zerobeat032

Oh, it's that Zerobeat kid...
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as someone who's only using RTP for battle animations... I can say I've seen people work wonders with the RTP. it just sucks there's such a stigma around using it, even within the community. I'm blessed I can draw just decent enough to provide a unique look to my game. but not everyone else is gonna have that going for them. some just can't draw and that's no one's fault. there's tips and tricks tho for making the RTP look not so much like the RTP (if you feel that's an issue to begin with).

all in all, if you wanna use it, I say go for it.
 

Ellenor

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I'd go further. Good artists are still bad artists much of the time. They just don't stop! They keep compiling the good things out from their full body of work.

When I was younger, 92% of my work was garbage. I've grown a lot as an artist, and now I'd say 60% of my work is garbage. Haha! I'm quite proud of that 40% of quality!
You got a whole whooping 8 procent that was good when you were young?!
Lol! I can't stand anything from when I was younger.
Too many errors that makes me shudder...
 

ericv00

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You got a whole whooping 8 procent that was good when you were young?!
Lol! I can't stand anything from when I was younger.
Too many errors that makes me shudder...
There are a few things that I look back on and still wonder how I made them. Younger me impresses me a fair bit. I would impress him. We are just two different people. My high school and college sketchbooks are full of embarrassing drawings, but there are a few that really make me wish I could tap back into that frame of mind, that idea, that coordination of brain and hand.
 

Willibab

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Use the art YOU think looks good. If you don't think your own art is good then your options are

- Use it anyway
- Improve your skills which will take time.
- Use other people's art (free or buy) or RTP.

If you think the RTP looks good then use it.

The exception being that if you want to sell a lot, then naturally you should to for mass appeal whatever that happens to be atm.
 

CraneSoft

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Even people that is great at art often had to use RTP as well as most developers simply do not have the time and resources to make their own assets for everything, and users often do not care if you use RTP - what they care is if a game looks enticing enough to catch their interest in the first place.

If you had to choose between them, RTP is the better choice. However, you have to work with it knowing that it is not going to stand out and will most likely go unnoticed amongst the sea of garbage that is already out there.

Hence, if you are able to, work on your art skills just like any of your other skill required for game development and don't be afraid at using RTP where it belongs. It will help out in the long run.
 

freakytapir

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Just a hard truth:

Game development is a multi facetted thing, it requires
  • Artistic talent
  • Storytelling Talent
  • Battle design talent
  • UX talent
  • Gameplay design talent
No one has all these talents in equal measure. They all take different brain registers.

If the RTP is a six, and your art talents are a 2, then just use RTP.

Make a ****ing game.

I see too many here who would rather be artists than game designers.

Because, believe it or not, graphics are the quickest thing to fade. A great looking game that plays like ****? Yeah, lots of people getting their Steam refunds on that one.

Graphics are for trailers and showboating on forums.

(I mean, consistent graphical design is important, but this can be done wit the RTP do not confuse original art with good graphical design).

An HD turd lit in spectacular lighting is still a turd.

People replay old games with, by todays standards, ugly graphics all the time.

FF VII looks like crap, but people replay it all the time.

Pokémon didn't innovate any of it's graphics for years, and they sell millions of copies.

Another thing is production time.

500 hours to create custom assets? I could make fifty more dungeons in that time.

Now, if you have a team, sure.

Get someone on those custom assets, someone on the dungeon design, someone writing that narrative, but as a one man show? Focus on your strengths, especially if the RTP is there as a safety net.
 

Bernkastelwitch

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IMO, if you can't draw then it's better to use RTP and focus on where your strengths lie. I notice some people get so hold up on the RTP stigma that they either hyper focus on the art at the cost of everything else or just don't work on a game at all, thinking there's no point in it if they can't even change the RTP.

There's plugins that can make RTP art look better. With the plugins, you can add lighting or shading to an RTP asset to make it stick out from other games with RTP. While some may be turned off by the mere idea of it being RTP, I believe that the mere fact you can do that and put effort to doing it shows you care about your project enough to try and do something even if you can't afford art commissions or can't draw.
 

SGHarlekin

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What about if it's deliberately bad art?

Ala

View attachment 224072
This is not bad art. It's looking funny like a comic and I doubt any regular 4 year old could not recreate that.
What I was referring to is someone with absolutely no experience or artistic talent picking up paint and making assets(with a mouse). (Someone like me for example lol.)
 

kirbwarrior

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What about if it's deliberately bad art?
Undertale and Minecraft have deliberately bad art
I'm not sure I would call any of this bad art. Knight Shift has a particular kind of goofy look and feel it seems to be trying for and is consistent about it. I don't actually know what people think is 'bad' about Undertale aside from maybe it just being spritework. And Minecraft very intentionally wanted to feel 'nostalgic' in a system that very much isn't. They didn't have to overly rely on a dirty pixel look but they did and keep that look with most textures (with the ones that don't have that sticking out very clearly such as the pure ore blocks).
 

ericv00

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What about if it's deliberately bad art?
If it's intended to be 'bad' art, why is it so consistent and cohesive? :smile:

I actually have a pie-in-the-sky idea for a game after my current project that actually does revolve around bad and broken assets (as well as other things). The main character will be the only thing that is normal, and the game world finds them to be bizarre because of it.

Anyway, if you haven't already done so, I still say you should slap together title screen art for Knight Shift. I think the style would work very well to make a big ol' collage of the characters. Wouldn't take too much effort, either. Just grab existing character images and layer them together until you've filled the screen.
 

Hadria

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What is "bad" art, tho?. Minecraft has low resolution art, and vanilla looks better than any of those 256x256 textures pack, which look really out of place even if those are technically more quality art.

For me, good art is any art that fits the mood of the project, and I would call bad art any inconsistent art in a project even if the individual assets are of excellent quality in their own. For example, I can't stand those projects which look part RPT, part comic/cartoon and part HD realistic.


This for me is good art as long as the whole project is done in this theme and fits the mood of what you are trying to tell, if the next scene is ultra realistic or RTP or if you are telling me a plot really dark, this will be bad art regardless of the complexity of the individual assets.

The same goes for Undertale, for example, or any other game. If you go to any of those unity asset-flip games over steam, they instantly look off and inconsistent.
 

gstv87

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there's not a less-bad thing to do.
*THE* thing to do, the only thing, the one thing you should do, is design an art style.
if all you can draw is stick figures in MS Paint..... make the entire game from hand-drawn assets in MS Paint.
everything, from the character sprites to the interface.

that way you turn inability into choice.
nobody can complain about sub-par sprites, when they can't pinpoint the fault to the sprites alone, in a setting where everything is the same quality.
 

Iron_Brew

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If it's intended to be 'bad' art, why is it so consistent and cohesive? :smile:

I actually have a pie-in-the-sky idea for a game after my current project that actually does revolve around bad and broken assets (as well as other things). The main character will be the only thing that is normal, and the game world finds them to be bizarre because of it.

Anyway, if you haven't already done so, I still say you should slap together title screen art for Knight Shift. I think the style would work very well to make a big ol' collage of the characters. Wouldn't take too much effort, either. Just grab existing character images and layer them together until you've filled the screen.

I actually have something for that which exists on the itch page:

1650820661389.png

I really appreciate the feedback though! I might make something a little more intricate!
 

Garryg

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Well define 'bad' art. If it looks like it's taken two minutes to be designed in MS Paint then it's 'probably' on the bad side. If you do it in 'big pixel' style it is easier to produce but you still need an eye for design. Most 'art' is subjective anyway, some people will like what you have done, some wont, and most won't really notice or care ether way if it's decent.

I have done a game with all the graphics being done in MS Paint by the way... Paint itself dosn't mean bad! No it wasn't an RPG maker game, it was a side scrolling adventure game in XNA. Look that one up in the history books!
 

Iron_Brew

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Well define 'bad' art. If it looks like it's taken two minutes to be designed in MS Paint then it's 'probably' on the bad side. If you do it in 'big pixel' style it is easier to produce but you still need an eye for design. Most 'art' is subjective anyway, some people will like what you have done, some wont, and most won't really notice or care ether way if it's decent.

I have done a game with all the graphics being done in MS Paint by the way... Paint itself dosn't mean bad! No it wasn't an RPG maker game, it was a side scrolling adventure game in XNA. Look that one up in the history books!

I dunno that I agree with that. I designed this in 2 minutes in ms paint and then redid it in 2 minutes in paint.net just to get transparency and match the specs of the rest:

Loamshark.png - worked, but was blockout, and became Loamshark.png

But I actually kind of prefer the design on the left. Sometimes simplicity is the best way forward, right?
 

Hadria

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I keep arguing there is no "bad" art, art is subjective, and as such, there is art you might not like, and there is art I might not like, there is art that some art experts think is garbage, and that same art is gold for some others, as such there is only opinion.

In the context of topic within this thread I think what the OP is referring as "bad" art is because he is not comfortable with his/her art skills, and as such I would always recommend still going with your own art, because art is a skill that is only learned with practice, and because no matter how bad do you think your art skills are, using anything else asides from RTP will help differentiate your project from the others.
 

Garryg

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Exactly, something you do yourself will always be distinctive if nothing else. I've tryed everything from just black outlines to full panted characters in my games before. Although moste were made with various paintngpackages or pixel editors. It's all good, even whwn it's bad... roll with bad! ;)
 

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