Being a good friend to yourself

Countyoungblood

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I believe one of the most valuable things I could ever learn would be how to convey this one ideal. Ive tried multiple times with multiple people to various degrees of success but I still dont have enough magic for an efficient spell. If youre interested then follow me down this rabbit hole and see what you see.

Think of your best friend going through something difficult.

What if theyre struggling ? What do you say to them about it? Do you focus on how bad things are and how much worse they will get?

What if they want to do something dangerous? Do you point out what might go wrong and steer them away from illogical risks? Emotions could be clouding their judgement.

What if they feel helpless? Hopeless? Do you work to think of a path? Do you assure them there is a way?

How about if they dont believe in themselves? Would you tell them why they can suceed? Would they believe you? Credibility comes from proving accuracy. For real assurance be realistic.

How can you be realiatic and supportive/optimistic at the same time? Realism and optimism arent dichotomies.
Realism isnt pessimism. Having a deflated or inflated opinion of your own capability is equally delusional and not a source of real confidence.

How then do you prime your friend for sucess? How do you kindle the fire of their souls? Carefully. Gently. With positive realism. Positive reinforcement. The ugly of the world will be there regardless of if we sit and complain about it and unless its about to jump out and attack what point is there in giving it attention? Trim the fat and simplify your communications with your friend to the task at hand and how it can be done. Talk about the good.

Why are we better to our friends than we are to ourselves? Would your life be better if you were friends with yourself? Would you coach yourself better? Would you guide yourself better? If you became a better version of yourself what more could you do for everyone you love?
 

MushroomCake28

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Bold of you to assume I have friends, let alone a best friend.

Jokes aside, I'm personally more of a rational person and problem solved. My inter personal skills and emotional skills aren't that high to be honest, and all I'll be able to do is to give them practical advice (step by step) on how to solve their problem in the most efficient way. Emotional encouragement and support isn't really my strength.

Why are we better to our friends than we are to ourselves?
That is only true with agreeable people, which is still 50% of the population lol. I highly doubt the psychopathic Wall Street trader cares more about others than himself for instance (he'd probably score low on the agreeable scale in the OCEAN personality test).

I've moved this thread to General Lounge. Please be sure to post your threads in the correct forum next time. Thank you.

 

Countyoungblood

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Bold of you to assume I have friends, let alone a best friend.

Jokes aside, I'm personally more of a rational person and problem solved. My inter personal skills and emotional skills aren't that high to be honest, and all I'll be able to do is to give them practical advice (step by step) on how to solve their problem in the most efficient way. Emotional encouragement and support isn't really my strength.


That is only true with agreeable people, which is still 50% of the population lol. I highly doubt the psychopathic Wall Street trader cares more about others than himself for instance (he'd probably score low on the agreeable scale in the OCEAN personality test).
[MOVE]General Lounge[/MOVE]

It may not be one of your strengths yet but wisdom is based in logic. Emotional support is just a skill like anything else it can be learned practiced and improved. You certainly cant if you convince yourself you cant because you wont. Yet logically remove that barrier. What prevents you? Skill? Study it..watch others..experience? Practice.

Friends or not pick your favorite person and imagine being cabable of making their lives better.
 

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This is a fascinating topic! Which is a two-edged sword as I was literally databasing in my game and this pulled me away from it lol.

I have intensely hated myself from the youngest age I can recall. I have also thought I was extraordinarily talented since a very young age. These things aren't mutually exclusive: I'm an extraordinarily talented writer but a piece of **** human being. I've asked multiple shrinks over the years whether this combination of extreme arrogance and extreme insecurity is indicative of either or neither or both and the answer seems to pretty consistently be "insecurity".

That said, I don't let any of that stop me from treating myself well!

Right now, for instance, I've got a delicious supper (this is actually an early dinner for me yes I know it's 10:55PM in my time zone fight me) of "Spicy Garlic Boneless Wings a la me" in the oven. My dog is the love of my life and an adorable sweet baby and I'd literally take a bullet to him but he is an incredibly annoying mooch when people food comes into play, esp. something he's been smelling cooking for half an hour thinking the entire time that OF COURSE must be for him, because it's food, so I'm going to do myself a favor and lure him into the bedroom and shut him in there so I can have dinner in peace. I've already let myself take 3-4 really good hits of really good weed tonight and I'm about to open a bottle of white wine on the occasion of just because I can. After dinner, I will take my dog out which is more for his benefit than mine, but I'll still feel good about it, which is actually maybe my stream of consciousness collided with the OP's rhetorical question:

Being kind to others feels good.

Anyway, I'm nicer to my dog than my friends and my friends than to me (at least I think so) and I certainly care about my dog more than virtually any human being, but as indicated above, I do still pamper myself. While I walk my dog I'm going to smoke a joint and listen to some really good music as is my solitary tradition of a Saturday evening since I became too much of a broke-ass-biatch to afford to go out.

Once I get too much of that weed in me, I'm way too nice to myself, a lot of the time. Tonight I might even let myself play videogames for fun instead of work on making my own! In general, I'm pretty soft on me.
 

Countyoungblood

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This is a fascinating topic! Which is a two-edged sword as I was literally databasing in my game and this pulled me away from it lol.

I have intensely hated myself from the youngest age I can recall. I have also thought I was extraordinarily talented since a very young age. These things aren't mutually exclusive: I'm an extraordinarily talented writer but a piece of **** human being. I've asked multiple shrinks over the years whether this combination of extreme arrogance and extreme insecurity is indicative of either or neither or both and the answer seems to pretty consistently be "insecurity".

That said, I don't let any of that stop me from treating myself well!

Right now, for instance, I've got a delicious supper (this is actually an early dinner for me yes I know it's 10:55PM in my time zone fight me) of "Spicy Garlic Boneless Wings a la me" in the oven. My dog is the love of my life and an adorable sweet baby and I'd literally take a bullet to him but he is an incredibly annoying mooch when people food comes into play, esp. something he's been smelling cooking for half an hour thinking the entire time that OF COURSE must be for him, because it's food, so I'm going to do myself a favor and lure him into the bedroom and shut him in there so I can have dinner in peace. I've already let myself take 3-4 really good hits of really good weed tonight and I'm about to open a bottle of white wine on the occasion of just because I can. After dinner, I will take my dog out which is more for his benefit than mine, but I'll still feel good about it, which is actually maybe my stream of consciousness collided with the OP's rhetorical question:

Being kind to others feels good.

Anyway, I'm nicer to my dog than my friends and my friends than to me (at least I think so) and I certainly care about my dog more than virtually any human being, but as indicated above, I do still pamper myself. While I walk my dog I'm going to smoke a joint and listen to some really good music as is my solitary tradition of a Saturday evening since I became too much of a broke-ass-biatch to afford to go out.

Once I get too much of that weed in me, I'm way too nice to myself, a lot of the time. Tonight I might even let myself play videogames for fun instead of work on making my own! In general, I'm pretty soft on me.
If you were friends with someone exactly like you who lived like you do would you tell them to act any different? I think there is a clue in saying youre soft on yourself. You might read "De Brevitate Vitae" by seneca. Can find it online for free great short book.
 

MushroomCake28

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It may not be one of your strengths yet but wisdom is based in logic. Emotional support is just a skill like anything else it can be learned practiced and improved. You certainly cant if you convince yourself you cant because you wont. Yet logically remove that barrier. What prevents you? Skill? Study it..watch others..experience? Practice.

Friends or not pick your favorite person and imagine being capable of making their lives better.
Yes of course you're right, I was slightly exaggerating. But I still believe some of that has to do with personality traits more than something you can learn. You can certainly learn to adapt but someone born, or at least that has a more agreeable personality (which solidifies at around 18-21 years old) will always have that inside them. You can certainly train someone to be more assertive though (it's a real training done in psychology).

My point was more that depending on your personality you might lean more toward a certain method naturally. I can certainly try to emotionally support someone, but my instinct always scream to just fix the problem, even if it can't be done.
 

gstv87

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every time I try to be a good friend to myself, somebody comes along stating that me being a good friend to myself is egotistic, selfish, unnatural, and "that's not what you should be doing for society".

you can't even be a good friend to yourself anymore.
......because..... society, apparently.

wisdom is based in logic
nnnnnnnnnggghh...... ¯\__(ツ)__/¯
it is logical to not approach situations you don't understand.
would that make you wiser, tho?..... because if it turns out the situation was a symposium on room-temperature nuclear fusion for the near future, you just missed what could be the career choice of your life.

wisdom is based on analyzing situations..... sometimes *through* logic you get to do that, but not always.
 

Countyoungblood

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every time I try to be a good friend to myself, somebody comes along stating that me being a good friend to myself is egotistic, selfish, unnatural, and "that's not what you should be doing for society".

you can't even be a good friend to yourself anymore.
......because..... society, apparently.


nnnnnnnnnggghh...... ¯\__(ツ)__/¯
it is logical to not approach situations you don't understand.
would that make you wiser, tho?..... because if it turns out the situation was a symposium on room-temperature nuclear fusion for the near future, you just missed what could be the career choice of your life.

wisdom is based on analyzing situations..... sometimes *through* logic you get to do that, but not always.

Im not sure who told you that but its nonsense. The golden rule works the same either way. "Treat others how youd like to be treated". Or "treat yourself how youd treat others"

I dont know what type of wisdom wouldnt be based in logic. Could you describe it? Or maybe we could logically deduce? Its a big topic, maybe one of the biggest. What makes the wise man wise?

Lets google wise.

having or showing experience, knowledge, and good judgement.

Next lets mix in logic:

reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.

So using expirience knowledge and judgement the wise person discerns their course acording to what they've seen, learned... judged to be true.
 

gstv87

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reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity.
key word there being *validity*, which must be ensured.
you can't validate the statement "tomorrow will be sunny", only by observation of validity of the fact that the sun rises and sets every day, therefore assuming that after it sets today, tomorrow it will rise and that'll be it.

stating that the sun will come out tomorrow based on the fact that it did come out today after setting down yesterday, is logic.
predicting the weather based not only on the sun's cycle but also considering the wind, the geographical location, the time of year, the elevation, the proximity of bodies of water, and the amount of forestry areas, is wisdom.
 

Countyoungblood

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key word there being *validity*, which must be ensured.
you can't validate the statement "tomorrow will be sunny", only by observation of validity of the fact that the sun rises and sets every day, therefore assuming that after it sets today, tomorrow it will rise and that'll be it.

stating that the sun will come out tomorrow based on the fact that it did come out today after setting down yesterday, is logic.
predicting the weather based not only on the sun's cycle but also considering the wind, the geographical location, the time of year, the elevation, the proximity of bodies of water, and the amount of forestry areas, is wisdom.
Are these not just overlapping bits of logic? Are you sure you understand what logic means?

How did you determine these aspects of prediction? How do you ensure your measurements are accurate? Are you not using logic?

Youve given some aspects but can you give me the steps to determining the weather?
 

gstv87

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How did you determine these aspects of prediction?
meteorology?
science that studies weather?

How do you ensure your measurements are accurate?
I don't.... because that requires tools, and I don't have them.
I eyeball the fact based on my life time living on the same location and knowing the pattern of the weather.
I wouldn't be able to tell the actual temperature, but I can tell the direction of the wind by watching the trees, the humidity by smelling the air, and the pressure, simply by breathing.

Are you not using logic?
no.... I'm using science.

Youve given some aspects but can you give me the steps to determining the weather?
easy: where I live, if there's east wind after a day of north wind, there's a chance the wind will shift south, and that'll cool the air, which would be full of humidity from the sea.
therefore, if the wind holds for the next day, it'll rain.... especially if the wind picked up during the night.
however.... if it's summer, and there has indeed been north wind followed by east wind, and there are no clouds in sight, it'll be hot as hell.
when there's west wind, IF at the next day the wind shifts south, it'll be cool.
however, if it's winter, then it'll be COLD AF.
IF at that point the wind shifts east, it'll rain... because humidity from the sea cools down, and it rains.

my grandpa lived in this same location for 50 years.... was he wiser than me at predicting the weather? I don't think so.
why? because he never bothered.... and, at that time there was no internet, so he couldn't possibly have learned anything about the science behind the weather.

that's the difference between wisdom and logic.
 

Countyoungblood

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meteorology?
science that studies weather?


I don't.... because that requires tools, and I don't have them.
I eyeball the fact based on my life time living on the same location and knowing the pattern of the weather.
I wouldn't be able to tell the actual temperature, but I can tell the direction of the wind by watching the trees, the humidity by smelling the air, and the pressure, simply by breathing.


no.... I'm using science.


easy: where I live, if there's east wind after a day of north wind, there's a chance the wind will shift south, and that'll cool the air, which would be full of humidity from the sea.
therefore, if the wind holds for the next day, it'll rain.... especially if the wind picked up during the night.
however.... if it's summer, and there has indeed been north wind followed by east wind, and there are no clouds in sight, it'll be hot as hell.
when there's west wind, IF at the next day the wind shifts south, it'll be cool.
however, if it's winter, then it'll be COLD AF.
IF at that point the wind shifts east, it'll rain... because humidity from the sea cools down, and it rains.

my grandpa lived in this same location for 50 years.... was he wiser than me at predicting the weather? I don't think so.
why? because he never bothered.... and, at that time there was no internet, so he couldn't possibly have learned anything about the science behind the weather.

that's the difference between wisdom and logic.
Honestly, I dont see a distinction.

Science is based on logic...systematic controlled measurement and expirimentation to obtain useful truths.. sounds logical.Your deductions are literally only logical arguments. I cant say youve proven anything to me but maybe we should just agree to disagree and return to the topic.
 

Larry Jones

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Yes, excellent topic. We “self hate” because that’s what we learned growing up (others did it to themselves and to us). However, it’s always possible to break the cycle.

@MushroomCake28 what if “agreeableness” is something people “do” when they do it, not a fixed personality trait?
 

MushroomCake28

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@Larry Jones When I talk about the agreeable trait, I'm talking about the trait from the OCEAN personality model developed and currently used in psychology. Of course your mood can affect if your level of cooperation and your overall treatment of others, but your underlying trait does not change. After getting to 18-21 years old, your personality is mostly fixed and will likely never change (of course, excluding big traumatic events).

You should read on the big five personality traits if you're interested. It's some very fun stuff.
 

Larry Jones

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@Larry Jones When I talk about the agreeable trait, I'm talking about the trait from the OCEAN personality model developed and currently used in psychology. Of course your mood can affect if your level of cooperation and your overall treatment of others, but your underlying trait does not change. After getting to 18-21 years old, your personality is mostly fixed and will likely never change (of course, excluding big traumatic events).

You should read on the big five personality traits if you're interested. It's some very fun stuff.
Yeah I’ve looked at that. Our brains are neuroplastic and people can completely change their “personalities” if they want to. What people refer to when they talk about personality is actually just a collection of patterns that they “do”, not really inherent traits. If they want to do something different they can.
 

Countyoungblood

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Yeah I’ve looked at that. Our brains are neuroplastic and people can completely change their “personalities” if they want to. What people refer to when they talk about personality is actually just a collection of patterns that they “do”, not really inherent traits. If they want to do something different they can.
what is your standard for permanence? remember we deal in relatives. most likely to stay unless something weird happens could be called inherent. unless you want to be idealistic, most people are stagnant. its entirely possible to continue to grow and evolve and adapt but usually that doesn't happen. Seneca said something which along the lines of..

a lot of people stop short of wisdom from thinking they've already arrived.
 

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I hear people say s**t like "I hate myself" and I consider that a bunch of nonsense. Love others as you love yourself, for no one ever really hated themselves.

EDIT: I understand that a lot of people would disagree with this; we could talk about what I mean
 
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Nightblade50

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I be a good friend to other people like such:
Struggling - I ask them what they're struggling with and try to work along with them on the same level. Rather than do such a thing as a hug, I think logically about how to actually solve it.
Dangerous - I work more logically here than emotionally
Helpless - I show them what they have to live for
Don't believe in themselves - We discuss our strengths and weaknesses and what we each can do in life. Everyone has a strength.
Realistic - I much more lean towards being realistic than optimistic.
 

Larry Jones

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what is your standard for permanence? remember we deal in relatives. most likely to stay unless something weird happens could be called inherent. unless you want to be idealistic, most people are stagnant. its entirely possible to continue to grow and evolve and adapt but usually that doesn't happen. Seneca said something which along the lines of..

a lot of people stop short of wisdom from thinking they've already arrived.

"Most people are stagnant" - most people appear stagnant because they believe personalities are real things which are fixed when they reach adulthood. Their belief that this is the case means that they keep doing the same stuff and saying "that's just how I am".

As Heraclitus said, "you cannot step into the same river twice". Everything is constantly changing. Our atoms are constantly moving and changing. In order to keep the illusion of sameness across time we actually have to recreate that old personality concept afresh over and over again in each moment. So any time we want, we can just choose to create something else instead.
 

Countyoungblood

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"Most people are stagnant" - most people appear stagnant because they believe personalities are real things which are fixed when they reach adulthood. Their belief that this is the case means that they keep doing the same stuff and saying "that's just how I am".

As Heraclitus said, "you cannot step into the same river twice". Everything is constantly changing. Our atoms are constantly moving and changing. In order to keep the illusion of sameness across time we actually have to recreate that old personality concept afresh over and over again in each moment. So any time we want, we can just choose to create something else instead.
what you're describing is as difficult to convey as the rest of my initial topic but worth attempting to convey in simple words for a sleepy world.
 

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