Change to People2 sprite

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Little Paw

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EDIT - This explanation inserted by Kes into the post which began the discussion.

This thread has been created by moving all the posts discussing this in the 'MV 1.6.1 stable version' thread.

In its original location it was derailing the thread, and we think it is better that it is all in its own thread, rather than interwoven with posts dealing with something completely different.

EDIT ENDS




Care to explain why you've censored one of the default sprites?

 
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Kyuukon

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Well... that's totally unnecessary but I guess we have two variations now :p
 

felsenstern

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Care to explain why you've censored one of the default sprites?
I think with the amount of scrutiny indie productions are receiving nowadays it's not a bad thing to be on the safe side.
 

Little Paw

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Pretty much post to the plugin developers or post in Javascript Support Boards.


No idea. Maybe there's a change in rules in CERO Japan for all we know.
Well, I would really appreciate if someone could find out for us and make an announcement about it.
 

Little Paw

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Or you can just use the old version if you really want your skimpy belly dancer...?
I don't really find that to be acceptable. Sure, I could, but someone who is just buying the game won't have access to the original, uncensored sprites. So I would like to know for certain why this was done and if possible, to restore it to how it was before (or have both versions included in the game data).

I would also like to know if any other sprites or other assets in RPG Maker MV (or other makers released through Degica/Kadokawa) have had artwork censored since their initial release. And for that matter, did this change also happen in the Japanese version or is it exclusive to the English/non-Japanese version?
 

Archeia

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I would also like to know if any other sprites or other assets in RPG Maker MV (or other makers released through Degica/Kadokawa) have had artwork censored since their initial release. And for that matter, did this change also happen in the Japanese version or is it exclusive to the English/non-Japanese version?
Both Japan and English versions have it.
 

mlogan

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Well, I would really appreciate if someone could find out for us and make an announcement about it.
Why? Why are a few pixels such a big deal? Someone in the company wanted it done, it was done. You want a sprite with more cleavage and leg showing? Make one. Heck, have a naked sprite in your game if you want. No one is censoring YOU so why is this such a big deal?
 

Little Paw

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Why? Why are a few pixels such a big deal? Someone in the company wanted it done, it was done. You want a sprite with more cleavage and leg showing? Make one. Heck, have a naked sprite in your game if you want. No one is censoring YOU so why is this such a big deal?
Um... Yes, this *is* absolutely censoring me. Or it would be, had I not had a backup of the image. As I said before, anyone who downloads the program after this update will only have the censored sprite. Censorship of any sort is not acceptable, no matter how small.
 

mlogan

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A company decided to change their product. It's not a big deal. Anyone buying the program in the future, if they decide this sprite is not racy enough, can find ways to obtain one. They can draw it themselves. They can request someone to draw it for them. Or heck, you can post the the sprite here if you wish, since you are soooooo concerned about people missing these few pixels. It's not something that needs an official signed statement and "answers".
 

bgillisp

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@Little Paw : Have you maybe considered that the artist might have just thought the old version looked bad and decided to redraw it? In other words it might not be a censorship thing but it could be because they think the new version looks better?
 

ZServ

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Um... Yes, this *is* absolutely censoring me. Or it would be, had I not had a backup of the image. As I said before, anyone who downloads the program after this update will only have the censored sprite. Censorship of any sort is not acceptable, no matter how small.
upload_2018-6-23_19-59-5.png

You're overreacting. You can downgrade. It is not censorship when the ability to downgrade is openly given.
 

OmnislashXX

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It's sometimes on sale on Steam. I got mine off of Humble Bundle for 75% off. You just need to be diligent and keep an eye on sites.

The censorship thing isn't that big of a deal. You can edit sprites- sometimes even applying nude patches if you know where to look.
 

Little Paw

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A company decided to change their product. It's not a big deal. Anyone buying the program in the future, if they decide this sprite is not racy enough, can find ways to obtain one. They can draw it themselves. They can request someone to draw it for them. Or heck, you can post the the sprite here if you wish, since you are soooooo concerned about people missing these few pixels. It's not something that needs an official signed statement and "answers".
It absolutely is a big deal. As I stated before, censorship is *never* acceptable, no matter how minor it is. And I do think it does need an official statement with answers because if there wasn't some sort of reason for this, it would not have been changed. The question is, was it a GOOD REASON or was it because some snowflake was offended at a "sexualized" sprite? For example, I could totally understand if there was some sort of CERO/ESRB/etc rule that had changed and they were specifically asked to change it in order for the program to continue to be allowed to be distributed. It would be quite another situation entirely if some random SJW sent a sternly-worded email to Kadokawa and demanded that it be changed because it's "objectifying" or some nonsense like that. That would *not* be an acceptable reason for changing it.

To make matters worse, in the opening post, this change was referred to as a "fix". It isn't a "fix" at all - it's censorship, and it seems to me like it was worded as such to try and sweep it under the rug and hope nobody noticed. It wasn't even stated what was "fixed" at all, and had someone not pointed it out to me, I would have probably never noticed myself. It isn't even about what was censored. I don't care that it's the cute elf girl. It could have been a guy for all I care. It's about the principle of it.

So I would actually like to know who I should be contacting in order to get the answers I seek. If you could direct me to which corporate contact email/page I should be visiting, I would appreciate it.

@Little Paw : Have you maybe considered that the artist might have just thought the old version looked bad and decided to redraw it? In other words it might not be a censorship thing but it could be because they think the new version looks better?
I don't think so. It would be a different story if say, they changed her hair from red to black. That would be something you could consider an artistic redesign choice. This is just blatantly covering up a "sexualized" character, aka censorship. There is really no argument that this is anything but censorship - the question really boils down to WHY this happened, at this point.

View attachment 92592

You're overreacting. You can downgrade. It is not censorship when the ability to downgrade is openly given.
But not everybody knows about that. That isn't really the solution to this problem anyway. I'm more concerned as to why this happened in the first place and who is responsible for it.
 

bgillisp

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Ok, first of all, this is not the first sprite that was fixed. I recall some back in 1.2 or so that were edited due to pixel errors. Also, a few of us have shown the two sprites to others, and the unanimous vote is the new 1.6.1 sprite is better than the old one, hands down.

However...I think you need to realize a few things here. RPGMaker is released internationally, which means it has to comply with ALL international laws for a PG13 product. If they don't, they can be told that they can no longer sell the product in those countries. Don't believe me? Look up how long it has taken Germany or Australia to get some M rated games, as said games did not comply with those countries laws. So while you may say censorship is not acceptable in any circumstance, if companies don't censor themselves, they will be banned from selling in those areas. And I don't think you want the company to go back to the days of only selling in Japan legally and nowhere else.

As for the rest...you do know you are the only one who cares about this. I have seen no other complaints about it anywhere (here or steam). Therefore I think you need to accept that you will not be getting an explanation for this one. Degica is under no obligation to get the artists to make an explanation every single time they edit or change something. So I think you need to put your energy elsewhere, like say writing your policitians to get censorship laws changed? Or better yet, why not put all this energy you are wasting complaining over a few pixels into making your game instead?
 

Little Paw

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Ok, first of all, this is not the first sprite that was fixed. I recall some back in 1.2 or so that were edited due to pixel errors. Also, a few of us have shown the two sprites to others, and the unanimous vote is the new 1.6.1 sprite is better than the old one, hands down.

However...I think you need to realize a few things here. RPGMaker is released internationally, which means it has to comply with ALL international laws for a PG13 product. If they don't, they can be told that they can no longer sell the product in those countries. Don't believe me? Look up how long it has taken Germany or Australia to get some M rated games, as said games did not comply with those countries laws. So while you may say censorship is not acceptable in any circumstance, if companies don't censor themselves, they will be banned from selling in those areas. And I don't think you want the company to go back to the days of only selling in Japan legally and nowhere else.

As for the rest...you do know you are the only one who cares about this. I have seen no other complaints about it anywhere (here or steam). Therefore I think you need to accept that you will not be getting an explanation for this one. Degica is under no obligation to get the artists to make an explanation every single time they edit or change something. So I think you need to put your energy elsewhere, like say writing your policitians to get censorship laws changed? Or better yet, why not put all this energy you are wasting complaining over a few pixels into making your game instead?
Again, this sprite was not "fixed". It was CENSORED. Huge difference.

Editing due to pixel errors is understandable. For example, in this very same update, the color palette of one of the sprites was changed to better reflect the color palette of the face graphic for that character. But this was, again, not being fixed due to an error. It was changed because either some regulation required it to be changed, or because some overly offended snowflake complained about it. I want to know which it was.

And again, if there were some sort of legal reason for the change, I could understand it. But Degica/Kadokawa has made no statement on the matter. And how do you expect anyone to be upset about it when it seems to me like it was very quietly changed so that people wouldn't even notice that it happened? I guarantee if a formal announcement was made about the change, there would be a lot more people complaining. I don't know if you got the memo, but actual gamers do not like censorship of the products they pay for. Especially so when they're censored after they've already laid down money for them and they're released as a "fix" without telling them that it was actually an act of blatant censorship.

But I will tell you one thing, at the very least, I do not support censorship of any kind, and I will NOT be purchasing ANY MORE products by Degica/Kadokawa until a good explanation is given for this.
 

Ksi

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Oh, good. Peace at last.

Personally I prefer the old version of the sprite but I'm not gonna whine about it being more covered up because now we have two versions of a cute sprite. :shrug:

(Also because I'm not the type to complain about stuff like this when it's out there to grab if you really want it.)
 
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