Can't do it in one run?

Discussion in 'Game Mechanics Design' started by Lord Vectra, Jun 19, 2018.

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  1. Lord Vectra

    Lord Vectra Master Eventer Veteran

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    I'm currently working on my XP project. I'm adding guilds and all that jazz and some of them have requirements of joining and them requirements may get higher and higher as you get deeper in the guild. I'm thinking of going with "you can't be the leader of everything" approach meaning you'll most likely have to play the game again to start or finish up certain content you weren't able to finish in your other playthrough(s).



    So, which would you prefer?

    Have a game where you can't be the leader of everything in one playthrough

    OR
    Have a game where you can be the leader of everything in one playthrough
     
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  2. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    in the real world, becoming the leader of anything comes after one of two events: either you're elected by members of the organization, or you have years of experience in the field, in which case you outclass all the other members.
    time is meaningless in a game unless you make it not be, and you're never elected by other NPCs unless you make it be so.
    so, you see how games naturally tend towards the "you can be the leader of everything if you just grind enough"
    that, unless there's no way to be the leader of anything else than only one organization, by design.

    if, on top of that, you add diplomacy or politics, joining one guild would automatically prevent the player from entering a number of opposing guilds.

    *being allowed to be the leader of anything*, is just lousy design of validations and limitations
     
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  3. The Mighty Palm

    The Mighty Palm Resident Palm Tree Restaff

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    On one hand youve got potential replayability, and on the other you've got convenience and ease of access. I personally like replayability and the idea that you cant be everything, but some drawbacks come to mind:
    If you cant do everything in one run, then if say there were any unique rewards tied to these guilds, characters, items, legendary gear, unique bosses, etc. you'd be preventing the player from "collecting them all" or doing a 100% run and thats something to keep in mind.

    Also you would need to be sure that the game was fun to play again. Id personally look into how to make New Game + if you werent already planning it because grinding through an rpg a second time isnt nearly as fun as replaying with all your prev gear and plowing through the early game. (but theres other alternatives too.)
     
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  4. DarkHyudrA

    DarkHyudrA Actually I'm Enzonaki Veteran

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    In Kingdoms of Amalur which have a few guilds to join, you never truly become the leader if not by a few exception where most people get killed but rather you become their champion, the highest honorable rank or something like that.
     
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  5. Lord Vectra

    Lord Vectra Master Eventer Veteran

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    This is exactly what I was thinking(last part). I want the player to be powerful, but not to be the King of everything. It's funny you talk about time because I actually have a time/sleep system. As for politics and such, that's something I plan to do where two guilds conflict which led me to making this thread.

    If I go with this idea, I will definitely be doing new Game+. Of course, that is assuming I can implement it correctly. I know how to do it, but utilizing it for this specific game will probably be tricky, but I'll try my best.

    I know of that game. I actually forgot about the Champion stuff that the game does. I'll keep that in mind when doing guild questlines.
     
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  6. gstv87

    gstv87 Veteran Veteran

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    I meant the character doesn't grow old.
     
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  7. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    Eh, personally, making a "one time only limited choice" doesn't really guarantee I'll play the game a second time. In fact, I don't usually care to play games a second time unless they're fun regardless of the choices the first time around.

    If you have two game plots, a good guy plot and a bad guy plot... I'll play the good guy plot and not really bother with the badguy plot. The same kind of applies to anything of that nature.

    I'd take a look at your guilds, I'd think, "which best suits what I want to do or who I am?" pick one, and never play it again. Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 4 did this. If not for the Achievements, I'd have never played through multiple times. Once was enough for both games. Yes, even for the "much lauded New Vegas". New Vegas I picked to side with House. Being "independent" didn't actually put me in charge or allow me to make all the sweeping decisions I wanted to make in the game. So, I sided with House, who was MOST of what I wanted New Vegas to be, and figured I'd make up my own storyline later about how once he was in command and had it all set up, I took over and fixed everything. Let him do the dirty work and be blamed, and I'd get to take credit for ending his terrible regime... make him my scapegoat. But, the game had no such option to do so. So, I had to pretend. Every other faction? I hated. Fallout 4? I sided with The Institute. And hey, they put me in complete control as dictator. Which means, I could order them all to do absolutely anything I wanted and was answerable to no one. Best outcome for the Commonwealth, ever.

    Getting back on track here... That's what you're going to have with your Guilds. People who pick a single faction/guild, stick with it, and not think twice about it. It isn't going to make them play the game a second time unless you've got some incentive to do so (like say, an achievement to obtain). I wouldn't do it just to see how other guilds do things or what quests they have. I picked the story I wanted to enjoy. Why would I "try again" on a story I didn't care about the first time through? I'll read a FAQ. I'll grab a guide. I'll watch a "Let's Play" to see how different it is to my decisions. I have zero need to play the game a second time just for a suboptimal story experience (it's suboptimal because I joined the guild I wanted the first time and relegated all other guilds as "not as good" the first time) in comparison to how I played the first time.
     
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  8. Lord Vectra

    Lord Vectra Master Eventer Veteran

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    RIP, Im an idiot, my bad.

    I figured not everyone is going to replay it, but I can't help it if a gamer generally never wants to replay games naturally. Now, if they don't replay because it sucked, then that's a different story. The target audience are for people who like to create different characters and roleplay (like DnD players). I thought of doing achievements because I think they're cool - they aren't going to last too long for people who don't do replays anyways, so I feel doing achievements just for those types of gamers is a wasted effort. Also, when you're playing solely for the achievements, less focus is put on the game and more on the achievement which is part of the reason I been wishy-washy on if I want achievements.

    How does a warrior that never use magic suddenly becomes Archmage? How does a mage that never lifted a sword become leader of the fighters guild? These are usually the reasons I add these requirements. As of now, I have 9 guilds w/ 4 having no requirements (technically 3 because if you side with someone down the line in another questline or completely finish said questline before finishing it, 1 of them becomes unavailable).
     
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  9. Tai_MT

    Tai_MT Veteran Veteran

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    @Lord Vectra

    See, the way you've set things up isn't for "to add replayability". You've set it up for "every player has a mostly unique experience". Which, honestly, isn't a bad idea either. You've got it so that no matter what a player chooses, they've got guild options.

    Generally, the best ways to ensure replayability are to add in perks or rewards for playing a second time. Entirely new chapters of the story become available. New equipment is available. New skills. New characters. Essentially, adding all new gameplay to a second play of the game. Most people accomplish this with "new game plus".

    If you're looking to strictly increase the amount of people who "replay" your game, I'd focus on adding in something they couldn't get on their first run.

    But, honestly, you don't need to focus on players replaying your game. Just focus on providing a good first time playthrough. That's really all you need. After all, you don't get paid twice if someone plays the game a second time.
     
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  10. XIIIthHarbinger

    XIIIthHarbinger Part Time Super Villain Veteran

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    As a player I prefer to have multiple potential playthroughs.

    I understand Tai_MT's sentiment of choosing what you like best & then stopping, as I've done the same on games I didn't find very interesting. However, on the flip side of that, I've been rather disappointed when I've enjoyed a game, & would have liked to have seen what would have happened if you were able to "left instead of right" on various choices. So I rather enjoy having the option.

    As a developer I prefer to make multiple potential path playthroughs.

    Frankly I find the whole linear you are the Chosen One™, from quaint village #3™ which was burned down by evil, gather the six magic MacGuffin™, & defeat the Dark Lord™ rather played out.

    So for my own project I entirely discarded the "Save the world from ultimate evil" trope, place the player into the role of tabula rasa character who the player chooses the name, sex, skills, class, etcetera of. Then place them into a morally ambiguous world where multiple factions are pursuing their own agenda, & let the player choose who to ally with as a mercenary.

    Simply put, you aren't Daenerys Targaryen or Jon Snow heir to the throne & potential champion against the Knight King, you're Bronn.

    So the player can do multiple playthroughs based on character builds, as well as different faction campaigns.
     
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