Are Scripts/Plugins sign of quality?

[Irineu]

Greetings!
Before starting this topic I will give some addendums:

Spoiler

-In this thread I will be referring to the RPG Maker and its projects, but it does not mean that it can not give examples of other engines.
-You who are reading, can opine, notwithstanding you know absolutely nothing of scripts and plugins.
-The thread will be 70% based on my opinion. So do not take everything that has been said here as truth.
- The purpose of this thread is not to divulge or criticize something, but to know other people's point of view.

Three years ago, the time that I started to get interested in the RPG Maker engine, I started working on a project (quite amateur by the way). As I was a beginner, I had several doubts in the middle of the project ... That's when I met the brazillian channel "Drak Tutorials" that had a serie of reviews of projects of subscribeds. The interesting thing about this serie is that most of the games what appeared were bad or mediocre, I noticed that most of these projects did not used script or plugin. I thought, "If the projects used a script or plugin, they would have a higher quality." A while later I remembered that thought and wondered if I was right or wrong in what I said...

Many who have read so far will answer something like: "An RPG Maker game does not need scripts or plugins to be good if it has a good plot." This starts a "paradox" because other people would say something like: "A game does not need a good story if it has good gameplay." That is the case that the phrase "Nothing is perfect" fits very well. Even if we catch a game with storyline, gameplay, soundtrack and etc. at the maximum level, there will always be a flaw that would compromise your end result.

Going back to the Script/Plugins case, there is a big meme in the Brazil RPG Maker Community that matches the thread question:

Spoiler

"Os 6 elementos Total RPG" was a game created in RPG Maker VX Ace that used over 9 thousand scripts, but even having so many scripts it did not escape from being a bad game. Malformed language, mis-matched soundtrack, bugs and etc...
Here's a question for you to think: would the game continue with the same quality without the scripts?

Thank you and good luck to all!

 

[LTN Games]

A good RPG needs both, good gameplay and a good story. Plugins don't necessarily provide you the good gameplay though, they provide you customizations that would otherwise be hard to accomplish or not be accomplished at all without them. So it has nothing to do with scripts or plugins, they're just there so you can customize the engine, a good story complements the mechanics and vice versa, if you want to make a good game, focus on all aspect of your game and make sure everything makes sense and is logically placed.

 

[TheoAllen]

Here's a question for you to think: would the game continue with the same quality without the scripts?

Without scripts, the game will not run.

---------------
Alright, a little bit serious answer.
As someone who has dug deep into the game's code, I think the question is a bit silly.

The general answer will be "no". Of course, if you just use the default scripts without alteration, everyone can also have it. Scripts/plugins are customization that will make your game more unique (same can be said for custom resources). But uniqueness will not automatically make your game good. You need to have a strong fundamental in it. If your only reason is "I want to be different" and nothing else, it will not matter much. You have to think why you want to put them in your game.

I code my game because I can, and I want this and that features in my game.

 

[lianderson]

If someone didn't use their time for scripts or coding, it's safe to assume they didn't use their time for other things.

 

[shockra]

The scripts and plugins alone don't make a game good. It's about how they're used. In your example, the game used 9000+ scripts, but was still bad. In my opinion, a skilled game developer will decide what he or she wants in the game, then use the scripts and plugins that make that possible, or even make his or her own if needed.

My guess is in the example, the developer mostly winged it, and that's why it turned out bad. Even with the right scripts and plugins, developers need to make sure everything is correct. Grammar issues, bugs, bad sound, bad graphics...Any one of these things can destroy an otherwise good game. Good games don't just get built overnight. They take time.

 

[dulsi]

Most games are going to be bad. Same is true for all games not just rpg maker games. The rpg maker system has enough options I believe you can make good games without plugins. Most experienced game makers are probably going to use plugins because they can and it can improve the experience. But I suspect if you look at a large cross section of games with plugins most of those are probably still bad. (Although maybe not. Maybe people who make bad game with plugins just don't complete their games while those who stay with the core engine release something quicker.)

 

[Poryg]

In times of RPG maker 2000 and 2003 we had no scripts and no plugins. And god, some great games were made in them!
It's not the scripts nor plugins that make a game good.
It's the effort.
And that's everywhere. You're not good because of a talent. You're good because of the effort you made to enhance your talent. It's always effort, effort and effort. And once more, effort. Oh and don't forget, effort!

And in case you already forgot, effort.
Now, back to business.

Yanfly plugins. Mog plugins. Celianna's tilesets. Avery's resources. Darren Curtis's music. Aekashics's battlers. They all have one in common.
They can help you make your game look more good. But that doesn't mean that if you just plug them in, it will magically work.

Yanfly plugins are overused and I'm honestly sick of Yanfly menus. In fact I just prefer the RTP menu over Yanfly menu.
Mog plugins are what is generally considered top notch in terms of making your game look good. In fact it's sad to see so many people use Mog's particle system... As if it made the game look any nicer.
Aekashics's battlers are incompatible with MV style graphics. They are cartoon style.

And I could continue.
I have listed multiple things... Every one is known in the RPG maker community. But I have put a problem they bring with them.
That's because you can't just say "I'll have this, this and that.". Whatever you implement or use in your game, needs to make sense. If it doesn't have its sensible place in the game, it doesn't fit. You can't have features in the game just because.

 

[OnslaughtSupply]

The only reason you should be using scripts and plugins is when you can't make the engine do what you want it to do. It doesn't make it any better but just gives you more tools to achieve your goal. What you do with that determines if the game is good or bad. So no, plugins and scripts don't inherently make a game better just because they're there.

 

[Irineu]

A good RPG needs both, good gameplay and a good story. Plugins don't necessarily provide you the good gameplay though, they provide you customizations that would otherwise be hard to accomplish or not be accomplished at all without them. So it has nothing to do with scripts or plugins, they're just there so you can customize the engine, a good story complements the mechanics and vice versa, if you want to make a good game, focus on all aspect of your game and make sure everything makes sense and is logically placed.

Yes, the problem is that it's difficult to make a game with a different gameplay/battle system, so many developers exaggerate in the scripts to say "Look, I'm not a beginner developer, I use scripts!".

Without scripts, the game will not run.

---------------
Alright, a little bit serious answer.
As someone who has dug deep into the game's code, I think the question is a bit silly.

The general answer will be "no". Of course, if you just use the default scripts without alteration, everyone can also have it. Scripts/plugins are customization that will make your game more unique (same can be said for custom resources). But uniqueness will not automatically make your game good. You need to have a strong fundamental in it. If your only reason is "I want to be different" and nothing else, it will not matter much. You have to think why you want to put them in your game.

I code my game because I can, and I want this and that features in my game.

I see the Scripts / Plugins as a way to help developers who are not very good with event. If you stop to parse, most of the things that are done with scripts can be done with events (though it's a thousand times more tiring).

If someone didn't use their time for scripts or coding, it's safe to assume they didn't use their time for other things.

I do not know if I understanded what you mean, but if a person is not good with scripting or coding, it does not mean that they do not spend their time working on other things. There are many people in the RPG Maker Community who do not understand much of this sort of thing, but they are great mapping designers and system creators by event.

The scripts and plugins alone don't make a game good. It's about how they're used. In your example, the game used 9000+ scripts, but was still bad. In my opinion, a skilled game developer will decide what he or she wants in the game, then use the scripts and plugins that make that possible, or even make his or her own if needed.

My guess is in the example, the developer mostly winged it, and that's why it turned out bad. Even with the right scripts and plugins, developers need to make sure everything is correct. Grammar issues, bugs, bad sound, bad graphics...Any one of these things can destroy an otherwise good game. Good games don't just get built overnight. They take time.

Exactly, a good developer knows when he is using scripts in excess. There is an analogy to describe this dilemma ... Imagine that you are doing your homework and make a 10/10 cover page with glitter and others things, but the homework has just 1 line ... This homework remains bad, even with an excellent cover page.

Most games are going to be bad. Same is true for all games not just rpg maker games. The rpg maker system has enough options I believe you can make good games without plugins. Most experienced game makers are probably going to use plugins because they can and it can improve the experience. But I suspect if you look at a large cross section of games with plugins most of those are probably still bad. (Although maybe not. Maybe people who make bad game with plugins just don't complete their games while those who stay with the core engine release something quicker.)

Here in Brazil, RPG Maker games have always been known to be bad-made and funny. The reason for this is that most developers are not developers, but teenagers who use the tool as a form of leisure that do not know that there are scripts, tilesets on the internet and other things. In my view, exaggerating scripts and avoiding RTP content was a way to escape this preconception, as players end up paying so too much attention to the layout that they do not even realize the game is bad.

In times of RPG maker 2000 and 2003 we had no scripts and no plugins. And god, some great games were made in them!
It's not the scripts nor plugins that make a game good.
It's the effort.
And that's everywhere. You're not good because of a talent. You're good because of the effort you made to enhance your talent. It's always effort, effort and effort. And once more, effort. Oh and don't forget, effort!

And in case you already forgot, effort.
Now, back to business.

Yanfly plugins. Mog plugins. Celianna's tilesets. Avery's resources. Darren Curtis's music. Aekashics's battlers. They all have one in common.
They can help you make your game look more good. But that doesn't mean that if you just plug them in, it will magically work.

Yanfly plugins are overused and I'm honestly sick of Yanfly menus. In fact I just prefer the RTP menu over Yanfly menu.
Mog plugins are what is generally considered top notch in terms of making your game look good. In fact it's sad to see so many people use Mog's particle system... As if it made the game look any nicer.
Aekashics's battlers are incompatible with MV style graphics. They are cartoon style.

And I could continue.
I have listed multiple things... Every one is known in the RPG maker community. But I have put a problem they bring with them.
That's because you can't just say "I'll have this, this and that.". Whatever you implement or use in your game, needs to make sense. If it doesn't have its sensible place in the game, it doesn't fit. You can't have features in the game just because.

In this part, you are right. The makers use both scripts/plugins and tilesets of known people that make it more attractive to play a game that uses only RTP. It was for this reason that I moved away from the RPG Maker community for a while, had so many games polluted of complement that I did not find a game in the classic style.

The only reason you should be using scripts and plugins is when you can't make the engine do what you want it to do. It doesn't make it any better but just gives you more tools to achieve your goal. What you do with that determines if the game is good or bad. So no, plugins and scripts don't inherently make a game better just because they're there.

Scripts serve to make systems that events can not do or make the game look better. Developers who use scripts to not look like beginning developers are on the wrong way.

 

[Andar]

One of the key sentences I have about this (as I already mentioned elsewhere including my starting point tutorial) is:
"A titanic list of features makes sure your game will go Titanic (to the bottom of the ocean)".

Numbers never matter - it's how good everything fits together that matters.
As that there are cases where scripts are absolutely neccessary - and there are cases where you shouldn't use them.
For example if you want to turn your game into an action-RPG, then it's almost impossible to do in quality without using an ABS script - yes, it can be done by eventing, but your options with events are limited (especially as to what skills to have effects on the map).
On the other hand (and as the Ace sample game Crysalis prooves) there is absolutely no need for any script if you want to make a JRPG.

So make your game and add scripts where neccessary, but don't go through the script lists just to add something that "sounds cool".
If it doesn't fit with your game idea it has no value to be included and will only drop the value of your game by diluting it's core mechanic.

But if your game needs a script or plugin because of neccessary changes to the default gameplay, then don't be afraid to include them.

 

[trouble time]

Talent and hardwork make a game good. Properly managed talent and hard work, scripts and art representing someone elses talent that you need to learn to direct as a designer. Even the most talented artist's work can be wasted. And even if you can script anything you need to know what scriots will make your game better. Story and writing are also pretty important, but and both also need proper direction.

 

[lianderson]

I do not know if I understanded what you mean, but if a person is not good with scripting or coding, it does not mean that they do not spend their time working on other things. There are many people in the RPG Maker Community who do not understand much of this sort of thing, but they are great mapping designers and system creators by event.

It's extremely easy to put scripts into a scriptless game. If someone is too lazy to at least do that, then their game isn't worth checking out. Anyone who tells you otherwise, are just setting you up for failure.

Good luck on your game.

 

[Andar]

It's extremely easy to put scripts into a scriptless game. If someone is too lazy to at least do that, then their game isn't worth checking out. Anyone who tells you otherwise, are just setting you up for failure..

The problem is not adding scripts (especially not randomly), the problem is selecting scripts that improve the game as opposed to selecting scripts that distract from the game or even destroy it.

You can make a good game without scripts - it's just a lot of work. If you put that same work into selecting scripts correctly, then those scripts will improve the game. If you just add scripts without thinking about the need for them, then you increase the chance of adding the wrong scripts and making your game bad as a result.

 

[lianderson]

I agree, someone putting in scripts for the sake of putting in scripts is a problem. But the opposite is true as well. If someone puts in nothing, or does no coding at all, then that too is a problem.

But just to be clear, complex eventing is technically a form of coding. There are some event systems out there that rival, or even out do, some scripts. So when I say no scripts, I literally mean no scripts, or anything that even resembles one. We're talking barebones with beginner level event complexity. That stuff, has no excuse, especially if someone wants their game to be taken seriously by strangers.

 

[Eschaton]

It has been said that features alone won't make a game good. What matters is how those features compliment one another.

What matters is that those features are fun to interact with and that the game which is made of such features is fun.

However, the more plugins used, the higher the risk of running into bugs, especially if you the developer are depending on plugin creators for features to add to your game. Less is more.

 

[Wavelength]

Good gameplay comes from good design (engaging activities, good balance, interesting choices, and well thought-out systems) and flawless execution (no bugs, good interface, solid technical performance, and smooth feel). Scripts and plugins are ways to implement features or systems in a way that allows a better interface and smoother feel than similar systems implemented through eventing, and some of them also make the implementation a lot quicker and easier for the designer. But they don't create good gameplay in and of themselves.

I don't think they really stand as a sign of quality in and of themselves, although with heavy visual customization, a prospective player might believe they're looking at something special.

 

[Aesica]

Scripts are a resource, just like art, music, sound effects, and writing. Do they make your game "better?" They can, because RPGMaker's defaults are pretty bad and generic, however like anything else, scripts should be used responsibly. Over 9000 scripts (this smells like an exaggeration and/or meme humor) is probably going to cause tremendous conflicts since scripts from too many different authors tend to cause conflicts with each other when they tread on similar grounds. It's just like mixing too many different art styles, or having different people with vastly different writing styles/skill levels write different parts of your game.

Choose scripts/plugins/etc that will improve your game rather than ones where "oh that's cool!"

 

[hiddenone]

I've moved this thread to General Discussion. Please be sure to post your threads in the correct forum next time. Thank you.

As people have said, using scripts (or refusing to use any scripts) doesn't make a game magically better, it all depends on the effort of the developer.

 

[woootbm]

Do they make your game "better?" They can, because RPGMaker's defaults are pretty bad and generic, however like anything else, scripts should be used responsibly.

Yeah, I tried to use as few scripts/plugins as possible, but there's so much crap that the default engine can't do. Like:
- control the camera (without use of convoluted eventing)
- change the max number of party members
- have items/spells that boost elemental damage of a user (this one made me laugh. like, seriously?)
- have DoT's/HoT's that use a damage formula
- just... so many buff and debuff things

So... for me the answer to the question is "yes", heh. Because there's just SO MUCH missing. Scripts/plugins are just a tool in your kit. And it's always better to have the right tool for the job. Like, sure you can hammer a nail into a piece of wood using any heavy object. But it's probably a better idea to use a hammer.