Best video game battle system?

[LooseLeaf]

For future reference, I felt the need to ask what, to you, was the best battle system you've ever played in a video game?

Obviously, complex systems aren't always the best. Sometimes a game gives you too much to process at one time and you're left with a check-list you have to go through every time you want to enhance your character. Other times the game treats you like a kid and all you have to do to win half the time is mash some buttons until you reach some area of success.

So again, what was the best battle system in any video game? Turn-based, RTS, etc? And what games just didn't work? A quick explanation of why would be very helpful as well~ Thank you!

 

[optimum45]

Favorite Battle Systems

Final Fantasy 2 (4 Japan) - The core side-view RPG combat template started here, and with good reason.  The game is solid, though linear.

Chrono Trigger - Specifically in how it animates attacks and unity skills.  Schala Battle Engine emulates it, but Chrono Trigger was special.

Final Fantasy Tactics - It is still one of the finest examples of a tactical battle RPG I've played.

Bayonetta - For Action/Platform, this one comes to mind.  You would have to play this game to fully grasp it's speed and how tight the controls are.

DragonBall Z Budokai 3 - For Side View Fighting, this game is wild.  It is the single fastest game I've ever played, with extremely tight controls.  It is one of my favorite games of all time, and I'm not even fond of this game genre, or DragonBall Z in general.  That's the only reason it earns mention here.

Honorable Mention

Final Fantasy 8, because the GunBlade mechanic pretty much made that game.

Final Fantasy 6, because Final Fantasy 4 did it first.

Breath of Fire 2, because transforming into dragons is always fun.

Star Ocean The Last Hope, for re-defining what a combat archer is.  (Reimi becomes unreal.)

 

[Vox Novus]

Touch decision so I'll share two for different reasons:

-Resonance of Fate: Tri-Attack battle System: The battle system in Resonance of Fate uses a sort of turn based temporary action system. You can move a character for a limited amount during their turn in an attempt to find a better positioning in that round or to simply close the gap between an enemy. Now where things get interesting is that you can perform runs and even jump during those runs to attack from different angles such as above or from the side. Things get really interesting when you have all three of your characters perform back to back runs allowing you to do all sorts of things like sending an enemy into the air from the ground, having a character attack that enemy from above in the air and then smacking it back down multiple times into the ground, etc... There is more to how all this stuff is balanced that I'm not explaining though. Many think the system is strange or overly complex (strange maybe but I wouldn't say complex), the game doesn't really explain in missions how to maximize it to its fullest and rather wants the player to play through tutuorials in the arena on their own time to learn it. At the least the battle system is incredibly unique and memorable once you've played it.

I'm more of a fan of traditional role-playing games so the next one is probably my favorite:

-Final Fantasy X: Conditional-turn based battle system: Final fantasy X uses a variation on the traditional turn based battle where future turns are affected based on the attack being used and whether or not the character is afflicted with slow or enhanced with haste. The player can see whose turn(s) is coming up (including the enemy) and plan which action to use based on how it will effect the turn order this can create interesting scenario's. For example I know in the end-game with a more highly developed tidus I could put haste on him and use quick hit (or whatever it was called) and have him strike about 6-8 times in a row. This system also lets you plan for when you can afford to not heal and instead attack based on the enemy turn order and when you should guard or wihen you absolutely need to use a turn to heal.

Okay so I said only two but I have some honorable mentions:

-Mana Khemia: Student Alliance : Similliar to FF X with some slight tweaks.

-Star ocean series: An action battle system where you control one of three characters and try to juggle enemies in the air and cancel attacks into other attacks to make them stronger. Variations exist based on the individual game.

-Tales of Series: another action battle system similliar to the star ocean series only most entries take place on a sort of 2.5d plane, so you need to strongly pay attention to the distance between you, your enemy and the edge of the screen. Variations exist based on which specific game is being played.

-Final Fantasy 12: Uses an action system based on pre-applied gambits where it goes down and performs actions automatically based on the fufillment of conditions. You can swap to other characters to take manual control and even not use gambits if you don't want to make it more of a traditional turn based game (although at the cost of battle effeciency). Inspired by MMOrpgs.

-Final Fantasy 13 and 13-2: Has AI controlled characters where you take control of one pre-determined character before battle to act as the leader, the leader character selects moves that consume segments in a gauge and effects their max actions for one turn. The gauge then refills while the character is not acting. The player does not need to wait for the gauge to fill to full before acting allowing them to jump into the action when necessary. A more fast-paced system where there is usually action on the screen all over the place.

-Xenosaga series: A turn based system where the player stock piles boosts in order to allow a character to jump ahead in the turn order, can be used during both the enemy's turn and your own turns allowing for multiple attacks to an exposed enemy in a row or to heal and prepare before a damaging attack.

 

[Milennin]

Golden Sun's for its fast paced, flashy looking turn-based combat system in the style of old school RPGs. It's not particularly deep, but it covers all the basics very well, and looks pretty at the same time. The Djinn system allows for crazy amount of character customisation, letting you choose between a ton of different classes, all with their own skill lists and can be changed any time outside of combat.

Guild Wars 1's for its complex, real-time strategy combat system. With hundreds of skills to choose from and playing in a party of 8 characters, possibilities are almost endless. Does resource management masterfully well.

Guild Wars 2's for its fast paced, real-time combat system that works great in solo as well as group play. It does away with the traditional roles in RPG combat and it turns combat into a glorious cluster**** of chaos (this is a good thing).

 

[LostFonDrive]

Too hard to say, but for JRPGs I think Xillia 2 has my absolute favourite. It's the only game whrere I could literally fight battle after battle all day long and never get bored, the combat is THAT damn fun

 

[demonhead]

Classic Resident evil. 1,2, code veronica. I didn't like the dodging that much in 3.

I think they were heading in the right direction with Dino crisis 2. If they didn't make it so arcadey. In a survival horror those controls could work well. 

There was a light gun resident evil game called Dead aim. The light gun part sucked, but I remember the moving around to be pretty good.

I enjoyed Resident evil 4, but think it's ashame they didn't stick to the original style and keep improving it.

 

[Marston]

Depends on the genre. If is is an action battle system, Kingom Hearts grabs it. If we are talking about something else, Final Fantasy X it is.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

Gonna second Mana Khemia. Most fun I've had in a battle system ever. Visually pleasing, fun to build strategy with the swapping effects and repeating attacks. I think the animations were a strong pulling point for this one though.

Another one that I love is the Disgaea series. They just keep getting better and better. StratRPGs are my favourite in the RPG catalogue; but I LOVE how much you can do with the different systems in the disgaea series. Combo moves with people standing near you, throwing, tower attacks, magi-change, etc, etc, etc. FFT was mentioned above, and as much as I love FFT (on of my favourite games) I always got way more enjoyment out of Disgaea for that style of gameplay.

NonRPGs, yeah. Kingdom Hearts 2 and Devil May Cry 4 (specifically toying with Nero's grab and pull arm)

Edit: Forgetting DMC2 exists so much I renumbered the games I guess.

 

[L_Leite]

If we are talking about video games in general, the best battle system is the one found in the Batman: Arkham series. It is a very simple system, basically a rhythm game disguised as an action game, but it allows you to combine Batman's many gadgets and combos while demanding that the player pays attention to their surroundings and the correct timing of each button press.

As for JRPGs, Xenoblade Chronicles has my favorite battle system. It is fast-paced enough to fit an action game, but the Chain Attacks and the Monado Visions add an element of strategy to the whole thing. And the enemy level mechanic (an enemy whose level is too below the party's average will never initiate combat against the player) is something every RPG should use. There are few things worse than being forced into battles against useless level 1 bunnies when your party is already at level 50.

 

[Iavra]

One Finger Death Punch

Joking aside, probably FFX. I also got pleasent memories of a game called Baten Kaitos, which basically had you playing with a deck of cards (i recently played an old german RM2k3 game, that has a very similar system and i really liked it).

 

[Seacliff]

Some people hate it, but I loved the core idea behind Chrono Cross. You use different levels of attacks to build your element meter, and different elements can be used once your meter is high enough.

Not to mention it's easily the most attractive visually out of all the PS1 RPGs, probably due to being released near the end of the console's lifespan.

 

[Sieginder Niederlage]

[SIZE=10.5pt]That's very difficult to define.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt][/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]But you know? I just finished playing Standstill Girl and the battle system is pretty interesting.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]How does it work? You have five commands available in battle. You have more than five commands in total. And that’s not counting items, which you can only use once per battle. Add in the fact that some attacks are cast from HP, and others practically need you to “just watch” (In case you didn’t equip Guard or the Spirit Thorn skill if you have HP to spare and don’t want to Guard) for four whole turns. This limitation seems dumb, doesn’t it? It seems frustrating, doesn’t it?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I loved it. I freaking loved it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Speaking of which, who played that game?  Did anyone see “But the spell comes out of your eyes”? And recorded it?[/SIZE]

 

[JosephSeraph]

Valkyrie Profile also had a very interesting battle system, mixing combo-based action with traditional turn-based battling in an extremely effective and fun way.

The sequels emphasized more and more on the jarring contrast between combo-based action and turns, to the point the DS game is an actual Tactics game. That still features combo-based action.

Another intereting thing of Tri-Ace RPGs is that they often have in-depth character skill/customization systems that interact wonderfully with battles and with the game world. Star Ocean 2 comes to mind. Someone should base an RM script on that, there are too many craft scripts that are the same, but none that are like Star Ocea 1/2.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

If we are talking about video games in general, the best battle system is the one found in the Batman: Arkham series. It is a very simple system, basically a rhythm game disguised as an action game, but it allows you to combine Batman's many gadgets and combos while demanding that the player pays attention to their surroundings and the correct timing of each button press.

Absolutely. The best implementation by the way is actually in Shadow of Mordor though .

 

[Matchitza]

Hmmmm..... 

1. Final Fantasy X-2 - So kewl! I like the ATB.

2. Kingdom Hearts Series - Interesting battle system.. ATB too.

 

[bgillisp]

Personally, I liked the Persona 3 version of the battle system (the original). Sure some disliked the whole not being able to control your other party members, but I liked it myself. Once you set the AI algorithm to the strategy you wanted, it (99% of the time) did what you wanted it to.

I also liked Mana Khemia too. The whole ability to use the three in reserve to add on punch to an attack, or to take a hit for another was nice. Also I liked the ability to put healing type spells (and others) that hit once right away, then 3 more times over the next three turns. I'm surprised no one has written a script to allow this type of combat in RPGMaker yet.

About some of the others, and why I disagree:

Xilla 2? Seriously? I slept through that game and its battle system (and its endless grinding). But then again, I feel the Tales series is nothing but mash A and win all battles (but bosses) in under 20 seconds. Personally, I think the Tales series suffers from too many skills, and what ends up happening is I default to attack as I cannot remember what skill 77 does vs skill 75. I like Star Ocean's system better for that, as it had less skills, you assigned your skills to (easy to use) buttons and hit those buttons when you wanted to use them. Personally, I think the tales series needs to learn the KISS principal at this point in time. After all, if we made an RPGMaker game, but told people that to move left/right you have to hold SHIFT first, they would look at us like we are crazy. Well, that's what the Tales battle system does, you can only go up/down unless you hold down another button.

I also did play Resonance of Fate, and the combat system was a neat idea, but hampered by the fact that if you ever tried to move in your turn, all 7 enemies would shoot at that character and do massive damage (especially late game), so you never could position anyone. I always found it funny that the enemy could do that, but I never could take a shot at them when they moved.

So I guess my takeaway here is this: If you design a battle system, make sure that it is makes sense, is not overly complicated, and don't make your enemies cheat. Most of the systems I dislike are due to the fact that the enemies don't play by the same rules as the player.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

I'm not a fan of Xillia's battle system, but I LOVE Tales of Graces'. But then, I felt I understood the finer mechanics of that system and my character(Hubert) better and had found a play-style to exploit it. Where as Xillia I spent most of the game never FULLY catching onto how to my character of choice (Alvin), so yeah it ended up being more of an attack-button mashing blended with special foray of less than riveting combat. I've never really played any Tales game with the lead characters, so I can't really comment on how the game felt from the perspective of most people/what the game devs likely expected you to play. (However, I used way more variety in Alvin's skills. Yes, Tales games have a lot of skills - but in Xillia I actually had skills I cared about mapped to every single command. True, most existed purely for comboing w/ Millia but whatever.)

I think the reason for so many skills isn't "we want you to use them all" but more "we want you to find the ones that match best with your play-style." Again, I sucked at Xillia, but Graces (for Hubert) I could clearly see at least two or three different play-styles (mostly the choice between short or close ranged, but also AOE versus single hit. slow VS fast idk I played him fast AOE short ranged mostly) in mind from his skill selection - there was a lot of stuff I didn't use, sure, but that's because they didn't match me. I'm sure the skills I snubbed might have been useful to someone else.

Side stepping in Graces also made free-run pretty moot if you got good enough at it. (wow I should have mentioned ToG in my first post, but it slipped my mind how much I loved that system)

 

[LostFonDrive]

Xilla 2? Seriously? I slept through that game and its battle system (and its endless grinding). But then again, I feel the Tales series is nothing but mash A and win all battles (but bosses) in under 20 seconds. Personally, I think the Tales series suffers from too many skills, and what ends up happening is I default to attack as I cannot remember what skill 77 does vs skill 75. I like Star Ocean's system better for that, as it had less skills, you assigned your skills to (easy to use) buttons and hit those buttons when you wanted to use them. 

You're doing it wrong or playing on the easiest difficulty. Xillia 2 has a lot of technical depth and is incredibly satisfying to master, especially as Ludger where you have access to three weapon types on the fly, even mid-combo.

There really aren't THAT many artes, and the point is it's all about how well you can combo them together. You simply can't mash attack or throw about random artes because you will get murdered due to the combo mechanics - you won't be hitstunning enemies properly and your damage output will be terrible. I think you don't get ENOUGH - usually you only have 16 hotkeys. Xillia 2 techincally had like 48 though because of weapon-switch.

 Personally, I think the tales series needs to learn the KISS principal at this point in time. After all, if we made an RPGMaker game, but told people that to move left/right you have to hold SHIFT first, they would look at us like we are crazy. Well, that's what the Tales battle system does, you can only go up/down unless you hold down another button.

It's a Linear Motion Battle system - this is not an issue at all, you're simply expecting the combat to be something it's not. 

 

I think the reason for so many skills isn't "we want you to use them all" but more "we want you to find the ones that match best with your play-style." Again, I sucked at Xillia, but Graces (for Hubert) I could clearly see at least two or three different play-styles (mostly the choice between short or close ranged, but also AOE versus single hit. slow VS fast idk I played him fast AOE short ranged mostly) in mind from his skill selection - there was a lot of stuff I didn't use, sure, but that's because they didn't match me. I'm sure the skills I snubbed might have been useful to someone else.

Absolutely this.

I'm not a fan of Xillia's battle system, but I LOVE Tales of Graces'. But then, I felt I understood the finer mechanics of that system and my character(Hubert) better and had found a play-style to exploit it. Where as Xillia I spent most of the game never FULLY catching onto how to my character of choice (Alvin), so yeah it ended up being more of an attack-button mashing blended with special foray of less than riveting combat. I've never really played any Tales game with the lead characters, so I can't really comment on how the game felt from the perspective of most people/what the game devs likely expected you to play. (However, I used way more variety in Alvin's skills. Yes, Tales games have a lot of skills - but in Xillia I actually had skills I cared about mapped to every single command. True, most existed purely for comboing w/ Millia but whatever.)

Side stepping in Graces also made free-run pretty moot if you got good enough at it. (wow I should have mentioned ToG in my first post, but it slipped my mind how much I loved that system)

I also love Graces' but there are some areas I prefer Xillia 2. 

Like you say, Free Run was worthless in Graces.

I didn't like the A-arte tree because it restricted the amount of artes you had to use at any time, 16 should be the absolute minimum, with no arte tree progression.

Also, no air-combos

I also didn't like how Accuracy and Evasion were the only stats in the entire game that meant anything - even the best player on Earth would have trouble on harder bosses if their Accuracy wasn't high enough to hitstun anything, that just isn't fair.

The weakness system was also far better in Xillia 2 - Graces' didn't even make sense. I mean, "Insect"? "Human"? What? Un-intuitive, and you basically had to memorize it all or keep checking the attributes for your moves

 

[Scythuz]

I've got a few candidates:

Dark Souls 2 - When you get really in-depth with the different weapon movesets the combat in this makes for a pretty darn engaging experience.

Chivalry Deadliest Warrior: This game probably has the best first person melee combat I've ever seen.  It's visceral, has a serious sense of connect and features very solid hit detection.

Pillars of Eternity: The amount of layers it has to it is pretty astounding and I love how strategic you can get, pretty steep learning curve though.

 

[bgillisp]

Normal difficulty. I finally did drop it to easy in Chapter 14 or 15 as I was so bored though and just wanted to see the end. The problem was I could, as stated, win most or all random fights in 20 seconds or so with just attack spam. There never was a need to use an art. Now boss battles were different, but the random battles were just too...meh?

Now, I'll give you the whole "Find the combos that work for you", as that is a good idea in practice. But maybe the game should have suggested a couple starting ones for beginners? I didn't play this game having played every Tales game in existence to this point so I had no idea of any good ones. Just dumping 70+ arts (or however many it had) on the player and hoping they figure it out is still bad design, no matter how you cut it. If we did it, we would be ripped for bad design, so why does Tales get a free pass?

My other issue was how much an HP sponge the bosses were in that game, but that is probably off topic so I'll just say that and drop it.