddball]

@dreadshadow: I was curious if the old games could be downloaded. I also wanted to start a discussion. and make sure this question get's awnsered for anyone in the future who has the same question(s)

I fished up a lot more information then i originally expected it looks like. like trying to pull one hanger out of a cluttered box of hangers and a whole bunch being attached together and that one

 

[Traverse]

The thing about games made using the "older" version of the engine is that even if all the of graphical and musical resources are original, the underlying code in the data files (e.g. the map files and the database) and the executable would still belong to ASCII/Enterbrain, which the original creator wouldn't have been licensed to use/copy if they'd been using an illegal version of the engine. Any of the code in those games would be illegally copied, which would in turn make the hosting and downloading of those games copyright infringement too, at least to my knowledge. You could try to argue that the code is a relatively small part of the whole game, but I'm not sure many would agree given that the game wouldn't run at all if you took out the copyrighted code.

I'd be inclined to believed that containing ripped resources would only be the figurative blood on the smoking gun, in this case.

As always, I am not a lawyer nor licensed to give legal advice.

 

[TygerBurnz]

The thing about games made using the "older" version of the engine is that even if all the of graphical and musical resources are original, the underlying code in the data files (e.g. the map files and the database) and the executable would still belong to ASCII/Enterbrain, which the original creator wouldn't have been licensed to use/copy if they'd been using an illegal version of the engine. Any of the code in those games would be illegally copied, which would in turn make the hosting and downloading of those games copyright infringement too, at least to my knowledge. You could try to argue that the code is a relatively small part of the whole game, but I'm not sure many would agree given that the game wouldn't run at all if you took out the copyrighted code.

I'd be inclined to believed that containing ripped resources would only be the figurative blood on the smoking gun, in this case.

As always, I am not a lawyer nor licensed to give legal advice.

Which is why, in general we won't host such games here,  but there are plenty of other places they can be found if you know where to look.

 

[Erika Fuzzbottom]

Yes, they are. Even if you could download them and pretend they were made with the legal version, 99.9% of RM2K3 games feature copyrighted/illegal music and graphics, usually ripped from SNES era RPGs.

How is this different than the RMVX Ace game I'm playing right now that uses music from Tales of Vesperia?  Or the VX game I played that used music from Metal Gear Solid? =P

I'm actually under the impression that the majority of PC RPGM games out there use music from other works, regardless of whether the Maker itself is legit.

Anyway, to simplify the answer to the OP a little, games made with the illegal 2k3 won't even work without also using the illegal RTP.

 

[Tuomo L]

Just to give you all an official answer.

Yes, games made with the old version of RM2K3 are illegal, and will not be allowed to be promoted or discussed on the forums.

However, there are options for users who have an old project and have bought the official RM2K3 version. You can transfer your project over to the official version -- I am told that this works for the majority of users. And in the rare cases it doesn't, you can contact us and obtain special permission to share your project.

We are very much aware of the history of RM2K3 and the many projects created with the old version. We're not trying to dismiss them or say they don't count. But what we want to focus on - and what we're the most excited about - is seeing what amazing things are created with the official version of the program. We want to see how well things can flourish with official support, product updates and new content such as supported resource packs. We want to see opportunities like being able to make commercial games come true for developers. And - most importantly - we want to give you a place where you can share all of this with us.

We are still working out some of the concerns raised by users (such as questions answered with the patch EULA), so please bear with us if we don't get to answering your question immediately. We will post as soon as we possibly can.

I have a question, how do I know which of the resources that have been created for RPG Maker 2003 wouldn't be breaching EULA aside the RTP ones? I mean, there were a lot of rips but also a lot of resources that had been done, including music and graphics by sites that no longer even exist and by creators who I don't think have had anything to do with RPG Maker in years. For example, I have this sideview battler of the green dragon guy from RTP  (Monster 2-6 to be precise) but not sure about its terms or even who made it. (There were no credits included anywhere on it and I can't for life of me remember where I got it from)

 

[bgillisp]

How is this different than the RMVX Ace game I'm playing right now that uses music from Tales of Vesperia?  Or the VX game I played that used music from Metal Gear Solid? =P

Actually, those are both illegal too (as far as I know). . Sorry. Just because someone else does it doesn't make it legal.

I have a question, how do I know which of the resources that have been created for RPG Maker 2003 wouldn't be breaching EULA aside the RTP ones? I mean, there were a lot of rips but also a lot of resources that had been done, including music and graphics by sites that no longer even exist and by creators who I don't think have had anything to do with RPG Maker in years. For example, I have this sideview battler of the green dragon guy from RTP  (Monster 2-6 to be precise) but not sure about its terms or even who made it. (There were no credits included anywhere on it and I can't for life of me remember where I got it from)

I'd probably suggest (and I hate to say it), but just don't use it. Copyright law is very sticky, and if you use an item with no terms you can get sued later on and it can be expensive. I'd say keep searching, or hire an artist to make you a legal version.

I know that's probably not the answer you wanted, and I recall having to toss out *many* resources that I wanted to use but couldn't when I started my game, but eventually I finally got legal versions that worked (or hired someone to make the legal version).

 

[Erika Fuzzbottom]

Actually, those are both illegal too (as far as I know). . Sorry. Just because someone else does it doesn't make it legal.

Oh, I know.  I was just pointing out how silly it is to point at old 2k3 games specifically and be all "those use copywrited music, ooooooh", when it occurs across all PC RPGMs.

 

[XPKobold]

@Draygone: You do have a point but there is one issue here if anyone is selling their game with 2k3 and having copyright stuff. Though there's one other issues considering if i recall Reshacker could replace the default glyphs with custom ones. Quite a few i've noticed in games use the SNES FF icons for equipment which is a whole other can of worms.

 

[orochii]

21 matches for the word "legal" just in this page...

---

Only thing I'm concerned about RM2k3, is how the product will be updated. I read somewhere that the source code is lost. I know Cherry is kind of a genius, but... Even he has a limit at how much he can do without the source.

As for playing illegal games... dammit. I just want to mention the good source of inspiration they can be. </3

 

[Erika Fuzzbottom]

The tool was bug-fixed and improved during localization, and the first update already happened, so I'm assuming they have the source code.

See: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sXlXZIXdjxVq5gh_lPFuFLMbMRzZe4BKPpRI13ZD2Qc/edit

 

[Clord]

I'm going by what Lunarea said. I fail to see why she wouldn't be right about this considering her position in Degica.

 

[Oddball]

I'm sure legal RM2k3 resources will be posted on this site and in resource packs that are equally awesome as any created in the past. If your worried about getting legal RM resources, just be patient. They will come  

 

[Matombo]

Just to give you all an official answer.

Yes, games made with the old version of RM2K3 are illegal, and will not be allowed to be promoted or discussed on the forums.

However, there are options for users who have an old project and have bought the official RM2K3 version. You can transfer your project over to the official version -- I am told that this works for the majority of users. And in the rare cases it doesn't, you can contact us and obtain special permission to share your project.

We are very much aware of the history of RM2K3 and the many projects created with the old version. We're not trying to dismiss them or say they don't count. But what we want to focus on - and what we're the most excited about - is seeing what amazing things are created with the official version of the program. We want to see how well things can flourish with official support, product updates and new content such as supported resource packs. We want to see opportunities like being able to make commercial games come true for developers. And - most importantly - we want to give you a place where you can share all of this with us.

We are still working out some of the concerns raised by users (such as questions answered with the patch EULA), so please bear with us if we don't get to answering your question immediately. We will post as soon as we possibly can.

Absolution for just 20 bucks

BTT to the initial question: Wasn't it about the player who downloads the game and not about the creator?

Well is there a way you can know bevorhand of downloading if he used the illigal version, got the legal japanese version imported (maybe he has a friend from japan visiting him), or has bought the new legal version and portet his game?

The 2nd part about the cracked ressources, before downloading you wont the screnshots of every map of the game and wont hear the music so even if you know every 16 bit nes game you can't say bevorehand if the creator used riped stuff.

So i would not say that it's the issue of the player, just assume the good faith of the creator and you can download the game (you can't be blamed for not knowing that someone else, possible half the earthball away, broke the law).

At least if it's not obviously, like in the desciption of the game "Hey look at my cool FF fangame with 100% original graphics!"

And since every edit of the dll's or exe's is forbidden i can think of a pretty easy way to check if it was made with a offical copy (at least for some cases)

 

[amerk]

I suppose you could look at it this way.

If somebody takes and gives you a digital photograph from a stolen digital camera, is the photograph illegal? It was obtained through an illegally obtained device, but it would be absurd to suddenly rip up and throw out the photograph for that reason.

I'm not about to discredit and toss out the buttload of 2K3 games I've collected and played throughout the years because the software suddenly becomes legal. But I also understand the box that RMW could potentially open if they (being the official site and the closest we can get to E were to suddenly allow all games (even those made from illegally obtained software) to be hosted here. Years of gaining EB's respect and support for a market outside of Japan could easily be lost.

I would, of course, encourage many of those games to be remade into the legal version of the product.

 

[Andar]

The photograph and camera isn't entirely fitting as a comparison, because the photo won't contain part of the camere - but the game would contain the RTP.


However, as said by Lunarea this is about support. You only need support on unfinished or damaged games. If the game creator want to get support, he has to buy the program - and now he can.


If an old download has been damaged and doesn't work anymore, then we can't do anything about it anyway, it would need a new export from the project file.