Bonus Assets (Routine Release) via DL Editor

[BubbleMatrix82]

Ah, I see where the disconnect is. A smaller business model is not a failed business model. Some ideas and markets do not scale and to run a business you have to be prepared to work with that. RM is not meant to compete with Unity or the other high end engines. It's meant to be an in-between engine. The userbase is very large for the type of market RM is meant for, trying to capture a new market means leaving behind the one they have to compete with others who've already claimed all the users. Doing that, chasing an unlikely revenue stream in the hopes of being just like other engines, that's bad business. That may seem safe and boring to you and that's fine. RM probably isn't the engine for you. That's why it's good to have choice. I personally like the choice of a hobby engine. The other hobby engines I know of are even more restrictive or unfinished or difficult to use or all of the above.

Would you feel this way if Degica announced it wanted to go after Unity and Unreal but lacked the money to do it?

 

[Sharm]

Not sure what you're asking. I'd think that they were being crazy and stupid and hope someone else would come fill the gap they'd be leaving behind. Probably end up doing more with the other hobby engines I also own but haven't been using.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

Okay. I'm getting the impression that a lot of people are indie pixel artists, indie musicians, indie sound effect makers, indie mapset maker, indie charset maker, and indie every other resource there is to make in RMMV maker and this is "side income" for them. So it makes sense why this idea is so threatening to them, this is how they make an extra $100 a month to afford more Steam games or whatever. And because of this "free market" at the expense of a better quality product from Degica, you all are able to live better quality lives. Okay, I get it. So let's discuss something slightly off topic then - by your definition, what is the point of an "Editor Suggestions and Improvement" section?

By the comments I'm seeing on posts, it appears people are taking these improvement suggestions as opportunities to "pitch" what they have to offer. For an example, an improvement topic about a feature they would like to see gets all the coders to swarm and talk about how (they) can fix the problem, beating around the bush about how easy it is for them to fix it. I can only imagine someone is just waiting for the OP to say "How much?" so that coder can get a side job, which could benefit the masses, but they make money by doing it on every individual case instead...

So I completely understand the way the secondary market works, but it's just not fair for the people who never make it to the forums. I was one of those users for over a year. I didn't know there was a forum other than RMN, so the only resources I had access to was the DLC, which never had what I wanted. So admittedly, I put it down and haven't opened it. And I'm certain I'm not the only one. By the data I found public online, it looks like ~60k are in the same boat (giving +/- variation to people who are in offline mode for some odd reason like the person above).

I still think the DLC for plugins is a good hook to bring some of those users back once they see that the engine is expandable. And it could be a good revenue stream for Degica. Of course, it sounds like the status quo here is to just allow the engine to be poor so individuals can sell their services to the community and create an economy within the RM economy.... I mean, good for everyone, but that just seems like a very tight knit community that's kind of hoarding RM for themselves to me...

Anyways, I'm way too invested in this discussion. I just found it interesting how this community hates the idea of free things when most places I know of would jump at it. I honestly didn't expect to see such a huge job market in the forums. I figured we were all game designers and not asset makers.

 

[Kes]

As the person with the "some odd reason" for being off line - those reasons will vary from person to person. They will likely include unreliable internet connection and/or data limits and/or satellite only connections. There are also the significant number of people who have had their projects corrupted beyond repair by Steam's method of cloud synching while you have your project open. I think your reaction to the notion to some people might do things differently from you encapsulates quite well your inability to imagine things from anyone else's point of view other than your own. That is perhaps why you can't see the moral/ethical issues arising from the notion of exploiting (your own word) artists as young as 13 to get you cheap stuff. It is also perhaps the reason why you can assume with such insouciance that of course you know the minds of 60-80K other people, their aspirations, motivations and work habits so well that you can opine authoritatively on their behalf.

I am not just a game designer, I'm a game maker. I am not an asset maker. That does not mean that I am cool about the exploitation of others. And no, I don't think you do understand how the secondary market works, at least not how it works here. And no, I'm not ready to credit you with the ability to mind-read that number of people. You have plenty of assertions, but no solid empirical evidence, so I am at a loss as to why you think I should just accept what you say without question.

And now in my time zone it is really late, so I bid you good night.

 

[Andar]

I just found it interesting how this community hates the idea of free things when most places I know of would jump at it. I honestly didn't expect to see such a huge job market in the forums. I figured we were all game designers and not asset makers.

There are several things you didn't take into account.

Different artists have different styles - that is not only in quality but also in the way how they look. You only have to check the different art packs sold in the store to see that.
A game needs a consistent art style however - you can't mix and match sprites that don't fit together in a single game. And that means you need the resources from a single artist or a few artists working on the same style.
Anyone will only continue working on resources if he gets something in return - nothing is free, everything is paid by someone, because someone paid for the food on the artist table.

All those exploits for free resources will only work short term however - because no one can go without food eternally.
Additionally it takes experience to get good quality - those new and young artists you're targeting to exploit will simply not have the experience needed to make consistent good quality artwork.

And the people here want their artist to continue working on the resources, simply because it takes months and years to create enough artwork for a full game. That is why we want the artists to have a reason to come back and continue work - so that we are NOT stuck with incomplete low quality sets but have everything ready for a good game.
And we are experienced enough to know that this is only possible if you make sure that the artists are paid what their work is worth.
That continuity in the work is worth more to us than getting shotgunned with different quality artwork for free, because free resources are useless if they don't fit into the rest of the artwork.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

There are several things you didn't take into account.

Different artists have different styles - that is not only in quality but also in the way how they look. You only have to check the different art packs sold in the store to see that.
A game needs a consistent art style however - you can't mix and match sprites that don't fit together in a single game. And that means you need the resources from a single artist or a few artists working on the same style.
Anyone will only continue working on resources if he gets something in return - nothing is free, everything is paid by someone, because someone paid for the food on the artist table.

All those exploits for free resources will only work short term however - because no one can go without food eternally.
Additionally it takes experience to get good quality - those new and young artists you're targeting to exploit will simply not have the experience needed to make consistent good quality artwork.

And the people here want their artist to continue working on the resources, simply because it takes months and years to create enough artwork for a full game. That is why we want the artists to have a reason to come back and continue work - so that we are NOT stuck with incomplete low quality sets but have everything ready for a good game.
And we are experienced enough to know that this is only possible if you make sure that the artists are paid what their work is worth.
That continuity in the work is worth more to us than getting shotgunned with different quality artwork for free, because free resources are useless if they don't fit into the reast of the artwork.

Again, I didn't realize that the community created a supplement system for what was lacking in the Steam store. Because this system benefits so many people, it only makes sense to keep the engine as it is and not improve anything, ever. Because every update the game gets that it spreads to the masses as a free update or an inexpensive DLC IS another thing that takes away from the "put food on the table" community here in the forums.

This scenario really speaks two things about this community, one is they are economically challenged and depend on the unofficial free market to survive and two is RM doesn't need an improvement section and whoever is making the announcements online on Facebook needs to stop pretending that users have any power (or desire) to change the engine since no one wants change. Honestly, it's a little sick how you guys hold the future of RPG MAKER hostage just to support your families or to supplement your underachieving careers, but this is none of my business; I'm just a Steam user trying to get changes made since I thought my opinions and the opinions of the masses were wanted.

With the above said, and with 5 of my suggestions still in moderation, I think this is a waste of my time. I wish everyone luck in their creative arts futures.

 

[Andar]

@BubbleMatrix82
Have you even tried to read what I wrote?
You quoted my answer in your post above, but your text has absolutely nothing to do with what I pointed you to, so why did you quote me?

And that some of your posts are still in moderation has nothing to do with you personally - if you had read the rules here you would have known that there is only one person who will approve posts in this area, and that one has other work to do as well. None of the other admins or moderators will approve here, we only point out when something either ignored the rules or is legally or technically impossible (as one of your suggestions is)

 

[Celianna]

"Free DLC made by 13-18 year olds of the community" is not an improvement suggestion, it's wishful thinking and will be rightfully mocked.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

"Free DLC made by 13-18 year olds of the community" is not an improvement suggestion, it's wishful thinking and will be rightfully mocked.

Sounds like ageism to me... Are you telling me that in your teen years you never entered a really good poem, drawing, or story into a sweepstakes before? What do you think happens to those things? Duh, someone profited off of it. Legally. Is it exploiting the youth, yes. But they volunteered to turn it in for the contest prize.

Wanna see this in action? Go to RMN and view the current contests. The winner gets a prize but what happens to all the entries? Are they sold? Are they given back to the community? Are they stolen and sold behind the scenes? The point is, contests like this exist. Mock and stone throw all you want, you can't get rid of an idea, even if you don't like it.

@Andar
I just click the reply button. Quoting is just a consequence of hitting reply.

I understand people like a consistent art style, which is why the DLC is a waste of time and money unless you can hire the artists for the tiles that were missing... More proof that either Degica has no clue what they are doing OR the community made those DLC packs and someone was profiting off it other than Degica...

Honestly, I'm sensing a lot of corruption on these forums. I'm starting to wonder what my $40 supported...

 

[mlogan]

Corruption?!? Are you kidding me? Please tell me how exactly we are corrupt.

The original resources were provided by Kadokawa and yes, their artists. When Degica hires people to produce resources, in the form of DLC packs, yes it is to help extend that. They are separate companies. Do you not get that?

As far as threads waiting in moderation, there are others there as well, there are others as well, you just can't see them. So get off this kick that we aren't approving your posts because we don't like you.

And one more thing, you don't have to quote to reply. Either just type it and hit send or use @ to reference people.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

What would you call people holding back everyone's suggestions for personal profit as an independent contractor or indie artist if not corruption? The illusion that this forum represents all of RMMV is messed up.

As far as the DLC I'm relieved they are authentic. But they are still a waste of time and money for the reasons Andar suggested on why people have dedicated artists. Art inconsistencies.

Side note: Now 21 downvotes. It's insane how this 4chan/Reddit behaviorism mentality works to shoot down unpopular ideas. But mind you, the world being round was an unpopular idea too until someone actually realized it was true. That and there was no heaven in the stars, which got lots of people killed for going against the church, even though they were right.

 

[mlogan]

Oh my gosh. You are so beyond willing to accept that this is getting "no" votes because people don't think it's an idea that will work that you are turning to accusing of corruption?!?

I believe at least one of your other ideas is getting a good response? If we have it out for you why is that the case?

This is so seriously absurd. If I even remotely thought that some sort of subscription would work, I would be the first to sign up. But, as I said in the very first comment on this thread, experience says it won't, which is why I, and I presume many others, are voting "no". I'd rather see limited resources put towards things that will work in a definitive way. But again, repeating myself, feel free to go try it yourself if you are so certain.

But stop accusing us of being out to get you or being corrupt.

 

[BubbleMatrix82]

This isn't personal dingy. Look at all of the suggestions in this subforum. Are any of them getting YES votes that aren't just bug fixes? Now think about why people would vote no to innovation other than it breaks the engine. People did vote to avoid competition.

On the slickdeals and cheapassgamer forums, people will downvote posts to hide them and keep the savings and odds to get what they want to themselves. Downvotes are a political, competitive strategy; especially if you don't have to give a reason why you downvoted. That's why it should be an opt in process only and not an opt in vs opt out. People will see the opt outs and second guess if it is a good idea, instead of evaluate that it has any merit. It is a herd mentality problem and takes away the integrity of the voting.

Look, this topic has been detailed and off-topic 100x over. I said I was done and I'm finally going to keep my word. But judging on your troll face profile picture, you are going to say something inflammatory to pull me back in aren't you?

Anyways, I meant it when I said good luck with your creative arts futures, even if they are limited to these forums. I still don't like the reasons people have me to not try something new. But you can't stop a status quo, it exists to protect itself.

 

[mlogan]

Troll face?!? It's Captain Kirk - an inside joke with some friends. But, as with everything else you have posted you are only going to see what you want to see. And, as you yourself have pointed out, this topic has run it's course, I'm closing.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Exploiting artists is not innovation. Also, almost every assumption you make, such as the DLC attachment rate, sales numbers, etc, is wrong.

-Actual Degica Employee.

 

[Archeia]

I'm confused, but don't we have Resource Staff to give people free resources? So aside from Resources Forums that gives free stuff, Resource Staff and now on hiatus Wednesday Freebies, why is it always not enough?

With the above said, and with 5 of my suggestions still in moderation, I think this is a waste of my time. I wish everyone luck in their creative arts futures.

You only posted yesterday at 10:44 PM or 11:44 PM in JPT and I'm the only mod who approves the suggestions to make sure they're correct (god bless the mods helping me make sure they're right though). Just because I'm not on the forum 24/7 and I don't know, working or sleeping, doesn't mean that we're out to get you. Statements like this is absurd. STOP. IT.