Changes to events only take effect after starting a new game

[Raen Andaleio]

Hello,

I've only just recently noticed this, and I'm certain it wasn't like that before.
Basically, when I test something that is a bit further into the game, I go there, save and then test. If I need to change anything, I do that. Now I noticed that if I change an event and then load a savegame, the changes do not take effect. In fact, I need to start a new game for the changes to actually become visible. I know it's always been like that for enemies, but it certainly didn't behave like this when I started developing my game.
For example: I changed the location of a "transfer player" but it still transfers the player to the original location unless I start a new game. I deleted an event, but it's still there unless I start a new game. An event is supposed to show only when a switch is set. But it ignores the switch unless I start a new game.
It's an absolute nightmare to test now. I either have to play for like an hour to get to the location where I want to test, or I have to meticulously set all switches, variables and stuff that would be set along the way, bring the character to the proper level and all that manually. Basically testing now takes a lot more time and effort.
It also means that once it's released and I release an update, players will not be able to keep their savegames because even if I just do small stuff like move an event, they will have to start a new game for it to take effect.
I don't know why it suddenly is that way. Did they change that in an update? Is there a setting I can change so stuff is not as persistent in savegames?

 

[ShadowDragon]

if you make a save file, during test game, new changes wont work on the old save.

if the changes are minor, you can how update the save file through a common event (not sure how though)
but if you make major changes like new maps, new enemies, new plugins adding etc, than a new game MUST be forces
so to speak.

Im not entirely sure how to update the old save file for those minor changes like replace transfer event, tiny adjustment to maps
that already exist etc. (I can look into that how its done) but all things besides that is a new start needed.

 

[Raen Andaleio]

@ShadowDragon So they did change that then? Because that wasn't necessary before. I know that because I once shifted an entire map one square and forgot to adjust a teleport, so the player, a beta tester, ended up in a wall. I sent him an updated version of the game and he just copied his old save file over. It worked fine.
Well, if you could find out how, that would be awesome. I'll try to find out, too. It would be a huge help if at least I could make changes to the maps/events without having to start a new game for testing.

 

[ShadowDragon]

it isn't possible by default because it would basicly "read" teh old save file to update it inside the common event

all I know its possible as long it is for minor changes, new plugin and new map = major
so in that case, YOU MUST restart the game from a new save file while old save file dont read those changes.

Im looking for it how its done. (unless someone is faster than me though)

 

[Bex]

Its told back in vx , vx-ace, i believe also xp and now mv: Dont use old safe files for gametesting, bugs occur because of
data the safefile contains and data which is missing and data which is different than it should be. Set your own startpoint and use F9 to open a console to manipulate all switches and variables like u need them while testplay. This dont work with projects that still run an old mv version javascript library.Shift for running through non passable maptiles.
This Safefile stuff is nothing new, trust me, it was the cause of the problem in various cases.

 

[Raen Andaleio]

@ShadowDragon Hold it. I should have done this before, but since I didn't want to mess with my current project, I created a new one to test editing savegames and stuff. And I noticed it doesn't occur there. It may be caused by a plugin instead. I'll check that now.

@Bex Not for database stuff like skills, enemies, items and stuff, I'm aware of that. But all I'm doing is moving events on the map. And it most definitely didn't require a new game for that.

Edit: Ok, it's actually the random map generator by Biterkid (Lantiz). In fact, it's the btr_map_core.js that does it. If I turn that one off, changes to the map/events take effect even if I load an old save file. From what I can see with my limited JS knowledge, the plugin stores the maps into the save file for some reason - maybe to remember if it was visited before. Too bad the plugin is no longer supported, and I'm not good enough a programmer to alter it. But at least I know what's wrong now.

Sorry for causing a fuss. I didn't actually realize that plugins can alter save files, so I didn't expect a plugin to cause this in the first place. MV plugins are even more powerful than I thought.

 

[Bex]

You are right, events seem to work properly.
Sadly that the Databse dont work(did not test myself yet), else you could have a browser game and make regularly updates and the "safe files" would still work.
Thanks for bringing attention to this.

 

[Raen Andaleio]

@Bex The thing about the database is indeed not new, you're right about that. If you change stuff like enemies, the changes will only take effect if you start a new game. I used VX Ace before and it's been like that there, too. I don't really understand why they deem it necessary to store that information in the save files, but I'm sure they have their reasons. Maybe it's to avoid some sort of compatibility issues.

 

[Shaz]

There is a version id for your game. Every time you change something in the editor and save the game, the version id increments. When you play and save, it saves the current version id. Then when you load a saved game, it checks to see if the version id of the save file is the same as the version id of the game. If it's not (you've updated the game), it reloads the current map.

So it SHOULD reload and pick up your map changes (not necessarily certain database changes, but it should get the map changes).

If this is not happening for you, it is possible that you have a plugin that removes that functionality. If you have some kind of script editor, do a global search for Scene_Load.prototype.reloadMapIfUpdated and see if any of them overwrite that function.

 

[Raen Andaleio]

@Shaz I identified btr_map_core.js to cause the problem. It doesn't contain the function you mentioned, but it seems to write map-related stuff into the save file. At least it refers to the save file.
For example:

File.saveFile($gameTemp._cacheData[mapId], $gameMap.getMapName(mapId));

Now, my understanding of scripting for RPG Maker is very limited, but unless I'm completely mistaken, since it creates random maps, this is in case the player is on a randomly generated map and saves the game. Normally, when reloading the game, the map would be randomly generated again. For this not to happen, it saves the current map in the save file, so it doesn't change when the player loads it again.
The problem is simply that it doesn't differentiate between a randomly generated map and a normal one. I may be completely mistaken here, but that would at least make sense to me.

 

[Shaz]

That may be it. What do you mean "randomly generated"? Is it a map you have in the editor, and what changes are you making to it? Can you elaborate a little more on how this is set up, what you're changing, etc? And can you provide a link to the plugin as it's the loading, not the saving, that causes the issue.

 

[Engr. Adiktuzmiko]

@Bex The thing about the database is indeed not new, you're right about that. If you change stuff like enemies, the changes will only take effect if you start a new game. I used VX Ace before and it's been like that there, too. I don't really understand why they deem it necessary to store that information in the save files, but I'm sure they have their reasons. Maybe it's to avoid some sort of compatibility issues.

Ive been using VX Ace since long ago up to now and enemy data do update on it even on save files made before the update. Most database items aren't saved in the save files, only the already initialized actors are saved due to the game adding some run specific data to them (like the param plus arrays etc). All other database data are obtained directly from the database and not on the save file. On MV that's also the same... Unless of course you have a plugin that saves those data into the save file...

Anyway, given that you're using a plugin that randomly generates maps, its quite logical that it does the save map data and doesnt reload it even upon version change since the generated map data is specific to the generation procedure so there is actually nothing to reload (map-wise anyway)..

You would need to request an edit so that events would still reload even on the generated maps or only on non-generated maps if that's what you need. Coding wise, that should be easy to add as its just a flag and a check.

 

[Raen Andaleio]

@Shaz I'm working on a dungeon crawler, and dungeon crawlers live from randomization. So I tried to randomize as much as possible. This plugin actually creates random maps. You just input the tiles and events you want used, and which algorithm. This is the plugin I'm using. https://forums.rpgmakerweb.com/index.php?threads/procedural-maps-generator.83242/
The map I'm changing, however, is not a random generated one, it is a village map done in the editor.

@Engr. Adiktuzmiko Hm, it's possible, I never tested it in VX Ace. I just accepted it. I couldn't check the plugins that alter the enemies because I know even less about RGSS3 than I know about MV's JS.
Requesting an edit is probably not worth it. Biterkid has discontinued the plugin (which is a shame because out of the ones I tried it's the only one I could get to work, and it's actually quite good) and someone else would have to burrow into the code first.