BG music with lyrics - good idea or bad?

Ashton

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This is something I'm playing with. Usually background music is symphonic, but movies often use lyrical music (especially when there's no other sound going on in the background) and I recently played a video game that implemented it and did fairly well.

My question is: Do you think it's too much of a distraction to have BG music that's lyrical or can it enhance the experience?

(NOTE: I am NOT asking anything about using © music, I am only asking opinions about the BG music having singing in it)
 
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I like this idea. I would say nothing too heavy lyrical wise with a good amount of just music by itself, but I think if you got the right sort of song for something it would be good. so lon as the song itself didn't overpower what you were trying to do with the game, which can happen sometimes.

I'd steer away from it in battle scenes, but for touching slow scenes, or motivitaional scenes I do think it would work rather well.
 

Curia Chasea

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The only thing you should consider when putting in lyrics is Audio Clutter. If your game has a lot of characters TALKING (as in - you have audio files of them playing), while gun shots are fired everywhere, explosions wrecking the map and enemy machines screeching mad ALL AT THE SAME TIME -> Lyrics might be a bad idea. Otherwise - the scene you are in matters NOT. Games heavy on battle and spectacle use Lyrics in their BGMs and it works splendid. 

The standard RPG Maker audio will not clash with your music however. So you are probably fine, unless you are planning to use (for some reason) lots of sounds and people chatting audibly in the background. Then you should rethink the idea. 
 

Sharm

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I think it could work as long as the sound is balanced there and it's only done in places where I'm not required to read. I can't read and listen to music with lyrics at the same time.
 

Solo

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Lyrical music is great for credits themes. :D
 

Eschaton

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Lyrics during gameplay would not only be distracting, but if they are in a language that the player doesn't speak, they could be alienating.

Now, there are some exceptions.  It's a JRPG example, but the Gapra Whitewood in FFXIII had a BGM with lyrics in what would best be described as "gibberish" even by the Japanese.  They didn't distract me, I think because they were understated and soft.  The rest of the music was simple and elegant with steady, soft percussion and strings.  Most of the melody came from the vocals.

However, in the same game, the Sunleth Waterscape.  Sure, YMMV, but I thought the singing in English (which is my only language) was distracting enough.  That level was full of things I wouldn't want a roommate to talk in on.

Metal Gear Solid Peace Walker.  I was fine until the final boss, which was accompanied by a track with Japanese singing (even in the US version).  Upon hearing the music, I was immediately alienated so much that I couldn't finish.  MGSPW takes place in the Caribbean during the Cold War, with American and Latin American characters and a few minor characters from the Soviet Union.  The character who was the final boss was Costa Rican.  Japansese lyrics have no place in the story, I don't care who developed the game.

Moral of the story, mind the "audio clutter," mentioned by Curia Chasea, don't pick a language for your lyrics that could alienate your player, and finally, songs with lyrics have to have a place in your setting.
 

Ashton

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Thank you all for the feedback. I'm thinking right now that it would be best saved for very special occasions and not normal BG music (though I'm thinking of using one for the Boss Battles ala Blue Dragon (I know, 95% of you probably hated Blue Dragon, it's my personal opinion and I LOVED how boss battled (which were reasonably rare) played the lyrical song "staring down eternity") Though I'll probably fade out the vocal track a little so it's not as distracting.

Lyrical music is great for credits themes. :D
Oh, absolutely. I'm no question going to have a vocal track over the intro animation (provided I can make one good enough to use - FLASH is not my strongest point --- and by "intro" I mean title-screen, not the cutscene after you choose "new game" and the gameplay starts) and over the credits.
 
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Chaos Avian

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Hmmm, lyrics can work if you ask me. I actually loved the boss battle theme in Blue Dragon myself, but I think the better examples are the Ar Tonelico series (absolutely AMAZING music~) as well as Persona 3 and 4 battle themes. Both of which are HEAVILY voice acted. Obviously the mood of your story has to fit with the music you use but I think those games are good examples to go by. Ar Tonelico uses a fictional language or Japanese and Persona is done in English.

However, in the same game, the Sunleth Waterscape.  Sure, YMMV, but I thought the singing in English (which is my only language) was distracting enough.  That level was full of things I wouldn't want a roommate to talk in on.
I have to admit, though a very beautiful song, it did feel awkward and out of place. An instrumental of that in-game would have been fine.

But yeah, here's a few tracks from the games I mentioned.

 

Harmill

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I think it would depend on the scene. It's very common for opening cutscenes or that intro trailer that occurs before the Main Menu to have a catchy song with or without lyrics. Most of the time, I actually prefer that it's in a language I do NOT understand - it's more distracting and less appealing to me if it's in English (there are exceptions - I really liked Simple and Clean in Kingdom Hearts).

The best examples that come to mind for me would be:

1. The opening trailer for Suikoden III




2. The song "Godsibb" in Xenosaga III. This plays in a cutscene where one of the villains explains his motives and goals. It's one of my favourite songs <3





When I first heard the Main Menu music from Dragon's Dogma, I came away with a feeling that I wish it didn't have lyrics. The song is in English, and it's a great and catchy song, but I enjoyed the tune of it more than what the lyrics brought to it.

I can't really think of any other examples where a song that plays during a dungeon or cutscene, or battle has lyrics in it. Everything I think of seems to be an opening cutscene of sorts.
 
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hiromu656

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I also thought of Persona 3 and specifically Persona 4. One of the many things I feel these games do right is with their music. Agreeing with the idea that audio clutter is not good, lyrics can create a big problem when they clash with multiple sounds or even in game objectives. In Persona 4, there's a song called "Heartbeat, Heartbreak", but it will usually only play while you're in the game's Overworld/Zones of the game's Hub City, there are very catchy lyrics to the song and I would always find myself singing along to them when I played. While obviously distracting, it can distract you from some of a game's more tedious sections (the Hub City is used to run around, shop and see NPCs for the most part).

Lyrical music during battle scenes can create the same effect, where you're grinding for long periods of time, a catchy or memorable song can keep you going (lyrics or no lyrics). I guess what I'm saying is distractions aren't always a bad thing? If I caught myself singing along to a track while trying to perform a difficult puzzle, on the other hand, that would be a bad distraction.

One thing that many games do with their more memorable/iconic themes is if the song has lyrics to it, there is also a version of the song without lyrics, or an extended version where the lyrics come on later into the piece. That way you can have your signature theme playing and adjust the version of it to fit the current scene or mood.
 
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Ralpf

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I don't think FFVII would have been the same without 'One Winged Angel'. You wouldn't want lyrical music as a constant thing, but in an important scene or battle it can be great, if done well.

Personnally, I would rather any singing not be in a language I understand, unless the game is set in the real world.
 

Diretooth

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In cutscenes, the voices would potentially detract from the dialogue and would have to be muted. In the case of voice acting, this would be doubly so. In battle, go for it.
 

Clord

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It works absolutely well. Especially when game is reaching its climax.


For the love of God however, don't make it too loud. It's a bad thing when gamer needs to adjust their volume settings during the climax. Your One Winged Angel or whatever will still be appreciated without making ears to bleed.
 
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Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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Depends on where the BGM will play, if it's on cinematic cutscenes with little to no character voices, then it's definitely nice to have some nice lyrics in there (but nothing too lyric heavy), if there's a lot of character voices on the scene it will just cause clutter...

For one, my favorite OST was Utada Hikaru's Sanctuary used first in the opening scenes of Kingdom Hearts 2... It has that nice touch of lyrics in there that really brings up the whole music and the scene as a whole...
 
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Tai_MT

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Audio Clutter.

Music with lyrics have to be implemented very carefully.  It is very easy to overload the sensory and concentration of a player if you've got other stuff going on like lyrical background music.  For example:  It's very hard to read text and listen to your music at the same time.  This can even be frustrating to a player who might just turn off the music entirely (if it's an option) in order to be able to read the text without being distracted.  Another example is that it's hard to concentrate on lyrical music when you've got an action scene going on and you've got other sound effects that might drown it out (or the music drowns out the sound effects).

Often, the point of lyrics in any music for a game or a movie is to try to convey the feeling or emotion of the situation without using words.  The effect this tends to have on people is a compelling emotional experience in which the audience doesn't need to be told what's going on, because the song tells you absolutely everything you need to know.

Let's look at a fantastic example.

1000 Words.  This comes from Final Fantasy X-2.  Yes, it's a really stupid and terrible game.  However, if you managed to play it up to the point where the title character Yuna sings it, it tells you everything you need to know about the situation.  It doesn't just tell you about the relationship between Yuna and Tidus, but also their "look alike past lives" that the story centers around.  Everything about that scene with that music makes it a fantastic example for why you would use it and how effective it can be.

Want another example from a different Final Fantasy game?  Eyes On Me from Final Fantasy 8.  There are grown men who cry to that song when it appears in the game because of how emotional and moving it is.  Personally, I don't like the song, but it is a powerful force none-the-less.

Okay, let's go with my personal favorite example from yet another Final Fantasy game (okay, I can't help it, these guys can't design a good FF game, but they somehow manage to nail these lyrical songs with cutscenes and power into our emotions without an issue).  Other World from Final Fantasy X.  The moments at which this badass rock song kicks in only further cement your emotional state and mentality of "hell yeah!".  It makes you feel like you can take on the world and crush any obstacle before you.  We get the first glimpse of the song during the Cutscene Blitzball game where Tidus is kicking a lot of ass and making the sport look more awesome than it is in actuality.  The song hits its high point when suddenly the city is being destroyed around our protagonist as his eyes open in shock while he falls and missiles streak the air beside and behind him.  That song during that scene perfectly sets up the entire storyline of the game as well as what kind of enemy we are going to be facing.  Also note, we don't hear this song again until almost the end of the game and it replaces the "Boss Battle Theme" music of the game when we hear it again.  During that moment, the song takes on a completely new meaning while still conveying everything it originally did when you first popped the disc into the tray.

So, if you plan to use lyrical music in your game (anywhere in your game, in fact), I suggest you be careful with how you use it and where you put it.  You will need to playtest extensively for it.  By "extensively", I mean nobody gets to play-test the thing twice because a second listening of the scene/song in question more often than not produces biased feedback (especially since a player on a second go around will know what you're trying to do, and will tell you it works if it's even slightly close).  You need to have people experience it and then simply ask "Impressions?".  Don't even hint at what you're going for.  You need to figure out if you're invoking what you want without tainting the results.  If you are at all successful in doing it, you will have one heck of a fantastic game.  After all, music is about 30% of a game.
 

Engr. Adiktuzmiko

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Just one more thing, I think it's good to use them only on cutscenes without voice... I do kinda dislike having them on map BG since I'm the kind of person that follows the lyrics when I listen to music so it kinda creates a conflict with all I'm doing
 

Ashton

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I am seeing a trend here, it seems most people have trouble focusing on both the lyrics and the game at the same time, so for now I'm thinking that I'll only use it for a few touching cutscenes (like a (pre-planned) sacrificial lion's death) and of course the opening/ending animations/credits (not on the maps, not on the battles, etc) though I might include a "concert" the player can attend ala Earthbound and the Runaway Five and use lyrics. Thank you all for your feedback!
 

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