Balancing Skill Cost Items

Kupotepo

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Frostorm

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@Frostorm, do you contemplate doing the item cost skill for 1 arrow and you create a stacking state for the rest of the battle? And you can use the arrow for the rest of the battle without losing arrows.
I'm pretty confused by your original question as well lol. But anyway, for the arrow mechanic using state counters, I'm referring to the little white number on states added via YEP_BuffStatesCore's Lunatic mode. It has nothing to do with counter-attacks.
State Counters are newly added features to supplement states. They are used
purely in custom manners, which means they do not serve any function by
themselves. State Counters can be used to note a number of stacks, a stored
percentage, display a message, etc. All of it is purely updated based on
JavaScript functions.

---

There are a couple of notetags you can use for states:

<Counter Font Size: x>
This adjusts the font size of the counter.

<Counter Alignment: left>
<Counter Alignment: center>
<Counter Alignment: right>
This changes the alignment of the counter text.

<Counter Buffer X: +x>
<Counter Buffer X: -x>
This adjusts the X buffer range for the counter text.

<Counter Buffer Y: +x>
<Counter Buffer Y: -x>
This adjusts the Y buffer range for the counter text.

<Counter Text Color: x>
This changes the font color of the text to the text color x.

---

The following are JavaScript functions you may use to adjust counters:

battler.clearStateCounters();
- This will clear all the counter values for all states.

battler.setStateCounter(stateId, value);
- This will set the counter value for the particular state to 'value'.

battler.addStateCounter(stateId, value);
- This will add to the counter value for the state. The counter must be
a number in order for this to work.

battler.clampStateCounter(stateId, min, max);
- This will set a minimum and maximum value for the counter value of the
particular state. The counter must be a number in order for this to work.

battler.removeStateCounter(stateId)
- This will clear the counter value for the state.

battler.getStateCounter(stateId)
- This will return the current state counter value.
Here's what I used in the state's notebox, which is totally incomplete since I gave up on it. I kinda put it on the backburner for now, since I'd rather get SRD's Skill Extender working w/ LTBS instead.
JavaScript:
<Custom Establish Effect>
var skills = [];
skills.push(5); //"5" is a skillId for normal attack w/ a Bow (add as many skillId's as you like)
if (this.isSkill() && (skills.contains(this.item().id))) {
  user.addStateCounter(stateId, -1);
}
</Custom Establish Effect>
<Custom Battle Effect>
  user.setStateCounter(stateId, 10); //"10" refers to # of arrows at battle start
</Custom Battle Effect>
 

Kupotepo

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@Frostorm, I do not know that you do not understand what I am saying and I just learned what you refer to now in Yanfly Lunatic Mode. Interesting! I did not see that before.
1. An archer activates the skill.
2. The skill gives the ticking counter state which grants the arrow attack to that actor.
3. Every time the actor uses a bow attack, the states decrease.
4. The states disappeared after the battle.

I think understand now.
What I am confused about is do your skill cost an item or just a counter state skill?
Another question: did you create a ticking counter state on the enemy side? For example, in 3 marking states, the actor gets a critical attack bonus.

Hope I understand you completely because some of what you do is a technical concept.

Edit: ok, I forget you used the weapon requirement which a bow to activate the skill. :hswt:
5. This passive state is never removed, unless the arrow augment is unequipped
ok, you used an argument equipment way, touché.
 
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Frostorm

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@Frostorm, I do not know that you do not understand what I am saying and I just learned what you refer to now in Yanfly Lunatic Mode. Interesting! I did not see that before.
1. An archer activates the skill.
2. The skill gives the ticking counter state which grants the arrow attack to that actor.
3. Every time the actor uses a bow attack, the states decrease.
4. The states disappeared after the battle.

I think understand now. What I am confused about is do your skill cost an item?
Another question: did you create a ticking counter state on the enemy side? For example, 3 marking states, the actor get a critical attack bonus.
Actually it's more like this:
  1. Player equips a Bow, which has an augment slot for Arrows
  2. Player attaches Arrow into Bow
  3. Arrow (which is an augment) grants a passive state
    • the passive state has the code I posted earlier
    • <Custom Battle Effect> so the following code is run when a battle starts
    • user.setStateCounter(stateId, 10); you can use any # you want (10 in my case)
  4. Decrease the state counter by 1 every time a bow attack is used
    • skills.push(5); "5" is a skillId for normal attack w/ a Bow (add as many skillId's as you like)
    • user.addStateCounter(stateId, -1);
  5. This passive state is never removed, unless the arrow augment is unequipped
But like I said, I don't particularly like this method so I'm not using it atm. You would have to equip different arrows outside of combat for different effects. This method doesn't use an item cost, but my *ideal* method does.

Ideally, if I could get Skill Extender working, each of the archer's skills would bring up a submenu showing the various arrows in your possession. Under the hood, each of these choices is actually a clone of the base skill but customized so it uses a different arrow for each subskill. However, the player would only see the name of the arrows after selecting the skill/attack they want to use.
 
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duty

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I think you can overcome the "hoarding" tendency if the ingredients are readily available from shops, at a price point that's easy to budget for, and relatively rare to find outside of town.

The player learns s/he can reliably restock their supply in town, and is incentivized to do so before heading out into the wild.

To make it worth the player's investment, I'd personally opt to make "alchemy" reliable. No chance to miss. Fairly consistent damage output.

You may also want to ensure that the alchemy ingredients are more cost effective than spells and MP restorative items. If a fire spell costs 4 MP, and a mana potion restores 20 MP - the ingredients for the "alchemy" equivalent of the fire spell should cost 20% of the mana potion.
 

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@duty, I like your counter-argument for common wisdom. Thank you for your ideas here. You meant like the Ragnarok Online{just for visualizing when I referencing] where you can buy stuff in a certain town and not dropping from the monsters like the monsters are working at the gold mine company or the monsters are super genius scientists.

Sorry @Frostorm, I use your concept as an example. If I designed to separate an alchemist class into two aspects, I will have to separate into a chemist and a mysticist. The chemist will use the cheap item to make a spell-like you said. The mystics will use arguments like a crystal for heavy magic and do not forget transmutation.

You may also want to ensure that the alchemy ingredients are more cost effective than spells and MP restorative items. If a fire spell costs 4 MP, and a mana potion restores 20 MP - the ingredients for the "alchemy" equivalent of the fire spell should cost 20% of the mana potion.
To recap what you said, you mean like 4 MP and one item = fire spell of alchemist class, but the mage's fire spell costs 20 MP. That is a great idea.
 
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duty

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You meant like the Ragnarok Online{just for visualizing when I referencing] where you can buy stuff in a certain town and not dropping from the monsters
That's a good way to think about it. Basically, we want to discourage two player behaviors: hoarding and not buying ingredients.

If the ingredients are too rare, players will hoard them because they don't know where they're getting their next pile of gunpowder.

If the ingredients are available everywhere, such as from battle rewards or treasure chests, the player will never go to the store to stock up.

To recap what you said, you mean like 4 MP and one item = fire spell of alchemist class, but the mage's fire spell costs 20 MP. That is a great idea.
I think you get the idea. Essentially, using alchemy should be as efficient as other forms of spell casting.

If my mage can cast fire 5 times before needing to drink a mana potion to recover its MP, and the mana potion is less expensive than the ingredients to cast an alchemy spell 5 times - I'll save more gold by buying mana points instead of alchemy ingredients.

I almost want to say you want the alchemy option to be more efficient than standard spell casting, since the player has to use more time and brain power to plan for what ingredients to buy before taking on a dungeon. The player should get a proportional reward for the extra effort.
 

Kupotepo

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@duty, My alchemist will use 4 elements stones. So it is useless to other class. The player can buy from the store and rare outside the town unless they are human enemy. That I thank @gstv87 for the ideas. My meme: the monsters are rocking as their foods. Not it is not!

Ok, I will increase to make it is 20% stronger than normal spells to rewards their clicking the keyboards. Also they have access to blood magic. Just like my archer class has access to trap skills. There is different combat system out there. I am just used the basic turn system.
 
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