Censorship in video games

[CrazyCrab]

Hi guys,

today I saw a video of dying light and I was like, hmm, that actually seems kinda fun! I'm not the big fan of over-the-top violence and I'm tired of zombies in general. but I just love the parkour aspect of it. Also, there is something rewarding about being able to make a flaming gardening sickle that also acts as a taser.

Additionally, I also discovered that it's made by Techland, a studio from my home town! Yay. I'm glad that my home country is making progress when it comes to video games (also, Witcher 3, looks promising ) and I thought that it would be a nice thing to support them, since the game looks promising anyway.

I go to Steam, and hooray, the game is unavailable in your region. Oh Germany, why you do this to me? I'm not German, I should be able to play anything I want here... eh. Reminds me of that one time when I wanted to play Fallout 3. The only version I could buy here was a poorly voiced, German-only, 0 violence version. As in no blood whatsoever. It was absolutely disturbing, hitting a ragdoll with a baseball bat, with no sounds or blood, till it stops moving and lies in a bizarre positing staring into my soul... *shivers*

Eh, so my only option right now is to wait till I move out of Germany, change my IP (not going to do that, messy), completely forget about it even though I have the money or pirate it... Uhh... One of these options is easier than the others.

So yeah, thanks censorship. Go to hell. With how easy it is to illegally download games I'm surprised it even is a thing. Not saying I'm going to, but eh.

What are your opinions on that matter? Running into similar problems perhaps? I'd love to hear what you think.

 

[Ms Littlefish]

I don't agree with censorship, really. Almost ever. There are some instances where it doesn't bother me and even a couple times I totally understand why changes were made in a certain localization.

But, if there is content that some may find inappropriate, that's why we have a rating system. Then when you get into the fact that it is often used to alter the game's original content, or caters to a group with an agenda; it sort of kills the intent of why a lot of things are made in the first place. 

 

[Touchfuzzy]

Can you get someone from outside of Germany to gift it to you? I know that that has worked in the past for censored version of games (like with L4D2). According to this you can: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/204573/how-can-i-play-dying-light-in-germany

I'm also anti-censorship. I think that people get their panties in a bunch over stupid stuff. Yes, rating systems are good, but outright banning/changing content is silly nanny state stuff.

 

[Caitlin]

I think that it depends on the level of the morality of the people in question.  I know that back in the day of early comic books, they went too far and was shielding people from death or evil, but today, I think that it's too loose so to speak.  I think there is a healthy amount of censorship and a completely unhealthy level.  Censorship should serve as a limit to what you can do, and serve as a guideline.  I think when you enter what I term, prudish levels, you force people to follow it like a law, but when you don't have guidelines, you get chaos and people doing whatever they desire.  It's all about making a game for a certain audience, sex, age group in mind and sticking with those guidelines for that group. 

Opinions, in my opinion, should not be censored or hidden away.  For example, I think that Germany's laws are a bit extreme, while the United States lessen a bit, too, as most people are on the prudish side in some areas and too lax in others.. I think Japan could use some improvement in their video games section as it is focused on the west, but their mangas are pretty good example of a healthy society that has some limits at the same time. (Yes, there are the rare exception that makes you do... WTF!!!)

 

[Athryl]

I definitely oppose censorship like you described. I'm too casual of a game dev for it to ever really be an issue but I think I would sooner not release my games in places where they would be changed so much...Then again I don't tend to make overly graphic content either. 

I don't love the rating system (here in the US anyway), but it's still superior to outright censorship.  My main beef with it is how inconsistent it seems from say one M game to another M game.  That said, with the internet and widespread communication it's pretty easy to find very detailed descriptions of what a movie, game, book, etc. contains and I think that's the best source when trying to decide if something is appropriate for you (or your child, whoever you're watching out for). I just like having choices, and while sure I wouldn't necessarily want my hypothetical children to watch something that's going to scare them and cause nightmares & unnecessary questions for their age I am still ok with it being out there.  

Ultimately I just feel it's the developer's responsibility to make their product true to themselves and the story they are telling, and my responsibility to decide if that lines up with my values or not.

 

[Alexander Amnell]

   Censorship is one of the three main signs that mark the beginning of the fall of a free society historically speaking; and is the only action that validates piracy in my opinion, if only to fight back against such idiotic agendas.(though I'm not sure I'd be able to apply that principle to a video game; ideally I'd try to give the developer money somehow AND screw over big brother by 'pirating' at the same time.) The sad reality is that as far as we may think we've come, we're backsliding once more into the vicious and willfully ignorant cycle that is human history, and I doubt our descendants will learn from our mistakes anymore than we did the lessons of our ancestors.

   It's to bad that this problem isn't limited to entertainment anymore; but in most cases such policies do tend to start out only affecting mundane indulgences without a large enough following to actually push back against their enforcement so it squeaks by and eventually expands. That kind of apathy will kill the world someday, so no, I don't believe that anything good comes from governmental censorship of ideas; be they games movies or any other seemingly unimportant indulgence. That just leads to people becoming more and more apathetic and self-serving, which allows those regulations to develop into much more oppressive mediums as a result.

 

[Andar]

Why are people talking about "the" censorship? A lot of today's mess is because there are different forms and targets for censorship, and one of the reasons for the mess is that a lot of people are trying a compromise that fits all of them at the same time.


Just two examples: I know of a few movies in German that contain pictures of topless females and are still considered Age-12 material by our rating agencies due to the context those pictures are used in - in the USA there are people that would have a fit and request remove of those scenes even if they were rated mature (there were a few similiar cases on DeviantArt which showed less than you can see in a German public city park on a hot summer day and still were deleted).


On the other hand, German rating is very strict to protect children from violence. Sometimes they go as far overboard about that as the americans go overboard about nudity.


And sometimes there are historical reasons - for example that certain nazi symbols are absolutely forbidden in almost every context in Germany.


But sometimes the censorship isn't even from the rating agencies or for age reasons. The old movie "supergirl" isn't exactly the best movie made, but if you have to watch it made sure that you never watch the German version. The original movie is about 120 minutes, but the German version was cut to 90 minutes by removing every non-action-scene possible. Because the distributor thought that people who want to see superhero movies have no interest in non-action-scenes, even if half of the remaining scenes no longer made any sense without the cut-out scenes...


As far as the original topic goes there are two possible solutions you might try:


1) go to one of the gameshops that import game software and purchase it physically instad of online. That you can do because then the shop can handle age control - German law puts some restriction on online-purchases of Age-18 materials. Anyone doing this needs to use a special form of age control, and a lot of online shops don't want to bother with that (because it requires to send and return special forms by the local post office).


2) Try to use the TOR network to pretent being in another country. That won't work if Steam uses account settings instead of IP checks, but it should help with non-steam programs from independent shops (don't purchase steam keys in those shops, only non-steam versions)

 

[Touchfuzzy]

I don't think rating systems are censorship. If I get slapped with an R/M/whatever rating, I'm not being told I can't sell my object in a country.

Having straight up "this can't exist here without severe cuts" is the issue, and Germany and Australia are two of the countries I see do it the most.

And yeah, getting someone outside the country to gift it to you on steam is your best option, because you won't break the Steam ToS that way. Using something to spoof your IP address DOES break their ToS.

 

[Chester]

MORTAL KOMBAT *plays theme* I can understand why they used the censorship. As a teen I couldn't handle violent games. I remember playing the first Halo game and I couldn't handle the game because of the blood and the aliens. Although I did muster up the courage to play all the stages until the very first time you were introduced to the Flood and once again I could not handle it. It was depressing. I also remember when House of the Dead came out and I had nightmares about the game because of the scary zombies. I believe they are trying to protect kids.

 

[Galenmereth]

@Chester: Kids should not be playing these games. That is what the age rating is for. They are not allowed to be sold to kids, either. It is the parents' duty to oversee that their kids do not consume entertainment not meant for them. This is by no means an easy task, but censoring media to "protect the children" is absurd when the media in question was never intended for children to begin with.

 

[Ralpf]

@Chester: Kids should not be playing these games. That is what the age rating is for. They are not allowed to be sold to kids, either. It is the parents' duty to oversee that their kids do not consume entertainment not meant for them. This is by no means an easy task, but censoring media to "protect the children" is absurd when the media in question was never intended for children to begin with.

Legally speaking, that is not the case in the US, there is no age restriction to buying any game. There have been various laws from time to time, but they have been struck down.

Some stores voluntarily enforce the ratings, Gamestop won't sell M (Mature 17+) rated games to minors (though anything rated less than M I believe anyone can buy) and Walmart does not stock AO (Adult Only) games.

I am against censorship, ratings are completely different though, properly used (which in general they are for video games) ratings are just a tool to give people knowledge on what they are buying.

 

[Athryl]

It's true it's not illegal, but pretty much all major chains have an ID check that comes up on the register in my experience.  Smaller, independent stores often don't but they're also more likely to face backlash from their own community if it's a recurring issue.  Buying online circumvents it almost entirely.  Bottom line it's pretty darn easy to get a hold of them (or at least it was when I was a minor).

Just like anything else age restricted a determined child will get a hold of it - that's why parental involvement from the get go is so important. My parents were ok with me playing M games because I was responsible, did well in school, didn't act out, etc. They were in touch with what was going on in my life and judged based on that...something no amount of laws and ratings can do.  The hard part is that so many kids don't have parents that are so involved and that's where laws usually come in, for better or worse depending on who you ask.

 

[Espon]

I'm against censorship.  I find it dumb and ruins part of the experience.  Luckily we don't see that much here, although there have been games localized from Japan that were changed.  Nintendo used to be really big on censorship in the 80's and 90's, forcing companies to remove things like religious symbols and revealing outfits.

 

[Makio-Kuta]

Sometimes I think it would be interesting to take games from 10-15 years ago and have them re-rated by modern rating standards and see if/how things have changed. What constitutes being rated 'M' today seems a lot different now.

Anyway, I've never been a fan of outside parties forcing censorship on any sort of media, especially if it takes something away from the actual experience. But to Chester's comment, there are even some adults who cannot handle extreme violence (or other mature themes), so games that offer the choice to turn off or lower the level of certain things make me nod in appreciation. That's a developers choice though, so it doesn't entirely fall under the same category of censorship.

Though, the little pointless changes that in no way affect the gameplay just plain make me laugh rather than upsetting me in anyway. (like the cover of Trauma Center editing out a character's cleavage - nothing was changed in game that I'm aware of, so examples like this just make me laugh. And *shrug* if something like that is what it takes to get it to pass whatever standards to be sold on shelves of major retailers - sure whatever.)

 

[Caitlin]

Well, I think that a lot of people have a misunderstanding of what censorship is. When you have things that you will not show a much younger person, you are removing that or censoring that from them. It's a guideline and under that or any other name is meant to serve as a guide of what you should or should not show certain people.  By the time, you are an adult, you shouldn't have anything censored from you and mostly, it's your choice and others.  If the majority decides that "X" is not right in a video game or movie, it won't sell and likely will not be done again.  The biggest problem is when people misuse censorship as a way of overly controlling what people see, no matter the age, sex or whatever.

 

[Touchfuzzy]

The thing about kids, is that it is up to each parent to know their kid, and know what they can handle. Do parents get it wrong sometimes? Absolutely. Every parent has made a bazillion mistakes, generally though, the kids come out the other side fine.

The thing that isn't though, is censorship. When I say my daughter can't see X movie, or play Y game (which doesn't happen much, my daughter is 12, and generally can handle pretty much anything that isn't horror, horror is a no no because I don't want to stay up all night with her), that isn't censorship. I'm not telling anyone what they can or can't say, or removing anything from society.

 

[Cannoli]

I can understand censoring objectionable material in childrens' media if it doesn't detract from the overall experience. Most people here are aware of 4Kids' treatment of their Japanese properties, but it happens all over the world and with Western media as well.

Generally speaking, companies censor products (be they movies, video games, television series, etc.) because of either government standards put in place on what kind of media the public is allowed to consume or the consumers themselves not wanting to support a product that contains uncensored X/Y/Z. It's mostly a financial concern, not a moral one, and an issue that varies from culture to culture.

My personal stance is that video games are fair game for censorship, unless it significantly detracts from gameplay or the message the developers wanted to create. Making sure that the 1000+ year old demon that looks like a little girl has some clothes on is fine by me, so is removing inappropriate dialogue from E-rated games.

 

[Andar]

Unfortunately ratings and censorship can't be separated as some of you partially think.


The first example about the blood removed from a game? That wasn't exactly censorship, the publisher could have left the blood in.


However, if the blood would have been left in, the game would probably have gotten an Age-18 rating here in Germany. Including a switch to turn the blood off would not have changed that, as long as the blood can be shown it would result in a higher rating.


The publisher of that game decided to remove the blood in hope of getting a lower age-rating and being able to sell to a larger audience, because here in Germany the age ratings are enforced on selling.


There are only a few things here in Germany where a real censorship is enforced, but because the age ratings are enforced, a lot of companies voluntarily remove content to get more customers with a lower rating. And you have to keep in mind that we have a special "rating" above Age-18 where the items still might be sold to adults, but all and every advertisement for that object is strictly forbidden (which means that not even reports or tests on those are allowed). Only very few games (perhaps some dozen in all the years since computer games exist) ever landed on that list (and several older have been removed when the definitions on the restrictions changed, for example Doom was there for several years), but publishers unfortunately often try to err to the lower side instead of risking that ban on advertisement.

 

[Ralpf]

That's why I specified if properly used, ratings are a tool for consumers, not for the government.

 

[Silver Wishes]

Hmmm... visual censorship I can deal with... verbal censorship on the other hand...

When something gets all twisted up and distorted to fit something misleading (because propaganda and money), that's the most unacceptable for me...

There is a reason for censorship and that is because the majority of responsible people (parents....) can't comply with, or doesn't even comprehend the exsistence of ratings and then complain that games are too violent and corrupt their little angels...

@Chester

I can't handle mortal combat either xD... even now... (so, I kinda prefer it toned down.) but that just means it's not for me...

That said I can't stomp my foot and demand the game be redesigned to fit my own needs... There are people who like it that way...

And I also think many of the censhorships are so... well... hillariously sad...

An example not from a game is with sanji's cigarette... I mean... really? Look out the window and you see way worse things...

(I don't really have such an extreme example from a game, but over here, people don't care much about censorship...)

Yeah... my point, when life outside your front door remains 'uncensored', censoring a game is a fat hypocricy... Sheltering isn't always a good thing.