Average Endgame Levels

[RosenSorcerer]

Hi guys,
I'm currently working on an RPG and I'm at the phase where I'm deciding how my stats will interact with leveling. I was wondering what average endgame level and stats were in RPG maker games that you've made or played! I've got starting stats picked out, but end game stats largely dependent on what I end up with as an endgame level.

Any input is appreciated!

 

[lianderson]

Depends on how long your game is, and more importantly, what kind of game you're making. Some games have the player be around level 20 at the end, and others have them be 60+.

 

[Kes]

I don't think an 'average' exists. As lianderson said, it all depends on the length, complexity and genre of the game. A game which is less battle focused but a lot of story will have lower levels than a more battle intensive game of the same length.

I think you just have to make the game, see what levels come out in play testing and work from there.

 

[XIIIthHarbinger]

As both Kes & Lianderson stated, & I will echo as well, there really isn't a right or wrong answer for all games.

It really is a question of mechanics, play style etcetera of each individual game.

For example with my own project, my level cap is 99, & scaled my stats according to the player trying to reach that level cap. So that with top tier gear, & min-maxing play style, they can get close to the parameter caps of 999, but still be far enough from it that S class monsters will still be comfortably more powerful than the player.

However, I am making an open world sandbox, with hundreds of maps. Where the player, rather than following a central "main quest" to defeat the standard JRPG big bad, wanders around freely doing independent side quests, choosing from one of five individual factions within the world to side with, & helping them to achieve dominance.

Simply put, my game is scaled the way it is, because of the decentralized narrative & high level of player freedom inherent to the design. To account for the "look under every rock & bush" style players, who tend to go nutz in games of my particular genre. For example hunting down elite monsters to fight & seeking out legendary weapons & armors.

If on the other hand, I was making a very directed story, with set number of battles, based on each being an event in the story line, I would take the opposite approach.

 

[Titanhex]

In RPG Maker MV there's a useful "Test Battle" function in the troops page.

Use it to test out several scenarios involving your End Game party and their End Game equipment. Try to use the most extreme ranges, instead of trying to find the perfect spot. The most optimal level and least optimal level.
Make a minor adjustment for how deep into the dungeon the encounter might be.
When making changes, make the change large. Overshoot your intended mark, then adjust. It will speed things up until you gain the needed sense for it.

That's all I got for you.

 

[bgillisp]

Like everyone else has said, it depends on your game. All you can do is make the entire game, then see what level players are on average. For example, I originally intended my game to have the party in the last dungeon around 33rd level. That proved very unrealistic unless I had all enemies give pathetic EXP. In the end, my party is about 55th level when you fight the final boss, though a player who stops and fights every enemy on every map will be probably low 60th level.

 

[Wavelength]

It depends entirely on your game and any number we try to give you will only hurt you!

Eventually you will need to have other players playtest your game to see what the true average endgame levels look like. But since you don't want to present playtesters with a build whose balance is so far off it makes playtesting impossible, here's how you can get a rough estimate:

• Figure out how many battles you think the player will be playing on average as they run through an area (not including bosses).
• Multiply that by the average EXP given by a random-encounter troop in the area. (Just add up the EXP for each enemy in the troop)
• Then, add to that number the EXP given by any bosses in the area. Write this number (and its calculation) down - it's the total amount of EXP you expect players to earn while they're in this area.
• To get the amount of EXP you expect the players to have at any given point in your game, add up the amount of EXP they've earned in all previous areas of your game. (For end-of-area bosses, also add all EXP earned in this area except the EXP from the boss itself)
• To get the Level you expect the players to have at any given point in your game, go to the Classes tab for the characters in the database, and open the EXP Curve graph. Go to the "Total" tab. Compare the EXP they have at this point to the EXP amounts on this list to see what Level the character is expected to have reached at this point in your game.

For example, let's say 'Spooky Forest' has 3 random-encounter troops that give a total of 50 EXP, 75 EXP, and 100 EXP, respectively, the area is somewhat straightforward so I expect the player to do just a little backtracking, the most direct path through the forest is 90 tiles long, and the Random Encounters are set to trigger about once per 20 steps. Notch 90 up to 140 for the bit of backtracking - this means the player will fight about 7 battles. The average EXP from a battle is 75 EXP (50 + 75 + 100 = 225 / 3 = 75). There are also two boss fights in Spooky Forest which grant 125 EXP and 300 EXP. So, we expect the player to earn (75 * 7) + 125 + 300 = 950 EXP in their run through Spooky Forest.

If the two areas before Spooky Forest granted an average 250 EXP and 650 EXP, then you can expect characters to have 250 + 650 + 950 = 1850 EXP at this point, which you can compare to your characters' EXP curve to find what Level they'll be at and therefore what stats they'll have (sans equipment, permanent stat-boost items, etc.).

Remember that if your party includes more than 4 characters and you don't share EXP with Reserve Members of the party, that characters' EXP levels will vary highly based on how often they were in your Active Battle Party.

 

[bgillisp]

To put this in better perspective, here is a video snippet of my party as they start the final battle, taken today. You can see their levels when I go to the party menu:


Here is the video snippet of the same battle made in 2016 back when a lot of the plot still had placeholder items in Chapters 7 and 9 so I didn't gain any levels from those areas. You can see the levels when I change party members, which I do a few times, first time around the 4 minute point.


Disclaimer: This video from 2016 has a lot of old skills shown which no longer exist, as the skill system was redone in 2017 so it was more balanced. Also you will see a few icons showing wrong names, that was also fixed in the skill overhaul.

For those who cannot see the videos, the one taken today shows most party members at Level 54 - 56th level. The one taken in 2016 shows then at around 42nd - 44th level.