Brainstorming on implementation of a Skill System

[Totori]

Was brainstorming about an idea I was thinking about using for the base of my project, mostly wanting my game to use little plugins as I can get by with.

But for characters skills I was wondering from the line of how many should I give a character, since I'll end up with a total roster of 9, so I was thinking maybe 7 each, yeah? While thinking that I was like what if I upgraded or gave an option to slightly mix up those skills during the game.

Mostly using an currency that you could find around in set treasure chest, or given from bosses.

For that lets call those Skill Coins. You would then take the Skill Coins to a Shop or something, and they would give you an option for it.

For example
Mia would learn Fire Ball at level 5
As you normally would learn every skill basically by level
0,5,10,15,20, ect
You obtain a Skill Coin from a boss fight later
Taking it to the shop, you are given an option to use that Skill Coin to upgrade Fire Ball.
Now you got two choices.

Arcane Fire Ball- A stronger version of Fire Ball dealing Moderate Damage to a single target.

Raining Fire Ball- A multi target version of Fire Ball, around the same power as Fire Ball.

This would then consume the Skill Coin, and possibly delete Fire Ball, as it would be replaced with this new skill you have chosen.

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Somethings I'm still not sure about would be making a universal Skill Coin, or giving each skill it's own seperate one. Like the coin in the example being called "Fire Ball Skill Coin".

But from what I know in creating an event it might be impossible to do so with a universal skill coin, as you would have no way to not reselect a skill you don't have or haven't learned yet. Making the single coin maybe the only way to go about that?

Also replacing the skill might be a bit harsh? As you could prolly just benefit from learning the new skill, but that might cause a bit of skill bloat maybe?

 

[Eschaton]

I think you should figure out what the core gameplay mechanics before you decide which skills your characters have.

 

[Totori]

Core gameplay mechanics are mostly figured out, this was just one I wanted more thought about before I gone along with something.

It's a linear RPG, with turn based combat. 4 party members in a set party at a time. Nothing real fancy.

 

[Kes]

Please note that Game Mechanics Design is not for giving feedback on individual, specific projects. That is for either Ideas and Prototypes or Games in Development, depending on how far along the process you are.

If you would like this to stay in this forum, then it has to be a discussion which is wider than just one game. That means that replies might be given which are irrelevant to your particular game. And that is okay.

The bit about how to make the skill coin is implementation, so you should raise that in the Support forum for the engine you are using.

If I, as a player, were to find that my single target skill had been removed and all I had was a multi-target skill (presumably at a higher cost) I would not be pleased. Similarly, if my cheap weak skill is removed (great for mopping up already weakened enemies) and all I have is an expensive one, I might not be impressed. Skill removal has to be thought about in relation to more than just the total number of skills the player must scroll through - though obviously that is an important factor.

 

[Eschaton]

If you have your core mechanics worked out, then you know what skills and skill effects need to exist in your game. Coming up with skills and assigning them to actors based on what mechanics you want the player to have should come easily after that.

 

[Wavelength]

I'm a fan of upgrading skills, personally. As long as the player knows what negatives (like higher MP cost) will come from making the upgrade, and can choose not to upgrade their skill if that's what they really want, I don't think it's a problem (and removing skill bloat is a good thing). If you're really slick about the implementation, you can even give the player an option (once they've upgraded the skill) to equip either the non-upgraded skill, or the upgrade they've chosen, for use in battle at any time (but not both).

It looks as if you're only planning to make one level of upgrade for each skill. That makes the use of a "currency" a little bit strange for the system, but I guess it could work.

One design issue you need to consider is upgraded skills eclipsing other, non-upgraded skills in a character's kit. Assume for instance that you have two skills, Fire Ball and Ice Ball, that deal similar amounts of damage. When you use a skill coin to upgrade Fire Ball, and now it's dealing multi-target damage or higher amounts of single-target damage, why would the player ever use the not-yet-upgraded Ice Ball (unless the target is completely immune to fire)? Unless you are really clever with your kit design, and manage to give every skill in a kit significantly different types of utility, I feel like you'd end up giving the player fewer meaningful choices to make in battle until they manage to upgrade every single skill in a character's kit.

We don't discuss engine-specific implementation in Game Mechanics Design, but just as a quick hint, you can probably use Hime's scripts/plugins to dynamically populate choices for a Universal Skill Coin. Your event would first populate the choices for each party member that is in your party, and then would populate the choices for each (un-upgraded) Skill that the selected party member knows. Alternatively, you could probably use the "Select Key Item" (Ace) or "Select Item" (MV) event commands, using dummy items in the player's inventory to track which skills can be upgraded and allowing the player to select one.

 

[lianderson]

A simple method I use to make weaker spells more useful, is to create powerful equipment that comes at the cost of lowering your mana.

 

[kirbwarrior]

maybe 7 each, yeah?

As a general rule of thumb, I always start with 7 as a baseline. I've heard many times about the short term memory being able to "hold" seven things at once and it severely cuts down on trying to remember what a character can do then.

Mind, that's if they are pretty significantly different. For instance, if one character has 30 skills that are all "Do similar damage, apply status ailment" because there are 30 status ailments, then all I'd have to do is think of what ailment I want to easily come up with which skill to pick. Same thing for a character with a spell for each element.

and can choose not to upgrade their skill if that's what they really want,

"Upgrade" is the important term to me. Making a spell do more damage but cost more MP is a sidegrade. If the spell is a strict upside, say, by adding Burn to the Fireball spell without an MP cost, or the upgrade is lowering the cost, then I wouldn't be bothered by even a forced upgrade. Otherwise, choice is basically mandatory to not make choice feel out of the player's hands

I like the skill coins idea, but I'd probably put it off until after you've learned skills. Paper Mario has a similar thing where you can upgrade party members, but it doesn't (from what I recall) show up until you've gotten most members and can decide you who like and want to be better. But then that also doesn't work if all skills are needed.

How many and often you get coins also matters. If, say, there is exactly one coin per member in the game, then what skill you use it on is a huge choice but it's also clear that it's not even necessary for playing the game. On the other end of the spectrum, if there's enough coins for each skill in the game and it's a matter of "completionism" to getting them all, then the player can just upgrade skills they want to use.

Coins for specific skills sounds iffy. In that situation, I'd change it from "coins" to something like a certain group of people you can find that upgrade a spell (such as traveling seers or mages of your school or faeries) or maybe make it straight quest rewards. A neat upside to making it quest rewards is if you do the quest before getting the skill, the skill can be pre-upgraded and ready to be aweseome.

You could also have upgrades be "choices". SumRndmDde has a cool plugin that turns skill into choice trees. If I upgrade Fireball, I might get Raining as a way to cast it, and later upgrade it to have Arcane as a way to cast it. Then I can cast it single target, multitarget, or weak single target (if for some reason I needed that, say to thaw a teammate or keep an enemy alive to capture it).

Skill coins make the most sense imo in a game where you are meant to just have fun and make what you like better, or in a game where every choice is valid but which one you make pushes you towards a style of gameplay (and you'd choose based on that style because you like that skill).

 

[Aesica]

You obtain a Skill Coin from a boss fight later
Taking it to the shop, you are given an option to use that Skill Coin to upgrade Fire Ball.
Now you got two choices.

Arcane Fire Ball- A stronger version of Fire Ball dealing Moderate Damage to a single target.

Raining Fire Ball- A multi target version of Fire Ball, around the same power as Fire Ball.

This would then consume the Skill Coin, and possibly delete Fire Ball, as it would be replaced with this new skill you have chosen.

Already I have a pretty big concern that might even discourage me from playing this game: Branching upgrades generally suck, and by that, i mean there's almost always one that's better than the other. What if I chose Raining Fire Ball and realized it was a mistake, and that it was nearly useless later on. Do I get an undo button, or is this a "trolololol tough luck, choices matter and you built wrong!" scenario?

 

[lianderson]

A secret to making sure skills are good throughout a game, especially a long game, is to ensure they don't do any static damage. But that's more of a balancing issue than a skill implementation thing, and even then, it ain't written in stone.

But you're right, usually there's a better choice for a skill because most devs don't balance their game well. And for that, I suggest the developer either spend more time ensuring things are relatively even, or provide the option to refund skill points.

 

[Aesica]

^ I have to agree with the above post. Scaling skills are amazingly awesome because they grow the character's library of options as the game progresses. Also I agree, it seems like a lot of developers (even some AAA developers!) spend too much time on other aspects of the game and don't bother balancing their skills very well. It's gotten me to the point where every time I see branching skill/class options in games, I drop what I'm doing and search online for a guide.