Artwork: "But I didn't ASK for critique."

Discussion in 'General Lounge' started by Saltwater Croc, Jun 26, 2016.

?

If it's clear critique isn't desired, will you give it anyway?

  1. Yes I will. Don't post if you don't want critique. Period.

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  2. No I won't. Their wishes should respected. (No matter how asinine the reasonings may seem...)

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  3. I don't know. I might or might not. Depending on the situation... (Explain?)

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  1. Skunk

    Skunk Melody Master Veteran

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    You are referring to the production and not the song writing. 


    I think you may have missed my point :(


    A composer isnt a producer.


    not saying composers can't produce, but it isnt their main job.


    The main job is to write the music, other people produce it so there is a small viariation between music and artwork now that I think about it that way.


    I have included some proof lol
    I am not a producer although I wish I was a master at it, this is a song i wrote note for note, and produced myself.


    You will noticed the mix is terrible, but it's still a decent arrangement.







    thats more along the lines of what I was getting at.. if that makes sense.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 29, 2016
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  2. Saltwater Croc

    Saltwater Croc Voice Actor/Frelance Composer Veteran

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    @Skunk Most composers like you and me also have to produce.  That's just the nature of the beast.
    Alas, I think we're getting of topic here.


    Back on topic, today in a chat room  witnessed amazing RM drama unfold.  Someone asked for feedback on a map. THEY ASKED!  Feedback was given and they immediately rejected it. They called people names. They started cussing.   I mean... really???
    Asking for crits puts you out there! Open season!
    *sigh*  It hurts my ears when I hear children like that whine.
     
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  3. Skunk

    Skunk Melody Master Veteran

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    Lol some people just dont "got it".


    And ya I know what you mean, we are forced to produce big time.


    but mastering.... not gonna happen lol


    not professionally anyway.


    Seeing your profile... I am tempted to start "contracting" my services out as well as a freelance composer.


    I bet it can open a lot of cool doors hey?
     
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  4. Ms Littlefish

    Ms Littlefish Dangerously Caffeinated Global Mod

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    I never really answered the poll question, but ultimately if someone asked not to receive critique I wouldn't give it. There'd be no real reason to, and yeah, it would be a bit boorish to completely ignore them. I wanted to comment again because I really have to agree with the idea that context does matter. On the internet it's very easy for boundaries to get incredibly blurred and even to dehumanize each other. If someone's made a personal showcase or an advertisement it'd feel pretty silly to write up a sprawling analysis of the anatomy on a left foot, on a drawing that's likely been finished no less. I believe fundamentally in the exchange of ideas and teaching each other, but I can definitely agree with the notion that it's good to remind yourself if the context would be appropriate. 
     
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  5. TheAlexG

    TheAlexG Veteran Veteran

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    Honestly, I choose it depends. In the case of perhaps showing it to friends or family, and you happen to have taken a gander, it's really not mine or anyone's place to start critiquing your work when it's obvious you want a select few to see the work you do, and what you put into it, and garner some support and motivation. 


    However....


    if if you come to a large forum or showcase, and repeatedly ask for people to not critique you in a place where you're supposed to be there for such things, along with feedback and insight, I believe you're crossing a line. If you come to a place meant for critique, and get offended when people do so, you're in the wrong place and need to look elsewhere. People won't respect you if you can't handle input, and are just the type that want people to nod their head when you say, "Lookie Lookie what I did! Isn't it awesome! I did it all by myself!"


    No... Just... Keep it what you're looking for in the appropriate places. 
     
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  6. LuLingqi1

    LuLingqi1 A Spellthief With A Bone To Pick Veteran

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    I hit I might or might not.


    I could care less if you want critique or not. You're showing me something, I'm gonna say how I feel. However, if I honestly don't care, I wont say anything at all.
     
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  7. svarn

    svarn Veteran Veteran

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    I think it's rather rare for people to explicitly say '' I DO NOT WANT ANY CRITIQUES'' ;d but of course, if I'd see a disclaimer like that I'd never leave a critique.


    Otherwise I might say something if I feel like it. However if I do give crits, they are meant to help person improve, and I tend to stay away from places where other people might read such critique as well (I think it's rude to critique people in front of others, especially if it's a stream or something). Unless they'd ask for it themselves of course.


    That's probably also because after giving a lot of critiques I've realised how difficult it is, and how easily you can be mistaken about it.


    I treat this rule more loosely if I'm around friends, but even that can lead to really awkward situations, where I might just be wrong, or the person is unable to see the problem.


    Also over time I've learnt that the less you know about art, the easier it is to give critiques to others (as weird as it may seem). Because you just point out very simple mistakes, or stuff that you've just learnt. But more experienced artist would know that those are minor and not really relevant things. And that leads to them giving vague and frustrating answers like "your fundamentals are not quite there".


    Nowadays I tend to stay away from giving out critiques, unless someone specificly asks for them.
     
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  8. Gin

    Gin The djinn Veteran

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    I chose number 2  :p  (No I won't. Their wishes should respected. No matter how asinine the reasonings may seem...)


    It may feel like a cowardly thing to do, not to have others criticize our work and play it always on the safe side, but sometimes it goes far beyond that. And although I would never do this, I can relate and empathize with it. :popcorn:


    Looking at it from the outside, for someone to say that they don´t want either positive or negative reviews doesn´t seem like a coward thing to do. Art is made for us to feel, and feelings don´need words! Each person can describe what they are experiencing in words, but only they can really know what they are feeling because it is diferent to everyone, no matter how similar the words and the experience might seem. :)


    Also, more often than not, critiques are not positive and people don´t chose words aimed to bring wonderland back to life! People chose though, strong, decisive words that can hit the artist right in the stomach and are made to do so!


    So, you randomly looked at a kid´s drawing and said that the arm was out of perspective, and you are wondering hat the heck went wrong?! :blink:  Well, you could just glance at it, know something was wrong and say stuff like, keep practising.(it doesn´t matter how 50.00 people say to us it is wrong, perspective only comes with practise untill we see it! We wouldn´t see it before, even if it hit us right in the face!!!) You watched a kid that is limited by perspective and other anatomy mistakes, untill he blooms, and then when perspective is no longer an issue, he will only be hold back by the size of his\her imagination and dreams, and art wil be born!


    Don´t take it personally. You were just one of the everyday people who reminded this kid how he sucks, and he probably took it out on you, for being a stranger and all of that... But next time remember that people need incentive, so art can florish. And I´m not telling you to say what you don´t mean, but some things are better unsaid... :|


    (sorry for the typos...I´m sure they´re here somewhere..)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2016
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  9. Sharm

    Sharm Pixel Tile Artist Veteran

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    I critique my nieces art, and she's 7.  She loves it 'cause then she learns how to draw even better, which helps her get what's in her mind on the page.  I mean, I do it appropriately, I don't say "hey, this is all wrong" I say things like "Next time, try drawing the eyes in the middle of the face instead of at the top." and I don't overwhelm her with suggestions.  I think sometimes people forget that critique and criticism are not the same thing.  I don't think criticisms are helpful at all, but the whole point of a critique is to help you improve, not to say something is bad.


    @Celianna  I'm surprised you think that way.  I critique your stuff all the time and you've never reacted like you disliked me doing it.  Was I wrong?  I can stop.  Critiquing someone's photograph of themselves is excessively rude though, that's not the same thing at all.
     
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  10. Scinaya

    Scinaya ~ Veteran

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    I voted for "it depends" and perhaps it boils down to whether I think it'd benefit them or not. I try to comment on work I suppose the creator can appreciate the critique. It'd be both waste of time and in the worst case scenario the receiving end might feel bad - nobody would win. Since honestly, even well intended critique can sting (it helps to improve and in the end I'm happy to get it, but if I'm tired the initial reaction might be to pull hairs and moan internally on mistakes I didn't catch myself).


    In addition, I prefer giving critique to someone showing will to improve and admitting on practicing or asking for it. If a piece makes me feel some way, I might also give unsolicited critique, as I tend to hope for the person to strive even further. I try to convey that idea across though on the side. Sadly I guess to my experience the critique I give can sometimes end up lost in middle of the soft fluff and encouragement.
     
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  11. Fungii

    Fungii Veteran Veteran

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    I mean personally I have a bit of an adverse reaction to any kind of negative feedback in any aspect of my life; going through university I wouldn't look at my grades until well after they were received because I would hate to hear the thing I had spent months working on was subpar. I mean on the flip side I've never been straight up abused (spare one time because I dared post on a chan) but I still panic even when my boss says he wants to talk after my shift.


    I even have to step back and wait a bit before I reply to crit I do get because I know if I'm not careful I'll make an ass of myself, haha. I guess it's equal parts "don't be a jerk" at both? I'm one of those people who needs to in the right mindset to take it in or I risk rejecting it all out of panic.
     
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  12. svarn

    svarn Veteran Veteran

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    This is a really good thing that you are aware of this. I've noticed that for myself as well, that when I'm beeing put on the spot, and I need to "respond" to someone giving me critique, I imediatelly get very defensive. I need some time to look throught it, and maybe even try out some things. My body just automaticly reacts like that, even if I know that critique comes from someone much better, and there's 95% chance that they are right.


    However if they give me 20minutes, I can judge their words much much better, and learn from what they are trying to teach me.
     
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  13. Fungii

    Fungii Veteran Veteran

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    I mean admittedly sometimes my response is no response at all, which I'm aware has it's own faults but hey, can't respond poorly if I don't respond at all, right?  :guffaw:
     
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  14. Zeriab

    Zeriab Huggins! Veteran

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    In a setting such as this forum the critique does not only exists in a bubble between the creator and the critique writer. There are plenty of possible readers who may benefit and participates as well.


    That is a factor I feel is worthwhile to consider as well. Otherwise I'd go with PMs.


    *hugs*


     - Zeriab
     
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  15. nio kasgami

    nio kasgami VampCat Veteran

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    I will play both side of the coin


    regardless the people don't want comment or not I will criticism I hate being double face and pretend something who bother is not bother me and I hate praising when something is bother me I will give him / her a kind comment on their work showing their positive point.  Although I will also show the bad point of their draw because I do that for their improvement.


    Now if you look on the side of receiving critisism what I find acceptable is something constructive and respectful to the artist 


    e.g : the coloring should use a little of reductions to the shading saturations.


    what's I find useless and non constructive and should be abstain to be said because it's mean and unrespectful : 


    any cristism who contain  provocation word such : mediocre , shitty , ugly etc


    e.g : this coloring is mediocre because you mess up the shading saturation.


    this kind of critism honestly is bad because it's provoke by saying this ugly etc and obviously this not help much.


    Anyway's 


    that's was my word
     
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  16. SLEEP

    SLEEP grunge rock cloud strife Veteran

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    critiques take time and effort to write, so you might as well not waste your time and only write them for people who appreciate it. theres a lot of artists who are thirsty for critique but can't find any. And a lot of artists who don't want any who are drowning in it. wouldn't everyone be a lot happier if these two positions were flipped? do people just... like being contrary? Stop
     
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  17. DoubleX

    DoubleX Just a nameless weakling Veteran

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    (Just saying)How about paraphrasing your one-liner to this:

    If they'd still give you the same reply, then lol


    For me, if it's clear that critique isn't desired by the artwork creator/editor/poster, then I'll try either of the below directions:


    1. Make my comments not looking like a critique at all(e.g.: a simple wonder), while still serving the same purpose of giving critique directly(to avoid triggering their defense mechanisms) :p


    2. If critique is highly desirable for many of those reading/listening to/using that artwork(like elusive partial plagiarisms), then I'll consider voicing out the critique explicitly :)


    So I guess, to me, it depends on the actual situation(At least I also have to closely observe how undesirable for them to receive what kind of critiques there)
     
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  18. kaukusaki

    kaukusaki Awesome Programmer Extraordinaire Veteran

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    I've had my share of critiques online and most I just roll my eyes to because as far as I know, they're just some dude on some computer being a negative nancy who rages on art perfection (which is unobtainable). the soul of the artist comes out in those tiny imperfections ya know.


    I don't post my art because i'm colourblind and my perspective is wonky despite using rulers (art school dropout here - I know my stuff &  I also know my own limitations i.e. bad eyesight). But the few art pieces I have shown has always blown folks away and it's embarrassing when they ask for commissions. I don't feel I'm at the bob ross level of awesome yet...


    bobross.jpg
     
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  19. HexMozart88

    HexMozart88 The Master of Random Garbage Veteran

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    I'm not at that level either. I think that when someone posts on the internet, people should either say that they like it, or just not say anything. Trust me. When I would show my work to my friend (simply because we're both manga artists), I keep forgetting he's worse than me in what I call "Art OCD". He finds every single minuscule detail and blows it out f proportion. Especially if I've drawn a character he doesn't like. One time he tried to rip up my drawing of Tomohiko Kazami. So I promised myself if I see something on the internet that's horrible, I won't say anything.  
     
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  20. Sysen

    Sysen Veteran Veteran

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    Depends, but usually some people post it for part of their online portfolio.


    And i think it's inappropriate for me if i point out mistakes on a place where they showcase their artwork to find work.


    Though it's different story if you post it on some place or groups that's dedicated on improving and giving critiques.
     
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