Bad Reputation of RPG Maker

Discussion in 'Video Games' started by dulsi, Feb 10, 2019.

  1. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    And here I share the similar reason as Rixis. Knowing the engine inside out, knowing its limit, knowing how the community designs their game, and all. I play RM games with a different reason than actually trying to enjoy the game. I'm gonna quote my post in What are your thought on RM games.

    If I do actually want to spend on a game for having fun, I'd choose a different game to buy.
     
    #21
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  2. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    What goes around comes around though. If you don't want to pay for RPGMaker games, then you have no reason to complain if no one buys your game, as they only used the same attitude on your game as you just did on all the other games.
     
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  3. VisitorsFromDreams

    VisitorsFromDreams Veteran Veteran

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    Thats a strange sentiment to have. When I buy a game its for the content. You know the writing, the characters, the mechanics, the gameplay, these are all elements that are tied to the creators vision. The engine its made in shouldnt have anything to do with it, its just a tool used to make it. I admit ive never purchased anything made with the RTP, but theres a tonne of great games out there that you wouldnt even know where made in RPG Maker if only for the steam tag. To each their own I guess, that just seems incredibly closed minded to me.
     
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  4. Rixis (릭시스)

    Rixis (릭시스) Mecha Queen Veteran

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    I'm not saying there is anything wrong with buying RPG maker made games, its just a feeling I get personally. And honestly I can almost always tell when a game was made with RPG maker just by watching even 1 minute of gameplay of the game. Now I could be wrong if it turns out it infact wasn't made with RPG maker, but I can't think of a time I didnt notice this the other way around. One big give away is often the tile based movement formula RPG maker uses as well as the dialogue boxes among other minor things a veteran can spot easily. Again nothing wrong with any of that, just for me I've yet to find a commercial RPg maker project Ive wanted to spend money on. Except Maybe too the moon due to it being so critically acclaimed.
     
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  5. Robin Hoot

    Robin Hoot Veteran Veteran

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    My reason is similar to Rixis, combined with the fact that with so many great RM made free games out there, it feels weird to spend money on paid ones. That isn't to say I look down on people who sells RPG Maker games or anything.

    And for the record, I bought RPG Maker (Ace and later MV) exclusively for my own amusement. I have no intention of ever selling a game made with it (or any other engine, for that matter). Honestly it's imo a very weird assumption that everyone who uses it wants to make money selling games.
     
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  6. bgillisp

    bgillisp Global Moderators Global Mod

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    @Robin Hoot : That I can understand. I just have noticed there are devs though who want to make a commercial game but then don't want to buy commercial RPGMaker games too and then wonder why their game didn't sell either. So consider it more a cautionary post there.

    Myself I do usually buy commercial RPGMaker games, using the same rules I use for other devs and even AAA companies:

    -The game must look interesting to me, and not appear to be Baby's First Ever Game (nothing wrong if it is your first game, but don't make something that looks like you spent 3 hours on it, then just slapped it up on Steam).
    -If I've bought a game from you before I had to like it or at least see promise in your game development. If it looks really bad and you show no sign of wanting to improve from it, then nope. And I use the same rule on game series too even from AAA companies, I may try game 1 of a series, but if I don't like it and/or the direction it's going in, I'm not buying game 2 of that series. For example, I still have yet to play Dragon Age 2 as Dragon Age 1 honestly bored me, so I stopped playing that series.
    -It must appear to be a true RPG, and not a game that is trying to shove half-naked women in it with a minimal RPG tacked on. Sorry, if that is what your game looks like I check the not interested box and move on as I want an RPG here.
    -And of course, I must actually have the $$$ to afford it. That hit me more last year when I had a $26,000 medical bill to pay off (thankfully insurance got it down to $6,000, but even that was hard) so buying games of any sort kinda took a back seat until that was taken care of.
     
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  7. TWings

    TWings The Dragon Whisperer Veteran

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    I'm with bgillisp, I don't define the games I buy by the engine they're made with. If a game catches my interest, I'll buy it (assuming I can afford it).
    It may beeing born from passion, but for most devs it still represent a lot of work (dozens, hundreds of hours, more ?), and that work deserve to be compensated in some way no matter what tool they use to make it.
     
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  8. ChampX

    ChampX Veteran Veteran

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    @Rixis (릭시스) @Robin Hoot so by this logic if the exact same looking game was made in another engine such as Unity or even developed from scratch, would you buy it? This includes aspects that look like RM (there are Unity Asset Store kits that look like RM btw).

    Yes a lot of free games come out with RM, but a lot of free games come out with anything that can create games. I mean the mobile platform is flooded with free games but I don't think that would stop people paying for them. Most of those were usually made in Unity or coded from scratch at that.

    Yes we also know RM inside out, but that's how it is with any engine you work with after some time. I guess because I also know Unity inside out I should stop paying for Unity games to right? I also know C++, so I guess I won't buy most AAA games anymore at that. I really feel bad for the developers who have been working on games since the beginning, they can practically no longer buy games since they are pretty familiar with nearly just about everything and if they aren't they could learn quickly.

    Just my two cents.
     
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  9. Robin Hoot

    Robin Hoot Veteran Veteran

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    @ChampX I was just answering a question asked to me. You are free to buy all the games you want, I will never tell you not to buy it because you are familiar with the engine or reprimand you for doing so. If I implied anywhere that everyone must think like me and do the same as I do, I apologize. Like I said, I don't look down on people who sell games made with RPG Maker or think they should give away their games for free.

    My knowledge about game development in general is pretty much limited to RPG Maker, so the references are all missed on me.

    To answer the question in your first paragraph, no, I wouldn't buy such a game whether they were developed on RM, Unity or whatever else.
     
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  10. ChampX

    ChampX Veteran Veteran

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    @Robin Hoot I am merely just showing my thought process. I don't actually expect to change people at the end of the day. I will challenge ideas and thoughts that stand out to me to try and understand them better and this was something that didn't click with me so I wanted to dig deeper, but I never actually thought you were pushing your beliefs on others (I don't think most of the forum does either?). I am glad you answered my questions, thank you.
     
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  11. Rixis (릭시스)

    Rixis (릭시스) Mecha Queen Veteran

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    I'm well aware, but to answer your question I would say if I saw an RPG maker-like game but saw that it was made with Unity(regardless of the art direction, because that wasn't what i was talking about in the first place) I would be more inclined to be curious on how they went about making the game, as doing so in Unity would be quite an undertaking. Unless they made a conscious effort to keep everything feeling exactly like some of RPG makers premade aspects, you are going to notice a difference, I'm sure you being programmer yourself are aware of this.

    It actually has less to do with knowing the engines well and more to do with being overly familiar with what games come from said engine(but im not talking about how rm has a bad rep for weak games). When I see a game made with RM already have some vauge idea of what the game will play and feel like this is even true with games made in engines like Unreal, ive been turned off by AAA projects just from that feeling alone. Sure you can say im judging a book by its cover, but a cover is just as important to attract the attention if you want your product to sell. It all matters. And if I see a game that doesn't look like it will interest me then I basically wont be interested. Its pretty much that simple.

    Again I'm not saying I would absolutely never buy an RM game, im just saying im far less inclined to unless it looks incredibly interesting. I'm not so sure whats wrong with that.
     
    #31
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  12. OgreKiddo

    OgreKiddo Veteran Veteran

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    Everything with a low level of entry has a bad rep, it's those who master the tool/framework that really make waves.
     
    #32
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  13. lianderson

    lianderson Veteran Veteran

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    Tbh, and this is sad to say, there are so many bad RM games out there on Steam... that when someone dismisses my own game because I use the RPG Maker engine, I don't even get mad. I just shrug my shoulders, cause at the end of the day, I fully understand where they're coming from. Is what it is.
     
    #33
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  14. TWings

    TWings The Dragon Whisperer Veteran

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    I still kinda wonder, do they really sell enough copies to cover the 100$ entrance fee ? Because when it's sold at 1 or 2$, it needs at least about 100+ sales to begin to make a profit. And let's not even mention the 1000$ threshold for refund.
    I mean, you can tell they're bad just from the screenshots and the description. They usually get terrible review ratings. As pointed out, people tend to stay away from RM made games. So do they really manage to sell more than 100 copies ? Or do they eventually get away with it just because it's cheap and they often show a little flesh ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
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  15. TheoAllen

    TheoAllen Self-proclaimed jack of all trades Veteran

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    While I don't have the proof or anything. Some of RM games are rated as Mature (i.e, porn) and I believe that sold well on its target audience.
     
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  16. Lornsteyn

    Lornsteyn Sleepy Dragon Veteran

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    I think the hate the RPG Maker get is sad, but If you see how many simple RTP games are on steam, its understandable.
    This hate sadly even affect 2D games which werent made with RPG Maker.
    I dont read these useless negative comments in steam anymore, you cant take them seriously.
    Also I will not feel ashamed for using RPG Maker, why should I?
    Behind most games is a big company with lots of money and people, Im just one person.
    Everyone has something he/she can do better than other things.
    People cant really expect that everyone can write a own gameengine and what is the point in writing a game engine which should do the same like the RPG Maker, when you just can buy the RPG Maker.
     
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  17. Kupotepo

    Kupotepo Fantasy realist Veteran

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    @Lornsteyn, I agree that some of the negative comments are unwarranted. RPG Makers are a great tool and it is sad that some people have a bias toward the engine. A point of view RPG maker developers, this perception can be discouraging. I agree that everyone here tries their best as they could and you cannot be perfect everything compares the big game company what has big budgets.

    The point of view of game buyers regardless of game making tools, no reasonable game buyer wants to buy a bad-faith game which intends to trick a game buyer to buy base on the marketing scheme. Later on, that game player found that the game's description and the whole game are misleading. I am petty sure that game buyer will go to complain and they have the right to do so. (Honesty and Ethical Practice) Those complaints may inform another game buyer.


    Game Buyer Consideration: personal preference (Subjective- the developer does not have if they want to), game bug ( objective- if the developer is an ethical person, he/she will fix it, not silent a complaint customer), and dishonest marketing (objective- if the pictures on game demo and presentation do not represent the whole game, I think that intentionally dishonesty and game buyers should call them out.)

    After all, we are all game buyers and want the games as they are. Accountability and ethical practices might someday improve the reputation of the game developer. It is an individual, not a game engine, but it is all of us to act ethically and safeguard unethical practice of some game developer.
     
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  18. atoms

    atoms Veteran Veteran

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    I actually enjoy playing other people RPG Maker games. Whether they're good or not so good. If they're not so good however, and someone else already left a comment about it, I usually don't give feedback, but otherwise I try and give some helpful feedback if I play one. Of course we all have different opinions, but you never know if some of your opinions can actually help the developer out too! As someone who wants to make games, it can also help as we'd have similar mindsets, even if we end up taking the ideas we get in diffeent directions. I just find it interesting to know what's been released, etc.

    As for bad reputation, I think it depends on the type of game. If we're looking at Steam as an example, some RPG Maker games on there, and some games close or very similar to RPG Maker too, have a lot of positive reviews.
     
    #38
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  19. Milennin

    Milennin "With a bang and a boom!" Veteran

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    It gets a bad reputation because it's basically one of the easiest game making tools in existence, so any average Joe who spent 1 hour watching tutorial videos can pump out games (no offence to the average Joe). This wouldn't be a problem, except that some of these games make it onto Steam to be sold for money.

    When the majority of games made in an engine are bad, or below par, it gets a bad reputation. Because even the good games feel and even might look similar to the bad ones for using the same UI elements and default assets. It's a case of the 90% of bad dragging down the 10% of good.

    If RPG Maker wants to have a good reputation, there'd be a quality control filter in place that checks if a game is good enough to be sold for money. But that's not a realistic possibility, so it'll forever continue to have a bad reputation.
     
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  20. Kyuukon

    Kyuukon 主人公 Veteran

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    Many complain about bad RM games on Steam but how many bad Unity games (aka asset flips) are out there too lol? As long as the game is enjoyable use whatever engine serves you best :3
     
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