Ultima01

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I have no idea if this is where I would post something like this, but here we go.  Please move it if there is a better place for it.


So I had a potentially-awesome, yet also potentially-stupid idea of combining the following battle system concepts:


Press Turn System (circa Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne and beyond)

  • Your party and enemies alternate turns
  • Each side gets a number of total actions depending on how many members that side has

    You can pass a turn to an ally for the cost of half an action
  • Half-actions are treated as full actions if only the half-action remains

[*]Hitting an elemental weakness, or scoring a critical hit, earns you back one half-action

[*]Hitting an elemental resistance to any degree, or missing your attack, costs you an additional action on top of the one you consumed

  • Hitting the enemy with an element they absorb or reflect would instantly give the enemy their part of the turn cycle

Active Time System (circa Final Fantasy IV and beyond)

  • Each character has an ATB gauge that fills up over time from 0

    The ATB gauge's fill rate depends on your AGI
  • Each character only gets an action if and when their ATB gauge is full
  • Each action consumes the whole ATB gauge, unless otherwise specified, assuming the system allows for that
  • Turn-denial statuses like Paralysis prevent the ATB gauge from filling

The end result of this union of concepts looks something like this.  I call it...


Press Time System (I know, I'm not very creative with names.  So sue me)

  • Each character would have an PTB gauge that fills up over time, starting at half-full

    The PTB gauge's fill rate depends on your AGI
  • Each action consumes half of the PTB gauge, rather than the whole thing
  • Hitting an elemental weakness, or scoring a critical hit, would earn back half of the PTB you consumed

    Having BOTH happen would earn back all of the PTB you consumed

[*]Hitting an elemental resistance to any degree, or missing an attack, would cost you an additional half of the PTB you consumed

  • Having BOTH happen would completely empty your PTB gauge
  • Hitting the enemy with an element they absorb or reflect would instantly fill their PTB gauge to full

[*]Turn-denial statuses like Paralysis would prevent the PTB gauge from filling

I am unsure how I would even begin to implement something like this.  I would wager that Yanfly's ATB plugin is a good starting point (despite no longer being supported by Yanfly >_> ) for its amazing ability to wait for the player, but I would likely need a lot of Lunatic Mode by skill for what I have in mind. (It's not going into my current project, for sure - :|  I'm way too far into that one right now, so it's relegated to an idea for my next project)


What do you guys think about something like this?  Does this battle system sound like it could work if implemented?  Or has combining two functional battle system concepts with completely different strategic concerns unnecessarily overcomplicated things?
 

Sanct

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I don't think it's the battle system that works, if you want a battle system to work you need to have a variety of skills that are all interesting, enemies that use the battle system to an extent. You can't judge a battle system if you don't even have anything for it other than an idea.


That being said the battle system feels like it would be very functional and you should at least try messing around with it at one point and see if you can make something fun.
 

Neo Soul Gamer

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Press Turn is one of my favorite battle systems. And after reading a lot of feedback from fellow RPG enthusiasts, it's definitely among the list of favorites. Problem is, you'll need to request a plugin.


But what if you just took those ideas and tweaked it a bit? Maybe it doesn't have to be a complete replica of the Press Turn Battle System. Take it, break it down, and build it back up on top of the Default Turn Battle System. That's what I did. I'm honestly not sure if I have something functional, but to me, the concept seems neat.

  • What if instead of completely missing a turn when struck with a weak element, you instead lose something else. Another type of resource, perhaps?
  • What if instead of gaining a turn when striking an elemental weakness/with a critical attack, there's another effect that gives you the advantage in battle.

There are more ways to add layers of strategy. Just have to use a bit of creativity to at least make your battle system a little more original. Yanfly's Tips & Tricks are amazing for this kinda thing.
 

Basileus

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This would still just be an ATB System. Even the Final Fantasy games toy with the ATB gauge with statuses like Slow and Haste, and a lot of RPGs that use similar systems have means to either speed the gauge up or slow it down - like choosing between "light" actions that are weaker but get you another action faster or "heavy" actions that are more powerful but slow the gauge. 


There is zero reason to have the gauge start in the middle. It causes the gauge to jump around more wildly and can create problems if skills or effects alter the speed at which the bars fill on top of changing where they start. There is really nothing that can be gained from doing this that cannot be done simply by always starting at 0 and just changing the rate at which the bar fills. This would also make it much easier to handle cumulative effects such as missing an attack and being struck by a Slow effect afterward since each one can take effect instantly. Otherwise you would have some severe problems with things like enemy skills that cause the player's ATB bar to start lower than normal, but which cannot actually take effect until after the player's next action since the bar is already filling - this can easily make enemies pathetically weak since their skills won't take effect until it is too late. If you set the bar back as it is filling to allow enemy skills to function, then you run the risk of multiple effects causing the bar to start from a negative amount, which could either disable the player's character from taking actions entirely or just crash the game altogether. It is far, far, far easier to just let the gauge go from 0 to 100 and only modify the speed at which it gets there.


Functionally, this would be just like other ATB System games but with more slow and haste effects than is typical. The real challenge would be the design enemies and bosses that can actually make use of this system - just making a system to regulate the player's actions is not enough, you NEED to create enemies and compositions that suit the combat system and take advantage of it to create any kind of challenge for the player. Figure out what you want your enemies to do first. Determine how you want them to delay the player's actions and speed up their own, what kinds of skills they will need to do these things, and their "tricks" for dealing and negating damage. Your enemies need to have a purpose. If you want long-term resource management to be a challenge, then the enemies need ways to force the player to expend those resources before they die. If you want each battle to be an isolated challenge, then the enemies need to be fighting to win and have strategies that can legitimately threaten the player. Once you have that sorted out you can determine what skills and actions the player can take the counter these strategies and emerge victorious, as well as how badly you want to punish them for not following the "optimal" strategy. 


Once you have enemies and enemy troop compositions that you want, enemy skills to meet their objectives as obstacles to the player, player skills to counter the enemy and overcome those obstacles, and the overall purpose and goals of combat in your game well defined, then you can look into turn and action management to see if the combat system you were planning on is actually meeting your needs or not.
 

Wavelength

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Hey, at least you didn't call it Active Turn System. :p


Honestly I don't think this would be hard to implement.  Like you said - start with Yanfly's ATB system and then just add in a few methods when Weakness/Resistance/Criticals happen that give back or take away 25% of the max gauge.  You could probably commission this for under $100 - maybe a lot less.


As far as judging this kind of system from a mechanical standpoint, it sounds fine to me - it's basically an ATB system with a few extra tactical features that give rewards for exploiting weaknesses, etc., beyond just extra damage.  I would be very careful about penalizing the player for Missing - this is already annoying enough already.  If setting up evasion and misses is an important part of the strategy in your battle system, and can be heavily and directly influenced by the player, then go for it; it could be great.  But if Missing is just something that "happens" to characters and enemies 10% of the time in battle, don't penalize the player twice (failing the action, and then also losing more of their ATB gauge).  This feels bad to the player.  You could make it a one-sided mechanic (that only benefits players, not enemies) if you still want to reward the player for evading an action.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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The real challenge would be the design enemies and bosses that can actually make use of this system - just making a system to regulate the player's actions is not enough, you NEED to create enemies and compositions that suit the combat system and take advantage of it to create any kind of challenge for the player.



This...


Any battle system is only good if all other things that relate to it makes sense. Enemies, Skills, Equipment, Items etc. 


To be honest, it's quite hard to determine if a battle system is good until you actually played it. Battle systems after all are meant to be experienced.
 

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