Best video game battle system?

LostFonDrive

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
173
Reaction score
52
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Now, I'll give you the whole "Find the combos that work for you", as that is a good idea in practice. But maybe the game should have suggested a couple starting ones for beginners? I didn't play this game having played every Tales game in existence to this point so I had no idea of any good ones. Just dumping 70+ arts (or however many it had) on the player and hoping they figure it out is still bad design, no matter how you cut it. If we did it, we would be ripped for bad design, so why does Tales get a free pass?
But it's not like you get given all artes from the start, and no tutorials or time to learn anything... You just gotta experiment with the mechanics, such as "knockdown", "off the ground" (reverses "knockdown"), "lift" (into the air), mid-air artes, link-artes etc. and find which mesh together well.

Every Tales game plays differently enough that you're not expected to rely on past arte knowledge anyway.

My other issue was how much an HP sponge the bosses were in that game, but that is probably off topic so I'll just say that and drop it.
I honestly don't mean this in an insulting way, but playing on Normal/Easy probably meant you didn't learn how to properly use the weakness system, especially if you're talking about being able to mash attack. 

There's a damage multiplier which you're supposed to constantly be using to deal big damage by exploiting the weakness system, without it the bosses certainly do have tons of HP and would take a long time. Especially on higher difficulties, it would be insane. Although the damage multiplier bonus actually goes up on higher difficulties (IIRC), which is nice.
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,522
Reaction score
14,255
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Yes, I did miss the damage multiplier. However, I feel that was not well explained. Or maybe it was introduced in that death by tutorial section in the beginning (we had topics on how not to start your game in other threads) and I just overlooked it in the 20+ other things I was supposed to learn at the same time. Maybe it needed a more gradual introduction? Or maybe I was just so bored from endlessly grinding money that I forgot about it after a while as it didn't seem to matter for a long time.

Now here's the funny thing. I liked Tales of Xilla 1. But I hated Tales of Xilla 2. Go figure. But I think my hate is more the endless money grinding and *not* the battle mechanic as much. Maybe if I could have played that game without the crazy 20 mil debt I would have liked it too, and not overlooked something that ended up being key (the damage multiplier as you said).
 
Last edited by a moderator:

LostFonDrive

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
173
Reaction score
52
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Yes, I did miss the damage multiplier. However, I feel that was not well explained. Or maybe it was introduced in that death by tutorial section in the beginning (we had topics on how not to start your game in other threads) and I just overlooked it in the 20+ other things I was supposed to learn at the same time. Maybe it needed a more gradual introduction? Or maybe I was just so bored from endlessly grinding money that I forgot about it after a while as it didn't seem to matter for a long time.

Now here's the funny thing. I liked Tales of Xilla 1. But I hated Tales of Xilla 2. Go figure. But I think my hate is more the endless money grinding and *not* the battle mechanic as much. Maybe if I could have played that game without the crazy 20 mil debt I would have liked it too, and not overlooked something that ended up being key (the damage multiplier as you said).
Well don't get me wrong, I think the debt thing was stupid as hell, just pointing out the combat system itself was amazing IMO.

Although the Elite monsters meant you really didn't need to grind much at all since they gave you so much Gald. Some literally like 500,000 Gald.
 

bgillisp

Global Moderators
Global Mod
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
13,522
Reaction score
14,255
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
RMVXA
Agreed. Maybe if I had played the game in the course of two weeks and not four months as I got so tired of the debt system that I literally stopped playing for a while (which is also probably why I forgot about the damage multiplier). The elite monsters did help, once I was high enough level to take them on. Early game, they were not as much help.

Back to the OP now: I thought of one more battle system that I liked, but I'm not sure how many others have heard of it. Anyone remember the Gold Box games (there were 11 of them that I know of, released from 1988 - 1992)? I managed to buy those at a discount when I was younger, and I loved the tactical nature of them. Also, it seemed like (to me) that most battles were decided in the first 1 - 3 rounds, then it was just mop up duty. Personally, I like that, the ability to quickly decide the battle, not have it drag out for minutes or even hours on end, just to lose due to one mistake made on turn 50.
 

Possunen

Villager
Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2014
Messages
15
Reaction score
7
First Language
Finnish
Primarily Uses
I'm not actually sure which system I like the most, but Might and Magic: Clash of Heroes has very interesting, entertaining battle system that is quite different! More like a puzzle or something. I really love it! (Check it up, if you haven't played the game, it is really fun!) 
 

Harmill

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
295
Reaction score
131
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
I am not going to even consider any "battle systems" outside of RPGs solely because we're on an RPG Maker forum.

For me, I make two distinct categories in RPGs: real-time battle systems and turn-based. And for real-time battles, my favourite is definitely Kingdom Hearts (sure, it's camera wasn't perfect, but it didn't mar the overall combat for me), and for turn-based it is Final Fantasy X.

Kingdom Hearts had excellent enemy and boss design, and the innate mechanics and capabilities of the player made you feel really good for playing skillfully. Player positioning was huge, and so was the idea of learning the boss's attacks and how to deal with them. You can dodge roll, you can guard, you can deflect, or simply just jump out of the way, but you have a lot of ways of dealing with enemy attacks that the Tales series or Star Ocean series do not allow for the simple fact they have either no jumping at all (Star Ocean) or extremely limited jumping mechanics (Tales).

I don't buy people's argument of "but I just mashed X attack the whole time to win" for KH. The game inherently doesn't put much emphasis on things like Artes from Tales games or Battle Skills from Star Ocean. THE CORE GAMEPLAY is using your normal attack + using your gameplay space wisely + reacting to the enemy's attacks. The game doesn't ask you to be skilled in performing combos, it asks you to be skilled in other ways.

This is the distinction between KH and Tales. Tales games have horrible boss design, but the game asks you to be skilled in combo execution. Tales games give the player a high skill-cap in execution, meaning if you dedicate yourself to experimenting with a character's skillset and try to come up with a giant combo, you can do so and feel very good about it. However, as I said, their enemy and boss design is lacking severely.

So Tales boss design. I think the inherent mechanics in every Tales battle systems simply do not allow for the same level of strategy in a Tales boss fight as in a KH boss fight. Tales boss fights generally have horrible tells for their attacks, they are HP sponges, and they have no inherent way of dealing with infinite combos and so have to integrate 'Overlimit', which in my opinion, is a poor way to dealing with their problem. Boss can't be staggered? Oh, and the boss doesn't have much wind-up before his attacks? Yeah that's a poor recipe for good enemy design. I can appreciate what Xillia 2 tried to do to counteract this problem with their Elemental Weakness system -- it was a good attempt, but it still falls short. I mean, just look at the range of bosses or enemies in Kingdom Hearts. They don't have to make enemies stagger-proof because they give enemies the tools to get themselves out of infinite combos. They teleport to safety, or they do a giant back step, etc. Combo Riku in Destiny Islands too long and he falls down, and sure, you can continue to attack him while he is in this state, but he's about to perform his strongest attack at you, and so it is not smart to simply continue mashing attack on him. Wakku doesn't stagger from combos unless you stun him with his own blitzball, and then he allows you to perform one combo on him before he'll stop staggering again, but in this case, it's all about windows of opportunity to attack.

Okay, enough rambling. My main point is that the KH battle system and the Tales battle system cater to different things, and I happen to appreciate what KH does A LOT more than what Tales does. I appreciate interesting boss fights much more than simply learning complex combos, and I have a hard time excusing Tales' bad boss fights in lieu of their deep combo-based system.

And Star Ocean? Oh boy, while they are fun games, they have very little depth. When the only way to deal with Star Ocean 3's super boss's ultimate attacks is to use a Stun Bomb on them, you know you have a horribly designed attack. Seriously, each of Star Ocean 3's super boss have an ultimate attack (there is a good wind up to let you know it's coming) that HITS THE ENTIRE BATTLE FIELD AND IT WILL ONE SHOT EVERY ONE IN YOUR PARTY. So you have NO choice but to prevent the attack completely and use a Stun Bomb. Star Ocean 3's final boss has a MUCH better designed ultimate attack -- it's an attack with clear hit zones and so you can avoid it throughout careful positioning. This is a key necessity in real-time battles.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Makio-Kuta

Canadian Goose
Veteran
Joined
Jul 28, 2012
Messages
1,910
Reaction score
2,364
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Is it just me in not really thinking of Kingdom Hearts as an RPG? I find it strange to compare it with SO and tales.

I have always wondered if Tales' battle systems are continually built the way they are to keep the same linear feeling as the older side view games. That's how it's always felt to me. You're on a 3D field but largely restricted to a 2D plane away and towards the enemy. (Which clinging to an old system is a strange decision, but I've always just thought that was why. If there's one thing true about the Tales series it's their strange and faithful dedication to continue to follow their own formula over and over.)
 

trouble time

Victorious
Veteran
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
792
Reaction score
602
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
N/A
Guilty Gear Accent Core, even more so than the new Guilty Gear XrD if we're talking about any game.

For RPGs, I preferred Legend of Dragoon and Shadow Hearts. Press Turn/One More systems are fun too. I like the idea behind the Free Turn Battle system I saw from Yanfly too.
 

hian

Biggest Boss
Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
603
Reaction score
459
First Language
Norwegian
Primarily Uses
Like within all genres?

In terms of realism -

The best shooting battles in my opinion, were in the old-school Rainbow Six games. One shot, you're dead. As realistic gun-play as you can possible

get in a video game, with the exception of Operation Flashpoint, and ARMA.

Best sword-play?

Sword of The Samurai for PS2, the ultimate swordplay simulator. One proper cut, dead. Options to turn of life-bars, and customizable skill set-ups with

different stances, and the possibility of bleeding out and dying from minor cuts over time.

Best strategy?

The Total War series. Nothing beats the army strategy sessions from that series.

In terms of all out fantasy, RPGs etc. -

Devil May Cry 3 on the action/adventure side.

Syphon Filter series on the 3rd person shooting side.

Stealth Action games, Metal Gear Solid, and Tenchu 3.

RPGs hand-down Final Fantasy 10 - it literally did everything right in terms as far as non-action battle systems go.

In terms of pure brawlers fighting games -

Battle Arena Toshinden 3

Dead or Alive series

Street Fighter Series

(I would say Tekken, because I love the series for its style, characters, and pure

simple fun-factor, but I still think the game-play in and of itself is kinda broken, so it doesn't make the list this time).

Strategical RPGs -

Disgaea series (seriously, it ****s all over every other game in the genre in terms of game-play. Nothing comes close, and

I am saying that as a person who doesn't even like the series in general).

I guess that's it.
 

LostFonDrive

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Messages
173
Reaction score
52
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Strategical RPGs -

Disgaea series (seriously, it ****s all over every other game in the genre in terms of game-play. Nothing comes close, and

I am saying that as a person who doesn't even like the series in general).

I guess that's it.
Is it even better than Fire Emblem though?
 

hian

Biggest Boss
Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
603
Reaction score
459
First Language
Norwegian
Primarily Uses
Is it even better than Fire Emblem though?
Fire Emblem? I never even considered Fire Emblem to have more than average game-play within the strategy rpg genre in either case - but coming close to Disgaea? Not even by a long shot.
 

Espon

Lazy Creator
Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
1,810
Reaction score
192
First Language
Gibberish
Primarily Uses
RMMV
For turn-based games, I'd have to say the Mana Khemia games, as well as Atelier Escha & Logy and Atelier Shallie.  I love how fast-paced those games are with how they allow you to have reserve party members jump into the action at any time, either by chaining attacks together or jumping in to defend.
 

Square_art

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
272
Reaction score
114
First Language
Russian
Primarily Uses
Optimum45, FF2, are you sure? :) I've played through all of them, FF2 seems to have the worst one among FF games. We all have different tastes, but what I remember about FF2, it has a lot of great ideas in the gameplay, but lack of implementation and planning. For example, idea to have a system without levels was very unique and good - you use physical attacks in the battle, strength will be increased, you use magic, magic will be increased, you lose current HP, your max HP will be increased. Generally the system was ok for physical classes. But the magic system was completely ruined. You need to use 800 times (!) a spell to reach the max level. Spells as Haste misses your characters during first 400 casts :) And the game supposed to be completed in about 30 hours... However, we all have different tastes, some people might like that system very much. I wonder what others think, who played that game?

There are many nice and unique battle systems. My favourite are FF7, FF9, FF10, FF13-2, FFT, FFTA-2, Heroes of might and magic (all), Parasite Eve, and of course, Valkyrie Profile
 

orochii

Abomination of life, or life itself.
Veteran
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
652
Reaction score
364
First Language
Spanish
I like Live a Live's battle system. There is a 7x7 grid, where your party and the enemies move. Each move is a turn, and each action consumes an amount of turns (either charging or as cooldown). It's a little unfair because enemies often waste turns just changing their facing direction, so sometimes you can get some free hits (more if you stick to abilities that make them change direction at random).

Since the action is made on a grid, every ability has a different range, or may I say different shape? Nevermind, it's pretty good, because it makes you consider using different abilities. There is no "normal attack" option (something I've been using in my game since then), and all skills are free, their only costs or restrictions are cooldown, charging time and range. For example, a certain character has a pretty strong skill, but its range is literally one square to the left and one to the right, and uses several turns to charge before its execution, making you gamble, because monsters tend to have skills that move your character away. Also there is a particular skill that's only useable once per battle though, and it's from my favourite character, it hits really hard, it's kind of slow to execute, but has a nice range.

Live a Live is probably my favourite game, and it's not only because of its battle system, which I enjoyed a lot.

tl;dr Make more games like Live a Live SquareEnix!
 

That Odd One

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2015
Messages
91
Reaction score
10
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
"The Last Story" the battle system is like none other, I love it so much, its like an ABS with more awesome stuff, and...I can't leave reviews :p
 

hian

Biggest Boss
Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
603
Reaction score
459
First Language
Norwegian
Primarily Uses
"The Last Story" the battle system is like none other, I love it so much, its like an ABS with more awesome stuff, and...I can't leave reviews :p
The Last Story was fantastic. It also perfectly explained to me why I no longer like Final Fantasy by identifying the two strongest


most influential factors in making a game I enjoy -


Sakaguchi and Uemtasu. Without those two, no FF game is really an FF game - just a shell pretending to be one.


As you say, the battle system was awesome. As was pretty much everything else about the game - like the writing, the constant


banter between the cast during game-play, the color-edit options, and the music.
 

Braydon

Veteran
Veteran
Joined
Jun 6, 2014
Messages
33
Reaction score
2
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Megaman Battle Network. Don't really know how to explain it to someone who hasn't seen it though, basically every encounter takes place in a battle field of 6x3 tiles, generally 3x3 are yours and 3x3 are enemy but there are ways to steal area, anyway you have to maneuver around your little box and shoot attacks back and forth super fast.

Probably best if you just look it up if your curious.
 

orochii

Abomination of life, or life itself.
Veteran
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
652
Reaction score
364
First Language
Spanish
The Last Story was fantastic. It also perfectly explained to me why I no longer like Final Fantasy by identifying the two strongest

most influential factors in making a game I enjoy -

Sakaguchi and Uemtasu. Without those two, no FF game is really an FF game - just a shell pretending to be one.

As you say, the battle system was awesome. As was pretty much everything else about the game - like the writing, the constant

banter between the cast during game-play, the color-edit options, and the music.
Hironobu Sakaguchi, Uematsu Nobuo AND Yoshitaka Amano for me :'D. As for Last Story, dammit, I have to play it! My brother had it on X360, and I never cared to play it. Same with Resonance of Fate, though I must say I lost interest on this one because of reasons.

Another game I love for its battles is Romancing SaGa. Damn, I always end up talking about my love for these games. Why else would I make a battle system script for RMXP? I love the stat progression, the LP system, the way you learn skills, heck, I love everything from it! And I love more than its battle system.

It's not a very complicated battle system, it's actually pretty simple. And all it needs from you is to battle, battle and battle. This ends up feeling like grinding. But the fact is that ANY battle has the same value as any other, as you don't gain levels, you gain stats. Some people say it's like Final Fantasy 2, but fixed. And that's something that makes me like it more, because FF2nes is a frustrated, unrequited love of mine </3.

YES! I love Final Fantasy 2! The one from NES! I've played it several times already (and still get lost from time to time "orz). And I enjoy it! I love killing my party members! Only thing I hate to death are undeads and Stunners.

I NEED to play SaGa Frontier, by the way, I will never ever forget such a wonderful masterpiece <3.

Romancing SaGa 3 introduced some new features to battles like Formation Skills. And these battles are the flashiest thing in SNES! Fights on cars, on flying dragons... these things are cool as Frick! FF6 is like a nut, and RomaSaGa3 is like a nut with steroids (?)! In terms of flashy-ness (?).

I'm sorry, I love the SaGa series "orz.
 

AceTheMad

Village Madman
Veteran
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
224
Reaction score
70
First Language
English
Primarily Uses
Xenoblade Chronicles. Hands down.
 

hian

Biggest Boss
Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
603
Reaction score
459
First Language
Norwegian
Primarily Uses
Hironobu Sakaguchi, Uematsu Nobuo AND Yoshitaka Amano for me :'D. As for Last Story, dammit, I have to play it! My brother had it on X360, and I never cared to play it.
I think you're confusing it with Lost Odyssey, because The Last Story was only released for the Wii =P
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Latest Threads

Latest Posts

Latest Profile Posts

Couple hours of work. Might use in my game as a secret find or something. Not sure. Fancy though no? :D
Holy stink, where have I been? Well, I started my temporary job this week. So less time to spend on game design... :(
Cartoonier cloud cover that better fits the art style, as well as (slightly) improved blending/fading... fading clouds when there are larger patterns is still somewhat abrupt for some reason.
Do you Find Tilesetting or Looking for Tilesets/Plugins more fun? Personally I like making my tileset for my Game (Cretaceous Park TM) xD
How many parameters is 'too many'??

Forum statistics

Threads
105,865
Messages
1,017,059
Members
137,575
Latest member
akekaphol101
Top