Chain Game II - Brainstorming

Discussion in 'Community Announcements and Events' started by Deckiller, May 20, 2013.

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  1. Seacliff

    Seacliff RPG Maker Mastermind Veteran

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    I'll be fine if we vote for the tilesets I guess, as long as we can stick with something that one can make a whole game out of or works with RTP.

    Might be best if we had a poll in a different post so we can accurately keep track.

    And now that you explained why we should have a small numbers of enemies in a dungeon I can agree with you. The battle system we're using isn't anything too unique so it might be best if we have a small amount.
     
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  2. C-C-C-Cashmere

    C-C-C-Cashmere Veteran Veteran

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    If everyone uses the Celianna tileset, we won't have to worry about it blending with RTP. It's not a hard tileset to use, anyway. It's essentially the same, except more versatile. Newbies will likely not be confused by it, is what I'm saying, they'll probably have more creative freedom.

    As for the linear/nonlinear argument, we could make the best of both worlds by creating an overworld made of locations created by users, controlled by quest-giving in the main hub city/town. New locations that are open will sparkle, or something.

    This is a good idea.
     
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  3. Deckiller

    Deckiller Phoenix Veteran

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    Yeah, instead of a world map-type thing (which could restrict people since the world map would have pre-determined geography) we could just have an explorable field in the center of the game, with a town in the center of the field that has a portal to the final dungeon. The field wouldn't need to be huge so that people could access all the areas like you mentioned. Or, heck, maybe the east path out of the field will have a north/south branching path that could, in turn, lead to two chapter areas. Maybe at the town you could fast travel to the entrances of different areas once you explore them; that way, you don't have to navigate the field again. Or the field could be handled like Majora's Mask, in which all the exits of the field are very close to the central town, and there are just a bunch of nooks and crannies to explore in the corners.

    Maybe a combination of item-usage and permits to access new areas? Maybe you have to get permission from the King/whatever to travel to new areas/dungeons to get new Thingies/Macguffins? We could leave the reasoning up to the chapter creators. Say you get access to Bombs in Chapter 2. The chapter 3 creator could go back to the field and make one of the blocked paths to their chapter's content blocked with bombable rocks instead of a generic "this area will be accessible in a later chapter!" thing. Sort of a flexible retcon so that the final version will seem more cohesive.

    Edit: Also, the more I think about this, the more I'm wondering...maybe we should just do two separate chain games like others have suggested: a sequel to the first, and an all-new story based on the ideas that we've been floating around more recently. That way, things don't have to be forced: people could do a chapter in each if they wanted.

    Edit 2: Users must own VX as well as Ace to use Celianna's tilesets, since some of the edits are derived from VX's RTP. Requiring chainers to own both versions of the program is likely unrealistic. Looks like we may have to stick with the RTP. Not a big deal as far as I'm concerned: having fun gameplay and Yanfly scripts will help make the project stand out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2013
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  4. C-C-C-Cashmere

    C-C-C-Cashmere Veteran Veteran

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    All your points are very valid, so yes, we will use RTP. I didn't know you had to own VX as well as Ace, and lucky I do, because I've used Celianna quite extensively.

    This seems really good. I'm not sure how 2 games would work though, but everything you've said here is sound. I'm pretty excited for this.
     
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  5. Deckiller

    Deckiller Phoenix Veteran

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    I think having the second option for those who would like to do a sequel is cool. Is there enough interest in a sequel to do a second game focused on that?

    Here's another thought before we dive in: what if we have four opening chapters made at the same time and then assembled in order? We could try out what Espon suggested: assign a set of switches, variables, etc and then stitch the intro chapters together. Maybe our four (initial) heroes start off in different areas of the world (north, south, east, west) and are brought together to the central town on a summons to begin the quest. Perhaps monsters are appearing and the King wants to assemble a crack team of heroes! The first 4 chapters could have short dungeons or whatever (but they wouldn't be Thingie dungeons or anything, haha). And then each chapter would end at the central town. It would also allow us to get a nice, large field done by four different people. The pitfall is that this may leave too much of the world building in the hands of the first few chainers, and could restrict future chainers' creativity, especially if each person makes a whole region attached to the field.

    So the design could go like this:

    Intoduction:

    Chapter 1 -> Chapter 2/3/4 (development at the same time)

    Main Quest:

    Chapter 5 -> Chapter 6 -> Etc.

    The only issue with doing it in this way is that two people may do two very similar things: characters might be wicked similar and whatnot. There would have to be some planning out ahead of time by each chapter creator, which could take some of the spirit out of a chain game. Hmm...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2013
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  6. Espon

    Espon Lazy Creator Veteran

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    I don't think it would limit world development for later chapters, they could easily add new areas as separate places or onto previous ones.  If there's a central town, we could stick it on an island and have a ship send you to various other islands or places depending on what's unlocked.

    Even if things look somewhat similar, they'll still have differences.  Just need to avoid hardcore clichés like: "Hero's town gets burned down, causing him to fall in love with a mysterious girl."  Or maybe that would be funny if every hero suffers from similar experiences...
     
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  7. Deckiller

    Deckiller Phoenix Veteran

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    Espon, yeah, I think that works: I think we could combine the field and island ideas. The southern half of the game area could be a mainland/large island, with a field and whatnot leading to areas. The central town could be more like a hub with three entrances to a field (east/west/south) and a port on its north side that could lead to island and stuff. This would balance things out nicely. Someone could make a whole new island, or an expanded early chapter area unlocked by an item obtained in the previous chapter, or a storyline event.

    So it could be an archipelago with a large main island and other islands that people could include and expand. Definitely.

    Edit: If we do the four chapter start idea, I figure that any items you gain in the intro chapters will only be available in that intro chapter until the party is gathered (makes sense, because they would then share their special items). This means that we would have to have some communication on what kind of character, area type, and special item (if any) that each intro chapter would have.

    I can whip up a first chapter in a few days if everyone is cool with the ideas presented here. Wouldn't take anywhere near as long as the last one ;) And if for someone reason it stalled, someone else could start it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2013
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  8. valkill101

    valkill101 Alien Mastermind Veteran

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    I'm down for this, loved participating in the first chain game and I would be very excited to see how this one goes as well.
     
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  9. Lustermx

    Lustermx Veteran Veteran

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    To start off the first chapter, we should discuss which scripts and stuff should be used. There might have been a few that I wanted to add on the first chain game, but I couldn't because it corrupted save files. Namely, a few yanfly scripts I wanted to use.
     
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  10. Deckiller

    Deckiller Phoenix Veteran

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    Yeah, we discussed using Yanfly Engine ace and I'm totally down for it. I was thinking about just adding all the essentials: the battle system, the message system, the core engine, etc.

    Not sure if we should do the class system, since it may make things too intricate for a chain game.

    Edit:

    So let's see...

    Ace Core Engine

    Ace Message System

    Message Actor Codes (why not lol)

    Party System and Command Party (changing characters mid-battle would be an excellent wrinkle)

    Ace Battle Engine and its addons (but not necessarily free turn battle...hmm...)

    Command Equip (could make battles more interesting)

    Combat Log Display (very useful)

    Victory Aftermath

    Ace Equip Engine

    Buff State Manager (just for the turns remaining on status effects)

    Steal Item (one character could be a thief, haha)

    And many more options here. We probably shouldn't go too crazy with adding these scripts, though.

    Some of the fancier scripts (cast animation, etc) can be added once the chain is done to minimize the amount of grunt work each person has to do.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2013
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  11. Seacliff

    Seacliff RPG Maker Mastermind Veteran

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    Visual battlers maybe? Nothing complex and not too different to default. It's a nice simple non-animated side-view.
     
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  12. Lustermx

    Lustermx Veteran Veteran

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    Sounds good already! Though, I think the Chain Game should be relatively simple, so agreed on not the overload of scripts. I have to say, I'm not a fan of the visual battlers though (if you're referring to the actors, Seacliff).

     With the Ace Core Engine, we could use it to expand the resolution - Higher res is always fun and nice looking~

    If we are going to go with the 4 chapters at once idea... I dunno, but I foresee havoc with that: there could be balancing issues and a lot of inconsistencies. And even though we're going to be assigning people IDs etc... There's a lot to assign (from states to variables to switches..). It seems like a lot of unnecessary work. I think we should start off smaller again.

     I am however for the idea of a main central hub - It worked quite well in the first chain game and it was always nice to see it expand.
     
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  13. Seacliff

    Seacliff RPG Maker Mastermind Veteran

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    Fine, we don't need Visual battlers, just suggesting a simple side view... come to think of it, it wouldn't work well if we are only using RTP battlers.

    I agree with the unnecessary work needed for doing multiple chapters at once, I never thought of that (of course, I'm not assigning stuff so...) and balancing was hard enough for a linear game. Maybe I need to sit down on that idea for now.

    You changed my entire view of this subject by the way, Lustermx. I might thank you later for that.
     
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  14. Deckiller

    Deckiller Phoenix Veteran

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    Alrighty then. What if we have the 4 chapters in linear order to prevent havoc, but keep the idea of the first 4 chapters introducing 4 different characters being summoned to the hub town? I mean it's a slight restriction and formula, but there's still a lot of creative freedom.

    I just started making the first map :D
     
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  15. Seacliff

    Seacliff RPG Maker Mastermind Veteran

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    That's a lot better, just be sure to communicate that once you release the first chapter.

    BTW, what's this game going to be called? Chain Game 2 or something different?
     
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  16. Deckiller

    Deckiller Phoenix Veteran

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    We'll have to think of a clever name. Chains of Fate? Haha.
     
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  17. C-C-C-Cashmere

    C-C-C-Cashmere Veteran Veteran

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    Chains of Fate: The Fate of the Chain
     
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  18. Deckiller

    Deckiller Phoenix Veteran

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    The Radiant Chain

    (Since there's a hub town and all.)
     
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  19. C-C-C-Cashmere

    C-C-C-Cashmere Veteran Veteran

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    Radiant Chains of Fate: A Deckiller Joint

    Starring:

    • Nicolas Cage as Eric
    • Nicolas Cage as Natalie
    • Nicolas Cage as Terence
    • Nicolas Cage as Ernest
    • Nicolas Cage as Succubus, and:
    • Nicolas Cage as Himself
     
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  20. Deckiller

    Deckiller Phoenix Veteran

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    Either way, I have 3 maps done (won't give a play-by-play, I promise). Can't have an exact timetable on this since we're still brainstorming. I also have an idea of who the first character will be. Richard the Burned Out Knight.

    The dungeon will be fairly simple but with a handful of puzzles (sort of like the first dungeon that Despain made). There will be an item.

    Edit: http://the-radiant-chain.wikia.com/wiki/The_Radiant_Chain_Wiki

    That'll be the wiki, haha. We can always change the name if everyone hates it. I'll start adding a framework asap.

    I'm worried that updating a wiki may be too much work for some users. There's a lot of stuff that we can track on it that would be of MAJOR use for future chapters (heck, keeping track of the number of skill books/where to find special skills, equipment, etc. alone would be massively useful). I know that summarizing the ongoing plot as it unfolds chapter by chapter will be a huge reference for people. Ultimately, if we all invest a couple hours in updating the wiki as we make our chapter, it will make the job of the next person two hours shorter. We'll break even on time investment, yet we'll have a game with a higher degree of continuity and balance. You'll no longer have to guess how many Ice Bolt spells are throughout the world, or whether that summon or special sword that you see in the database was put in a chest somewhere. We can track all of that on a wiki. Plus, we can take pride in our chapters by putting things in writing! Imagine being able to morph this into an all-out player-friendly wiki database/walkthrough after the chain is complete.

    I'm kind of interested in seeing what everyone thinks of this idea. I think it will be more streamlined than using a notepad file, as long as we keep it organized.

    We could also use google docs instead of Wiki...hmm. Thoughts?
     
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