Art related Discussion/Question

[zaev]

Hello, folks.

First and foremost, allow me to introduce myself so you'll more likely understand by process of thinking.  I have an extensive background in 3d modeling utilizing Maya and ZBrush and have experience with countless game engines.  I am use to a highly detail oriented art direction, so I wanted a challenge by diving into the world of 2D graphics with an engine I'm not completely familiar with directly out of the shoot.

I have already spent several days searching the depths of the internet looking for the answers to my questions, but there's a few that I haven't been able to figured out yet.  Thus, the reason I'm here asking! =)

Most games created using RPG Maker, both hobbyist and commercial, utilize traditional pixel art style graphics without much "high resolution" art fused within it.  It's like playing my favorite SNES games and I absolutely love it.  However, my game idea is a mix between traditional SNES style graphics and more detailed 3-D style graphics, but without it looking as if it was just a screen grab of a model and oddly placed within the world.  I suppose the best example I could provide would be Fallout I and II style graphics, which were originally 3d models scanned into 2d sprite sheets.  (EDIT:  Baldur's Gate also used this art style.)

I'm definitely using parallax mapping techniques, but I'm failing to understand why more developers here don't pursue a more fallout-style art direction (without the isometric view and this may be a bad example).  Is it because it's more difficult/likely to fail or the community frowns upon more of that style of art/graphics?  I likely wouldn't create all my assets 3d then render as 2d, as it would increase the development pipeline further.  Instead, I would utilize a hand painted / painterly style of art, based on crisp edges and well blended palettes.

Here's an example of what I have in mind for part of my parallax background, built on a pixel grid of 32.

​

The image is built using three different layers within photoshop.  First, I created a seamless grass texture and repeated it until I filled up my entire image size of 512x512. (Inside GameMaker, it would be 16x16.. right?).  Next, I created two more seamless textures, dirt and rocks.  Using a custom brush and mask, I created a path that my custom sprite would be able to travel down.

With that in mind, will my understanding of how GameMaker parallax mapping work?  How does the sample look? Will it be pixelated in the game engine? or will it remain the same quality, or become pixelated?

I appreciate your time reading and look forward to hearing the responses.  If this post is in the wrong forum subsection, please feel free to move it.

Thanks!

 

[Venka]

I've been trying to think how to word my response because I'm not trying to come off offensive to anyone =P

I'd say the way you're trying to map isn't more common because not that many people know how to work with graphics on your level. Most will use the RTP graphics or graphics that an artist in the RPG Maker community already made. And most artists that release their work for others to use, they try to make it RTP friendly so that you can use a piece or two and it doesn't stand out like a soar thumb.

There's a few artist that go outside of the RTP, for example:

http://www.rpgmakerweb.com/a/graphics/high-fantasy-resource-bundle-2

that artist has made of ton of realeases so you could make a game using their work and not have to rely on the RTP.

I don't think there's any right or wrong way to make your game.

I haven't noticed in drop in graphic quality. I've played around with parallax making some and my file sizes were getting a bit out of control, so I changed them to jpegs and that seemed to work just fine. You can always make a trial map and play test it to see if the graphics are staying at the quality that you want them.

The only thing I might caution is since this is a 2D engine, you might run into some problems with parts that should appear over the player.

Hoped I was able to answer some things.. I think I've revamped this post about 5 times so it has probably become disjointed somewhat, sorry.

Inside GameMaker, it would be 16x16.. right?

RPGMaker VXAce uses a 32x32 map system if that's what you meant.

 

[zaev]

Hey, Venka.

I appreciate your response and understand completely.  It's not so much that my ideas/methods are frowned upon, just that not many people know how to work with that level of graphic complexity.  Gotcha.

Well, I suppose we'll have to remedy that.  As I continue progress on my project, I suppose I'll have to make some tutorials on content creation.  And, of course, I'll release some of my things into the community to help promote an alternative development path to the RTP.

Unless anyone else has any other comments, I guess this thread can be closed as I'm satisfied with Venka's response.

Thanks again!

 

[Lunarea]

Just to help put things in perspective .... It's not so much that everyone loves the RTP style. It doesn't fit every game style, and it probably wouldn't be the first choice for many people. But it's the style that currently has the most versatility and the most user-created content. It also comes free with the program and requires little to no experience to use. People can practically use it out of the box, which is just not the case with sets that require parallaxing or isometric-view scripts.

So, you're not so much competing against RTP as a style as much as competing against the large quantity and versatility that the style offers. We have a good number of users who use the High Fantasy sets that PVGames produces, but that number would be much lower if there was only one small set in the same style.

If you can provide a lot of resources in a style different from the RTP, you will find people using it. It's just a very gargantuan task when you have to produce not only a complete set of default graphics, but also many add-ons - just to compete with what the RTP has to offer.

 

[hian]

Another issue is consistency.

If you're not going to use rtp graphics, and you want to make a decent length game with diverse settings and characters, you have a huge job ahead of you making all those custom graphics.

Frankly speaking, that is beyond the skill level of the average RPG maker user, and takes more time than the average person can afford.

Furthermore, unless you're comfortable with scripting, you're going to have to accept the default grid locked movement, which means that a lot of more complex environmental designs are rendered pointless.

With or without grid movement though, editing tile passability and spending time configuring the parallax, combined with having to layer so that the events don't appear over or under parts of the parallax where they aren't supposed to, is such a large job, that most people can't be bothered.

For beginners and people with limited time, and computer abilities, using the rtp, and maybe an overlay or two, is more than enough.

At the end of the day, if you're serious about making a game and finishing it, you have to prioritize and streamline your workload.

Setting up a project that demands a complete graphical production from scratch, is a good way to sabotage yourself. It's only feasible if you know you have the time and energy to make it happen. If not, it's often just vaporware waiting to happen. After all, a lot of people don't even finish their rtp projects.

I wish you good luck on your project though!

It's ny experience, that people here responds very well to custom graphics.

 

[CWells]

Hey, Venka.

I appreciate your response and understand completely.  It's not so much that my ideas/methods are frowned upon, just that not many people know how to work with that level of graphic complexity.  Gotcha.

Well, I suppose we'll have to remedy that.  As I continue progress on my project, I suppose I'll have to make some tutorials on content creation.  And, of course, I'll release some of my things into the community to help promote an alternative development path to the RTP.

Unless anyone else has any other comments, I guess this thread can be closed as I'm satisfied with Venka's response.

Thanks again!

I wouldn't mind some tips for a few map making ideas. I'm pretty decent with PhotoshopCS5 and have been using it for quite a while.

 

[orochii]

95% of RPG Maker users don't make their own graphics. People mostly do mapping with resources from other people OR the RTP ones. And the parallax mapping, which most people do by using certain sets of parts made also by other person. Like doing collage.

From that other 5% there's still a lot of people that just loves the 2D style. Because anyway, you can use renders to make your characters and scenarios, or you can use any other technique like graphical drawing, vector drawing, or pixel art. It all depends on what you use/what you want to do.

So, at the end is people's choice. Anyone is free of doing what they want. They could be making a vanilla-styled RPG, while practicing an art style. Then at a later game they could try and start making their own graphics to give it more of their own touch (or just use them since their first game, don't be shy!). Or whatever! Because it could be the case that this specific hypothetical person isn't the graphic kind, but a good composer or a scripter, or just a hobbyist. Or a game designer on development (?).

The important part is strive for what you want to do, this is also a place for learning, isn't it?

Orochii Zouveleki

 

[zaev]

Hey, guys.

I appreciate the additional insight and perspective.  It makes much more sense now.  

Thanks for the comments - happy mapping! =)