Biggest annoyance during game development: money

[Clord]

Yeah, we all know that money factors in and our archaid society places too much importance to it.


But whatever, I'm not here to talk about that.


Back when I was funding my commercial game, I had to justify people close to me why I'm spending money onto my project. Yeah they knew that the project was commercial and that commercial games aren't cheap to do. However they feared that I pay a lot of money to people who then might scam me and I understand that such a risk exists. However getting told constantly about same things like some tutorial that thinks you're too dumb to get it is a bit annoying.


My logic behind the idea was that if I'm going to spend money to do a commercial game, then I need to actually spend. Now if all those expensive assets, music etc actually made game to sell as well it did, is depatable. However I would say that it's nicer to look at than something with entirely stock RTP stuff and I avoided getting scammed a "large sums" of money.

 

[EternalShadow]

Imo the biggest annoyance is actually time, when you have a job. So many companies don't understand individual people have lives (but mine does, I'm happy where I am and I simply choose to do full-time over the Summer) - I can totally emphasise with those in less fortunate positions :/

 

[Shaz]

You can get scammed by exchanging money for ANYTHING. Why is game development any more risky, apart from that fact that it's usually all done online with people who are potentially in another country?

 

[boldpaste2]

That's why before I do any kind of commission I do a portfolio check to see if it is legitimate. I did have a few people try to sell me sprites that were from other locations with just minor edits made. Before finalizing a purchase, you should always ask for proof (through video or screenshot) to be sure its authentic. The bright side is, once you have a successful commission with someone, you don't need to worry as much when commissioning from the same person in the future.

 

[Pine]

I'm feeling like I'm missing something.

Is comissioning art really that expensive and profittable enough to run a scam????

I've always thought of comissioning sprites as a way to pay for my site's hosting, it doesn't really represent a source of income.

A little more on topic, you should always seek people who has reputation and extensive previous work. It's very easy to know, really.

 

[PolywickStudio]

Art is usually done piecemeal. One batch by one batch. 

Same goes for music. One track at a time. 

 

[Piplay]

I'm feeling like I'm missing something.

Is comissioning art really that expensive and profittable enough to run a scam????

I've always thought of comissioning sprites as a way to pay for my site's hosting, it doesn't really represent a source of income.

A little more on topic, you should always seek people who has reputation and extensive previous work. It's very easy to know, really.

You get what you pay for. One or two commissioned original sprites may not look like much, but if you're committed to creating a unique visual style for your game and want original content for it? That's going to set you back by a lot.

As for scams, it goes both ways. You wouldn't believe how many messages I've gotten of people asking if we could do art for their games and we're only promised a cut of their sales, or pay IF they get funded on Kickstarter. That just won't fly for some of us. As a studio, we do this for a living: we don't eat if we don't get paid.

 

[Shaz]

That's why that type of request is absolutely not allowed in this part of the forum. If you can't pay cold, hard cash (or the internet equivalent) when the work is done, you can't ask for it in the commercial area.


And yea, commissioned art for a whole game can set you back quite a lot.

 

[bgillisp]

@Shaz: No surprise really. I could easily see the issues of dispute on amount promised, percent promised, etc, and I imagine no moderator wants to have to intervene into that kind of commercial dispute.

@Piplay: Sometimes I'm honestly surprised at how many want to make and sell a game and pay $0.00 to do it. I know art is not cheap (I think art for my game will set me back $2000 before I'm done paying the artist and spriter), but I picked up some extra hours at work to pay for it back in the months of January - May.

 

[Shaz]

Yeah - promise of payment "when my game is released and sells" is a big gamble, considering most games are not completed, and of those that do get completed and released, not a lot of money is made. This is especially a worry when it comes from someone who hasn't completed a game, or hasn't even started a game, or who clearly has no idea how to make a game or the amount of work required. We expect people to recognize the value of other people's time, effort and skills, and compensate them accordingly.

 

[nio kasgami]

for myself as a game maker I don't find the money the main annoyance for myself is more the fact you have to go custom for people to think your game is good.

I mean it's not needed to have super 100000$ custom asset in your games for have a goods aesthetic in my own opinion !

as a artist : 

take in consideration scam can go in both side I had a lots of people who make me works tons of hours and they don't even paid me in the end.

so it's not only the customer who can get scammed actually. Most of time it's not the customer who get the bad surprise it's the artist sadly.

anyways if you fears to get scammed by every artist or people you will hire ...it's harsh I know it's would be better to not hire someone and doing the job yourself. Hiring someone go with the fact you have to input your trusth in it and he will put is trust in you as well I know you get scammed in the past but you will have to clean this fear from you and think's it's not all the people who are scammer. 

Anyway's for not getting off topics 

I think myself as artist I don't bother much on the money  I just find annoying to not being able to hire the people I want because I lack of moneys I have so many talented musician I would hire for create the song who will give life to my game haha

 

[Piplay]

for myself as a game maker I don't find the money the main annoyance for myself is more the fact you have to go custom for people to think your game is good.

I mean it's not needed to have super 100000$ custom asset in your games for have a goods aesthetic in my own opinion !

as a artist : 

take in consideration scam can go in both side I had a lots of people who make me works tons of hours and they don't even paid me in the end.

so it's not only the customer who can get scammed actually. Most of time it's not the customer who get the bad surprise it's the artist sadly.

anyways if you fears to get scammed by every artist or people you will hire ...it's harsh I know it's would be better to not hire someone and doing the job yourself. Hiring someone go with the fact you have to input your trusth in it and he will put is trust in you as well I know you get scammed in the past but you will have to clean this fear from you and think's it's not all the people who are scammer. 

Anyway's for not getting off topics 

I think myself as artist I don't bother much on the money  I just find annoying to not being able to hire the people I want because I lack of moneys I have so many talented musician I would hire for create the song who will give life to my game haha

So which one is it? Do you work for free as an artist or are you frustrated people who commission you aren't paying you?

Legitimacy is earned: You're probably less likely to get a decent artist if you seem like you can't pay the guy/can't get the game done. The same applies to artists: Show people you have a comprehensive body of work and a work ethic to back it up.

 

[PolywickStudio]

This needs to be put in perspective a little.

Note: I'm not targeting or singling out a particular person. I'm trying to tell the problem lies elsewhere, not art.

I want to talk about game design - the story-line, overall quest, objective of the game, bosses, combat design, UI and layout design.

The games needs to be well-designed and well-made. No amount of programming, art or music can change this.

Game design occurs before programming, art making and music is done.

Without good game-design, all is naught.

You can see this in Chord's games -

The Clans - Saga of the Twins, and feedback is Mostly Negative. If, instead of making new games, she changes the design aspects - such as, story-line, dialogs, quests and making combat less monotonous, the overall game experience can change.

It doesn't take long to change in-game dialog texts, tweak annoying aspects of game as mentioned in the 25+ reviews on Steam.

If this was done, players would change or re-review the game.

 

[bgillisp]

@polywickstudio: Agreed. I've played too many games that are shiny on the outside, but garbage on the inside. This is very true in AAA games. Sure, shiny graphics might wow you a customer or two, but if you don't have a quality product on the inside, you also probably just lost that customer for future games as well. 

@piplay: That does make it hard to get started with the game though, but I suppose that is true with all aspects of life.

All of this does make me glad I chose to make the game for about 6 months before I even ordered any art for the game. I wanted to make sure that the plot was decent enough that others might buy it, and also make sure I was invested enough in it to finish the game (and I figured if I was still going after month 6, it was likely to not be a passing phase and I would finish).

 

[Piplay]

@Piplay: Sometimes I'm honestly surprised at how many want to make and sell a game and pay $0.00 to do it. I know art is not cheap (I think art for my game will set me back $2000 before I'm done paying the artist and spriter), but I picked up some extra hours at work to pay for it back in the months of January - May.

Thanks to the accessibility of Unity's Asset Store and RPG Maker, a lot of people seem to fall under the impression that if they could nick a zombie survival shooter template for $30, the rest of the process of creating a game should come just as easy, but that's far from the truth. If anything, working off a purchased template ought to put more pressure on you as a developer because if anyone can access and use those resources, then it's safe to assume there will be a lot of you shooting to build the exact same thing. What sets your zombie survival shooter apart from about a potential hundred others? Why should I give you my money? There just isn't an easy answer to this. You're either going to have to modify your code to put a different spin to your game or wrap it with visuals that will set your game apart from all the others and unless you can do either on your own, at least respect the work of whoever can through proper compensation. I believe this applies to any other service sector, so why not here as well, right?

@polywickstudio: Agreed. I've played too many games that are shiny on the outside, but garbage on the inside. This is very true in AAA games. Sure, shiny graphics might wow you a customer or two, but if you don't have a quality product on the inside, you also probably just lost that customer for future games as well. 

@piplay: That does make it hard to get started with the game though, but I suppose that is true with all aspects of life.

All of this does make me glad I chose to make the game for about 6 months before I even ordered any art for the game. I wanted to make sure that the plot was decent enough that others might buy it, and also make sure I was invested enough in it to finish the game (and I figured if I was still going after month 6, it was likely to not be a passing phase and I would finish).

Start small! We've done art commissions for first-time projects as well and for those we always tell them to only give us jobs they can afford by requesting piecemeal, if they want to get us that badly. Financially investing in a project helps with you personally committing to it, in my opinion. Just don't spend too much in one go too early on-- we've also seen a lot of developers shell out huge amounts of money early on only to realize their plan may be too difficult to execute or not interesting enough to pursue further.

 

[nio kasgami]

So which one is it? Do you work for free as an artist or are you frustrated people who commission you aren't paying you?

Legitimacy is earned: You're probably less likely to get a decent artist if you seem like you can't pay the guy/can't get the game done. The same applies to artists: Show people you have a comprehensive body of work and a work ethic to back it up.

I don't work for free I works with commission and I my prices a ridiculous low (like only 15$) when you go with a regular artist it's likes 20 and higher 

no they make me works hards example I am half done of the works it's only rest the corrections and they go and say : OHHH sorry but..we find a another artist or I decide to abandon the game.

it's not only frustrating it's also a big lack of respect because people who doing that to me make me lost my times where I can spend this on workings on my school homeworks or workings on my webcomic so this why now unless I know this a trusty client I ask half of the money when I am half done.

but on that I am myself not enable to always get money so I can understand some people having difficulties to pay so I can be comprensive on that

 

[Piplay]

I don't work for free I works with commission and I my prices a ridiculous low (like only 15$) when you go with a regular artist it's likes 20 and higher 

no they make me works hards example I am half done of the works it's only rest the corrections and they go and say : OHHH sorry but..we find a another artist or I decide to abandon the game.

it's not only frustrating it's also a big lack of respect because people who doing that to me make me lost my times where I can spend this on workings on my school homeworks or workings on my webcomic so this why now unless I know this a trusty client I ask half of the money when I am half done.

but on that I am myself not enable to always get money so I can understand some people having difficulties to pay so I can be comprensive on that

Might it be possible that you're either taking too long to work on one commission or you're not able to execute the design close to what they had in mind? I mean they wouldn't have to look for another artist if they were already satisfied with your output, given how dirt cheap you're charging them already. Also, never start on anything without being paid. We usually charge in full after the first sketch.

 

[nio kasgami]

well one week for a works is a to long time ? (mostly I can complete 3 to 5 bust in a week ) and no I discusse with them about the design show them sketch before engaging the "contract" with the customer and made sure everything's satisfy their need in the works.

but yeah now I don't start anything's before they pay me but they pay me half when I have the first lineart finish (the non corrected with a really rought coloring)

anyways we should not get to much off topic haha

 

[L.W. Flouisa]

I think the biggest annoyance to me, is while I'd like at some point to go commercial, I feel like I'd be jumping in head first with no way to pay people, and while friends getting to together and waiting till it's a money earner have been done, to note 1. They were friends that liked working with each other anyway 2. It was the nineteen nineties where I've heard it was more startup friendly.

Well that and from what I heard about game tester stories from the 90s, not exactly a time I want to go back to. Not sure if any of those stories are actually true though, but they could be.

Then there is figuring out if you're wanting to do commissions, by the hour, or salary. There is a lot of stuff I can do myself (spriting, writing, and game testing come to mind) but there is a lot of stuff I can't do except advanced beginner level.

 

[sabao]

Do something else first. Get a different day job to save up for capital on your project. Work with another team to gather experience. I mean what's the rush, right? Take the time to hone your skills. It'll pay off once you do commit to going commercial.