Willibab

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What do you think about them? What are some of your favorite implementations of set bonuses?

I personally love ESO's approach, despite never being able to play that game for long periods of time xD Mixing several sets was a lot of fun and you could make a lot of interesting builds....Until they inevitably nerf them ofc :p
I also loved Diablo 3's insane set bonuses, they were friggin mental, but boy was it fun to use :p

I'm thinking of having it so sets are in 4 pieces. the second bonus is always weaker then the 4th (which is common) so you can choose between having 2 sets of 2 or a full set. I have 6 equipment slots if you count weapons and off-hand items so you could potentially have a full set + a 2 set too. Maybe even rare sets with a 6th bonus.
 

LordOfPotatos

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I've noticed a lot of times set bonuses are so OP that they kinda kill customization, there's no point in theorycrafting your own build if getting a set is just better.
other than that they're super cool collectables even if you don't use them.

I'm a balance junkie so I made the set bonus part of an equip's power budget, so a piece that belongs to a set is inherently weaker than independant equips until you get the set.
then the set's effect makes up for all the missed power and adds a little more.

that way sets are more powerful than a custom build but only if you don't mind the extreme specialization.
 

ZombieKidzRule

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I'm definitely not against the concept. I just think it needs to be carefully balanced with everything else.

Can you complete the game without ever using a set? Does having any particular set make the game too easy?

As a player, I think I would prefer that sets still only give a distinct advantage in a smaller way. Maybe each piece of a set gives a certain % bonus that, taken individually, does not add up to 100%, but having the set finishes the deal. Maybe not even 100%.

But even then, the actual benefit is still not earth shattering in context of other factors.

I think it also depends greatly on how the armor sets fit into the overall game design.

Generally, I don't like things that make me feel pushed in any specific direction. So, if your game has classes that don't depend on armor, as a player, I would probably feel slighted if my preferred class didn't have something comparably as good as armor sets.

If everyone wears armor, then I think I would mostly be concerned about game balance and making sure that any given armor set doesn't make the game too easy.
 

JamieSabriel

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I've noticed a lot of times set bonuses are so OP that they kinda kill customization, there's no point in theorycrafting your own build if getting a set is just better.

I'm definitely not against the concept. I just think it needs to be carefully balanced with everything else.

Can you complete the game without ever using a set? Does having any particular set make the game too easy?
These bits sum up my opinion on how most armor sets are implemented. Generally, I don't like them. It's usually the case that the set pieces without the set are too weak to consider compared to other equips in the same range, until you complete the set and now they're all best-in-slot equips compared to the others in the same range.

I'm not implementing it in the first version of my demo, but my idea for implementing it is both thematic and mechanical - there isn't traditional armor in my game; instead, there are fashion ensembles. Accessories in particular will have some sort of set bonuses with multiple different outfits, since a given accessory can match with a number of things. Louder pieces will match with fewer things.

I don't have it fleshed out mechanically yet, but that's the idea. Pairing Accessory A with Outfit A amplifies some part of Outfit A's stats, or shores up a weakness, and does a slightly different thing for Outfit B, etc.
 

LordOfPotatos

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These bits sum up my opinion on how most armor sets are implemented. Generally, I don't like them. It's usually the case that the set pieces without the set are too weak to consider compared to other equips in the same range, until you complete the set and now they're all best-in-slot equips compared to the others in the same range.
and that's yet another argument for horizontal equipment design supremacy.
 

JamieSabriel

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and that's yet another argument for horizontal equipment design supremacy.
If you ignore the entire rest of my post, sure. I'm not saying it's globally true, I'm saying it's a tool that I feel is often implemented poorly.
 

Cythera

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Oh, I love equip set bonuses. The more complex the better. 2,3,4,5 pieces required for some bonuses. Maybe a weapon needed too? Drawbacks, bonuses, increases stats, decreases traits...
Anything where I can customize my team I love it. I'm the player that will create the weirdest team configs and love every second of it. Sure, I could do things more efficiently if I use the meta, but where's the fun in that!?

I love it too on the dev side! I get to come up with cool names, cool effects, fun quests to put the gear in!
But I do have to say, the balancing can be rough. You don't know what a player will do when you introduce customization like equip sets. And it can be hard to test them and their various combos to see if indeed it is balanced, or if it's too weak/overpowered. Balancing these kinds of things is a task and a half.

Like everything else, you also have to ask if it belongs in your game. If you're making a half hour puzzle game, equip sets are just time put into something the player probably won't even use.

And yes, Diablo 3's set bonuses were amazing. I made a close-combat wizard and loved every single second of it. I don't need a barbarian to tank! I'll tank the boss myself, thanks! :yhappy:
 

Willibab

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and that's yet another argument for horizontal equipment design supremacy.
Interesting because I forgot to mention that I don't have levels or classes in my game. So a horizontal approach is basically what I was thinking (ish). Not that some wont be better then others but not by so much that you can never use the older ones.

As an example, the lowest level set for heavy is Copper Armor, it will have the highest Lightning Resistance in the game. You will have much less Physical resistance ofc but that might not always matter.

I just don't know if i'm gonna have the resistance on the items or in the set bonus yet :p Maybe both so that without the full bonus its not the best but with it, it is.


@Cythera Balancing these kinds of things is a task and a half.

True, but I'm not the type that needs perfect balance anyway :p The op ones can be very difficult to get, so you don't need them to finish the game but might need them for extra bosses (Or at least it helps). It is up to you if you want to grind for them or not.





An example of what im thinking.

Context:
All Light armor has +2 Defense and all Heavy Armor has +4 Defense. In addition, many armors have a hidden -Physical/Magical Resistance to varying degrees. (Might show this in a different way then just text, hoping to get a star rating kind of icon thingy or something).

Next is that I intend for the 3 first items to be much easier to obtain then the Amulet which can be found later on or is more rare. The exact stat amounts may be tweaked ofc but this set obviously focuses on a large mana pool.

[Apprentice Hood] +2 Defense
[Apprentice Robe] +2 Defense / +10 MP
[Apprentice Pants] +2 Defense
[Amulet of Potential] +20 MP

Set: [Apprentice Regalia] Light Armor

Set Bonus 2: +10% MP
Set Bonus 3: +10% MP / You take +10% Magical damage.
Set Bonus 4: You gain Magic(MAT) equal to 20% of your MP.

(No idea how to do the 4 set but there are many who are helpful and good at that stuff here. It can potentially be very powerful if you fully focus on having a large MP pool. I have Prefixes and Suffixes that might increase it further.

I like the idea of sets being good if you focus on a specific niche.
 
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